Patty Jenkins is high on life right now because she just directed one of the hottest independent films to ever star a famous actress. Its Monster starring Charlize Theron and Christina Ricci.
Monster is the story of Aileen Wuornos a highway prostitute in Florida who falls in love with a young woman named Selby Wall and then is raped by her next john who she then murders and robs. Spurred on by Selby and the promise of the new life she could have with the money she steals she murders six more johns before she is captured and convicted. Jenkins is a first time director but she proves herself to be a master of character study because the Aileen Wuornos that she and Charlize created together is probably the best performance you will see by an actor this year. In fact there is a lot of buzz around the possibility of Oscar nomination for Charlize, which would be unheard of because of her previous roles.
But Jenkins contribution of course cant be counted out. She studied painting at Cooper Union before being accepted into the experimental film program at the American Film Institute, which also spawned David Lynch. Jenkins got to create Monster with the actresses she always dreamed of having in the role and one of her childhood idols Steve Perry of Journey who contributed a song to the soundtrack.
She first got involved with Aileen Wuornos after seeing her on television then corresponding with her through mail, she was open and honest with Wuornos by telling her upfront that she wanted to make an honest portrayal of her on film. It is a shame that Wuornos was executed before she got to see the film because she had a shitty life of abuse and heartache but now she will be remembered forever.
Check out the website for Monster.
Daniel Robert Epstein: Hello Patty. I saw the movie with my very cynical friend and we both loved it.
Patty Jenkins: Thats so good to hear. The movie is doing really well in the New York theatres.
DRE: Yeah I saw posters on top of the yellow cabs.
PJ: Im originally from New York and when I saw the movie on top of cabs I thought that was the best. So hilarious.
DRE: I read you first discovered Aileen Wuornos while watching her trail on television.
PJ: Yeah I saw her when the story broke and watched the news when the story broke. I was always struck by how riveting it was. It was a really difficult story to sum up in any cut and dry way even though that was what everyone was trying to do. Then it just lingered with me over the years. I wasnt a filmmaker when I first saw her but I became one later on. I wasnt thinking about doing her film but I have found notes from five years ago where I wrote the line A Raging Bull style film about Aileen Wuornos. It had crossed my mind but I was planning on doing other things but I was always surprised that no one had done her story really well. The opportunity came all at once when I mentioned to somebody that I always wanted to do that story to my producing partner. He said I should because thats a really easy thing to get funded right now. The next thing I knew I was doing it.
DRE: There does seem to be a large amount of lower budgeted movies straight to DVD at Blockbuster based on real life serial killers.
PJ: Yes and that was completely initiated the thought process. As a first time filmmaker thats what I was aiming for. A Roger Corman style education. I thought it would be an interesting opportunity to do a character film.
DRE: How did the script get to Charlize Theron?
PJ: I had initiated writing it based on that concept, had some meetings and very quickly realized that I wasnt interested in making the film that way after all. The second I started working on it I realized that this was no joke, she is a human being and I was talking to her. I needed to not be taking notes from anybody who did make the same commitment to her and to the truth in my own heart. So I ended up writing it on my own and walked away from deals with Blockbuster style people effectively shutting those doors. I told my producing partner Brad Wyman that I was walking away from those deals and he said to do whatever I think is right and that I should give him the script when I was done. I gave him the script and he sent it out to a bunch a production companies. We received several offers for one million negative pickup so they knew they could make their money back especially since it was a serial killer movie. Then we hired a casting director, who sent the script and everything went crazy. Out of nowhere the level of talent went from B to A then by week three I got to a place where I knew I was going to be able to get the people I wanted.
DRE: This kind of role isnt dissimilar to the reason Tom Hanks wanted to do Road to Perdition. He was a good loving father who was also a mob assassin. Like Monster its the kind of roles actors like to play. Did you figure that out once all these actresses wanted to do it?
PJ: I did then but its such an interesting ball of momentum. If you ever try to plan something out the way this did I dont know how you would do it because I was aiming so low all along. But then in my heart I believed in the film. I had never made a feature film so I didnt realize it. So many people disliked this woman and thought she was so hideously ugly that even when I would talk about they would go Echh. So I thought people wouldnt want to play her. I was shocked. A lot of them told me that actresses are looking for three-dimensional roles. That was a total education to me.
DRE: Your casting was interesting because normally Christina Ricci might be playing the killer and Charlize the girlfriend.
PJ: Its funny because I dont see either of them that way but I dont know why. For whatever reason we all have these different perceptions of people.
DRE: Ive read so much about Charlize and her experience with the film. Lets talk about your decision to cast Christina.
PJ: Its one of the saddest things in the world, even though its fine, that so much attention is going to how incredible Charlize is. The thing about Christina and what people dont realize is that her performance rests completely on Christinas performance. If you didnt have Christina there it wouldnt have happened. I knew what we needed out of Selby. It was someone who was incredibly nave, sweet and able to convey that character who could be an incredibly rich character without a lot of dialogue. There arent a lot of people with that. Charlize is a formidable personality so there are a lot of women who are sweet and quiet that would be crushed by that. When you look at those two people next to one another you cant tell that this quiet meek girl would ever convince that girl to do anything. It was this willful energy that could also sell the inability to understand what the gravity of the situation was. When I thought about that I think of Christina because she has played that character powerfully many times. I didnt think we would get her and shocked we did because its such a glory-less role for her particularly when she was being offered everything in the whole world. I remember at the time when we wanted to go to her everyone said we were one of about thirty movies who are walking around saying they have her.
DRE: Right, this was two years ago when she had four movies at Sundance at the time.
PJ: Yeah and when I told people I thought we were getting they were like Yeah right. Nobody wanted her to do the movie but she said yes because she liked the story. In a way its a terrible role for her to take but yet she was just pivotal in making everything that happened possible.
DRE: Im a big fan of character actors and each john is a big time character actor that often plays bad guys.
PJ: I love that you know that, thank you.
DRE: You dont get much better than Pruitt Taylor Vince [Stuttering john]. What was the process for casting them? Do you specifically want them?
PJ: Oh yeah. Scott Wilson, Lee Tergesen and Pruitt were all people who I was super familiar with. Even when I wrote the scene I knew Pruitt was the person who could pull it off. His agent passed on it because it was only once scene so Charlize called him and begged him to do it because they were friends and had worked together before. Scott Wilson was also someone that a role this small was beneath him but it was such an important role, the last murder. Then so many of the other actors like Marco St. John and Marc Macaulay who were all southern actors that the Florida casting director brought in. All those guys work on every interesting movie that goes down south. They were amazing because they had such a finger on Florida citizens.
DRE: I love Lee Tergesen [most famous as Tobias Beecher on HBOs Oz]. Im worried about him getting stuck in bad guy roles.
PJ: Me too, he was one of the very few people that I didnt go out of my way to cast against type. Its boring casting in that you know that guy can do it. I needed to shoot that scene in a half a night. More than anything I was very worried about having an actor who would be afraid to go where the character needed to go.
DRE: He is definitely not.
PJ: Right. I knew he could be comfortable with it and be acting as well. We could talk on a more subtle level of acting than just having to overcome the sheer graphic concept of what is happening. Hes done it a million times and he has that nice/scary guy thing. Hes so fucking brilliant and was so amazing to watch because he was able to convince her that he was nice enough for her to get into the car.
DRE: Right hookers have strong radars for that sort of thing.
PJ: Very strong so to have someone come in and play scary would have been a disaster. Aileen Wuornos would have never stayed in the car.
DRE: It seems like his character was going to go on to become a serial killer himself. Was that something that was documented?
PJ: Heres what it is well documented. I had a voice over in the film that I cut out that mentioned that there was a guy going around killing hookers. There was a serial killer killing hookers around the area at the exact same time she started killing people. I dont think the first john she killed was him, but I do think that was in her mind and it ended up that he was a convicted rapist who served time for aggravated assault. That information does exist but whether he was the guy, who knows.
DRE: I know there is this story where you saw The Devils Advocate late one night but what convinced you that Charlize could do it? Did she do a good rehearsal?
PJ: Its a leap of faith at that point because it was almost futile to do auditions for actors like her. Of course shes beautiful but you cant walk in and nail a part like this and actors like her dont do auditions anyway. She was who I wanted then when it got to a place for other actresses to do it I said that we should just get a no from Charlize in the first place. That was scary only because I had all these instincts about her but I didnt know her. Simultaneously its great to get an actress like her because that is who you believe you want but you could be wrong and that person could get you fired. I just looked at all of her films and every single one of them I could even sort of tell she didnt like her role at a certain point but you can see she never checked out, never gave you a tongue in cheek nod and stayed totally committed. I needed that level of commitment.
DRE: When did you start corresponding with Aileen Wuornos?
PJ: About March 2001.
DRE: Did you do it on a whim?
PJ: No as soon as I decided that I was going to do the film I wrote to her and told her what I planned to do. The first one I wrote to her was the most clear. I wrote that I felt badly that she had so much sympathy from people that want to deny what happened and say youre a feminist hero and that youve been completely two dimensionalized by the people on the other side. I think there is a story in between and that I wouldnt lie to her because I think there is a story in-between. She wrote me back and we started writing to each other mostly negotiating a future relationship that never got a chance to happen. Most of our letters were information exchanging about what we wanted form each other. Then out of nowhere her execution was scheduled and it became distasteful for me to pursue it anymore. So I wrote her a final letter saying that if she wants me to come down there and interview you for any reason I will but beyond that forget it and if you need anything or a lawyer for appeal please ask. The night before she was executed her best friend was with her and Aileen took a chance and decided to open up this archive of letters that no one had seen before. It was letters from her best friend and every letter that had been written to her and letters between her and her girlfriend. Oddly and sadly I dont think we would have ever gotten to know Aileen in person the way we got to know her in those letters. I dont know if she would have opened them up to us if she had lived so its this strange uncomfortable thing.
DRE: She did murder the men that didnt attack her. Do you think she shouldnt have been executed?
PJ: No there was no two ways about it. In any state with the death penalty she was going to be executed whether I think that system works or is another thing. I have a really strange opinion of the death penalty, which is not something you could legislate so its irrelevant. I believe that if someone rapes someones child and the father shoots that guy thats fine.
DRE: More justice based.
PJ: If someone ever hurt my mother or my children I would want to kill them. The idea of doing through this long complicated system Im very mistrustful of. Even the fact that her first trial went the way that it did where she said he raped her but the fact that she had killed seven people meant that no one ever dug up that he had served eight years in prison for aggravated rape. That makes me freak out that people are on death row and the most obvious and easy to access pieces of information are never brought to their defense. But she killed seven people where they have the death penalty. She wanted to be executed which is odd.
DRE: So the real Selby refused to meet with you or you didnt contact her?
PJ: I didnt contact her for a couple of reasons. I knew she didnt want anything to do with the story and she was trying to distance herself form it by moving away and trying to hide her identity a bit. Second of all I am not the kind of person who is comfortable making friends with people and then portraying them in a negative light. I was confident to tell Aileen what I was going to do with the film and I didnt want to get to know the real Selby because I wanted to be able to portray her as a bit of a coward.
DRE: How was the shooting?
PJ: It was 29 days but it was nothing like the out of control music videos I have worked on before. It was like a steamship because it was really on track but brutal in the hours. Everyone got along and was very passionate which was lucky. Unlike most low budget productions there was no ego because what was going on was so serious. So it was nice that way but we were doing these murder scenes so true to life.
DRE: Did you shoot in places where the stuff really took place?
PJ: Lots of them. The bar and the people in the bar were really her friends. We didnt go find the field where she killed somebody but we did shoot right off the highway and I wouldnt be surprised if they were the same highways she pulled over with johns. Even the jail cell we shot in accidentally turned out to be one of the jail cells she was held in.
DRE: But Charlize isnt like Daniel Day Lewis. She wouldnt turn into Aileen.
PJ: No she is not the kind of actor that shows up in character. But when the camera was rolling she would become that person to the point that it would freak me out. Even just walking around set trying to be Charlize but the look in her eyes.
DRE: How personal was this movie for you?
PJ: Not personal in any literal fashion. It became incredibly personal in the way that any great story can be when you find ways to ground your own understanding of that persons emotions in your own life. On the surface its not personal at all; I have not been raped or sexually abused in my life. I have never been a prostitute or murdered anyone or been close to anyone that has.
DRE: This is on record now.
PJ: Well I have [laughs] but please keep that off the record.
I have had rage and tragedy in my life so it became incredibly personal for me. Life is the same for most people but her life had these extreme events that you could put your finger on but a lot of her emotions were universal. It became a powerful journey to me that stepping out of it on the other side and have it get so much attention was not something we ever had the luxury of thinking about. So its just become this incredible surprise.
DRE: Where does your rage come from?
PJ: I had a lot of people close to me die when I was younger so I think a lot of my rage comes from that. I think what grounds me to the story is that suffering tragedies in my youth made see horrible things happen to people that dont deserve it while the rest of the world that hasnt had bad things happen to them protect themselves intellectually by the last line in the film Everything happens for a reason. No you can be a child, have horrible things happen and theres no justice. It may mean that you cant go to college because your parents are dead. Im not an incredibly rageful person but I do understand there is a desire for people to distance themselves from tragedy and sum it up neatly because they dont think it will happen to them.
DRE: Did you get to hang with Steve Perry that much?
PJ: Oh yeah all the time. He became one of my closest friends. Thats so insane because wanting Charlize and getting her was surreal enough. But during the shooting of the movie everyone was saying that we wouldnt get that song [Journeys "Don't Stop Believin] and we shot that scene to the song. The producers watched the dailies and said that we had to get that song because it was so good in the scene. We spent all these months just speculating where Steve Perry is. We heard that he was a born again Christian and that hes so difficult. Just like Charlize it got to a point where we had to go for it. Steve just shows up and asks us what we needed and how he could help.
DRE: Where did you grow up?
PJ: Because my father was a fighter pilot we lived All over the world before I was six, then we moved to Kansas and then to New York and then England and Washington DC. Then I went to Cooper Union for college.
DRE: What did you study?
PJ: I studied painting because when I was living in Kansas I was definitely gravitating towards the arts and music but I didnt want to be a musician or the arts. In the Midwest they tell you that you could be a graphic artist or a fine artist. It never occurred to me to be a filmmaker. I couldnt afford to go to college then I heard about Cooper Union, which was free if you got in. So it became my goal in life to get into Cooper Union.
DRE: You went to AFI and they love painters there. David Lynch went there as well.
PJ: Yes its a very similar track. As soon as I got there I took an experimental film class and it was everything.
DRE: And it doesnt have to make sense.
PJ: Yes [laughs]. I started making narrative films which is so funny because I wanted to be a narrative filmmaker. All my teachers just shrugged their shoulders and said they didnt know what to tell me.
DRE: There is all this buzz around Charlize and she totally deserves it. But did you ever think, hey I wrote the script and came up with the character.
PJ: That is a hard answer to have. First of all she is incredible to the point where I couldnt believe it on set. But it is a performance film, whatever accolades there I knew it was a character and the best thing to happen to me is to get a great performance. Im amazed weve gotten as much attention as we have. Im sort of mistrustful of awards proceedings. Did I ever expect to be nominated for best director? No Im just amazed people have even heard of it.
DRE: What about a first time director directing a sex scene between two famous actresses?
PJ: It was the most stressful thing Ive ever done in my life. Of everything I did it was the most stressful. In the end Im glad I went with my instincts. I gave myself pneumonia from stressing over it. The actors just look at you and say, what do you want us to do physically. I had to tell one to touch the other one this way and I would have to go behind the monitor and have a breakdown. The only way that a lesbian scene between the two attractive actresses is going to happen is that someone has to be the pervert here and its not going to be me or them. You need somebody to say, we want to see this. As soon as we started we all started laughing because it was so ridiculous. Then the camera would roll and they would turn it on. Afterwards Charlize said It was one of the most comfortable sex scenes she had done because the laughing made it less invasive. When shes done sex scenes with men everyone takes it so seriously it feels like you actually have to have sex with the guy. I hated it and I never want to direct a sex scene again.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Monster is the story of Aileen Wuornos a highway prostitute in Florida who falls in love with a young woman named Selby Wall and then is raped by her next john who she then murders and robs. Spurred on by Selby and the promise of the new life she could have with the money she steals she murders six more johns before she is captured and convicted. Jenkins is a first time director but she proves herself to be a master of character study because the Aileen Wuornos that she and Charlize created together is probably the best performance you will see by an actor this year. In fact there is a lot of buzz around the possibility of Oscar nomination for Charlize, which would be unheard of because of her previous roles.
But Jenkins contribution of course cant be counted out. She studied painting at Cooper Union before being accepted into the experimental film program at the American Film Institute, which also spawned David Lynch. Jenkins got to create Monster with the actresses she always dreamed of having in the role and one of her childhood idols Steve Perry of Journey who contributed a song to the soundtrack.
She first got involved with Aileen Wuornos after seeing her on television then corresponding with her through mail, she was open and honest with Wuornos by telling her upfront that she wanted to make an honest portrayal of her on film. It is a shame that Wuornos was executed before she got to see the film because she had a shitty life of abuse and heartache but now she will be remembered forever.
Check out the website for Monster.
Daniel Robert Epstein: Hello Patty. I saw the movie with my very cynical friend and we both loved it.
Patty Jenkins: Thats so good to hear. The movie is doing really well in the New York theatres.
DRE: Yeah I saw posters on top of the yellow cabs.
PJ: Im originally from New York and when I saw the movie on top of cabs I thought that was the best. So hilarious.
DRE: I read you first discovered Aileen Wuornos while watching her trail on television.
PJ: Yeah I saw her when the story broke and watched the news when the story broke. I was always struck by how riveting it was. It was a really difficult story to sum up in any cut and dry way even though that was what everyone was trying to do. Then it just lingered with me over the years. I wasnt a filmmaker when I first saw her but I became one later on. I wasnt thinking about doing her film but I have found notes from five years ago where I wrote the line A Raging Bull style film about Aileen Wuornos. It had crossed my mind but I was planning on doing other things but I was always surprised that no one had done her story really well. The opportunity came all at once when I mentioned to somebody that I always wanted to do that story to my producing partner. He said I should because thats a really easy thing to get funded right now. The next thing I knew I was doing it.
DRE: There does seem to be a large amount of lower budgeted movies straight to DVD at Blockbuster based on real life serial killers.
PJ: Yes and that was completely initiated the thought process. As a first time filmmaker thats what I was aiming for. A Roger Corman style education. I thought it would be an interesting opportunity to do a character film.
DRE: How did the script get to Charlize Theron?
PJ: I had initiated writing it based on that concept, had some meetings and very quickly realized that I wasnt interested in making the film that way after all. The second I started working on it I realized that this was no joke, she is a human being and I was talking to her. I needed to not be taking notes from anybody who did make the same commitment to her and to the truth in my own heart. So I ended up writing it on my own and walked away from deals with Blockbuster style people effectively shutting those doors. I told my producing partner Brad Wyman that I was walking away from those deals and he said to do whatever I think is right and that I should give him the script when I was done. I gave him the script and he sent it out to a bunch a production companies. We received several offers for one million negative pickup so they knew they could make their money back especially since it was a serial killer movie. Then we hired a casting director, who sent the script and everything went crazy. Out of nowhere the level of talent went from B to A then by week three I got to a place where I knew I was going to be able to get the people I wanted.
DRE: This kind of role isnt dissimilar to the reason Tom Hanks wanted to do Road to Perdition. He was a good loving father who was also a mob assassin. Like Monster its the kind of roles actors like to play. Did you figure that out once all these actresses wanted to do it?
PJ: I did then but its such an interesting ball of momentum. If you ever try to plan something out the way this did I dont know how you would do it because I was aiming so low all along. But then in my heart I believed in the film. I had never made a feature film so I didnt realize it. So many people disliked this woman and thought she was so hideously ugly that even when I would talk about they would go Echh. So I thought people wouldnt want to play her. I was shocked. A lot of them told me that actresses are looking for three-dimensional roles. That was a total education to me.
DRE: Your casting was interesting because normally Christina Ricci might be playing the killer and Charlize the girlfriend.
PJ: Its funny because I dont see either of them that way but I dont know why. For whatever reason we all have these different perceptions of people.
DRE: Ive read so much about Charlize and her experience with the film. Lets talk about your decision to cast Christina.
PJ: Its one of the saddest things in the world, even though its fine, that so much attention is going to how incredible Charlize is. The thing about Christina and what people dont realize is that her performance rests completely on Christinas performance. If you didnt have Christina there it wouldnt have happened. I knew what we needed out of Selby. It was someone who was incredibly nave, sweet and able to convey that character who could be an incredibly rich character without a lot of dialogue. There arent a lot of people with that. Charlize is a formidable personality so there are a lot of women who are sweet and quiet that would be crushed by that. When you look at those two people next to one another you cant tell that this quiet meek girl would ever convince that girl to do anything. It was this willful energy that could also sell the inability to understand what the gravity of the situation was. When I thought about that I think of Christina because she has played that character powerfully many times. I didnt think we would get her and shocked we did because its such a glory-less role for her particularly when she was being offered everything in the whole world. I remember at the time when we wanted to go to her everyone said we were one of about thirty movies who are walking around saying they have her.
DRE: Right, this was two years ago when she had four movies at Sundance at the time.
PJ: Yeah and when I told people I thought we were getting they were like Yeah right. Nobody wanted her to do the movie but she said yes because she liked the story. In a way its a terrible role for her to take but yet she was just pivotal in making everything that happened possible.
DRE: Im a big fan of character actors and each john is a big time character actor that often plays bad guys.
PJ: I love that you know that, thank you.
DRE: You dont get much better than Pruitt Taylor Vince [Stuttering john]. What was the process for casting them? Do you specifically want them?
PJ: Oh yeah. Scott Wilson, Lee Tergesen and Pruitt were all people who I was super familiar with. Even when I wrote the scene I knew Pruitt was the person who could pull it off. His agent passed on it because it was only once scene so Charlize called him and begged him to do it because they were friends and had worked together before. Scott Wilson was also someone that a role this small was beneath him but it was such an important role, the last murder. Then so many of the other actors like Marco St. John and Marc Macaulay who were all southern actors that the Florida casting director brought in. All those guys work on every interesting movie that goes down south. They were amazing because they had such a finger on Florida citizens.
DRE: I love Lee Tergesen [most famous as Tobias Beecher on HBOs Oz]. Im worried about him getting stuck in bad guy roles.
PJ: Me too, he was one of the very few people that I didnt go out of my way to cast against type. Its boring casting in that you know that guy can do it. I needed to shoot that scene in a half a night. More than anything I was very worried about having an actor who would be afraid to go where the character needed to go.
DRE: He is definitely not.
PJ: Right. I knew he could be comfortable with it and be acting as well. We could talk on a more subtle level of acting than just having to overcome the sheer graphic concept of what is happening. Hes done it a million times and he has that nice/scary guy thing. Hes so fucking brilliant and was so amazing to watch because he was able to convince her that he was nice enough for her to get into the car.
DRE: Right hookers have strong radars for that sort of thing.
PJ: Very strong so to have someone come in and play scary would have been a disaster. Aileen Wuornos would have never stayed in the car.
DRE: It seems like his character was going to go on to become a serial killer himself. Was that something that was documented?
PJ: Heres what it is well documented. I had a voice over in the film that I cut out that mentioned that there was a guy going around killing hookers. There was a serial killer killing hookers around the area at the exact same time she started killing people. I dont think the first john she killed was him, but I do think that was in her mind and it ended up that he was a convicted rapist who served time for aggravated assault. That information does exist but whether he was the guy, who knows.
DRE: I know there is this story where you saw The Devils Advocate late one night but what convinced you that Charlize could do it? Did she do a good rehearsal?
PJ: Its a leap of faith at that point because it was almost futile to do auditions for actors like her. Of course shes beautiful but you cant walk in and nail a part like this and actors like her dont do auditions anyway. She was who I wanted then when it got to a place for other actresses to do it I said that we should just get a no from Charlize in the first place. That was scary only because I had all these instincts about her but I didnt know her. Simultaneously its great to get an actress like her because that is who you believe you want but you could be wrong and that person could get you fired. I just looked at all of her films and every single one of them I could even sort of tell she didnt like her role at a certain point but you can see she never checked out, never gave you a tongue in cheek nod and stayed totally committed. I needed that level of commitment.
DRE: When did you start corresponding with Aileen Wuornos?
PJ: About March 2001.
DRE: Did you do it on a whim?
PJ: No as soon as I decided that I was going to do the film I wrote to her and told her what I planned to do. The first one I wrote to her was the most clear. I wrote that I felt badly that she had so much sympathy from people that want to deny what happened and say youre a feminist hero and that youve been completely two dimensionalized by the people on the other side. I think there is a story in between and that I wouldnt lie to her because I think there is a story in-between. She wrote me back and we started writing to each other mostly negotiating a future relationship that never got a chance to happen. Most of our letters were information exchanging about what we wanted form each other. Then out of nowhere her execution was scheduled and it became distasteful for me to pursue it anymore. So I wrote her a final letter saying that if she wants me to come down there and interview you for any reason I will but beyond that forget it and if you need anything or a lawyer for appeal please ask. The night before she was executed her best friend was with her and Aileen took a chance and decided to open up this archive of letters that no one had seen before. It was letters from her best friend and every letter that had been written to her and letters between her and her girlfriend. Oddly and sadly I dont think we would have ever gotten to know Aileen in person the way we got to know her in those letters. I dont know if she would have opened them up to us if she had lived so its this strange uncomfortable thing.
DRE: She did murder the men that didnt attack her. Do you think she shouldnt have been executed?
PJ: No there was no two ways about it. In any state with the death penalty she was going to be executed whether I think that system works or is another thing. I have a really strange opinion of the death penalty, which is not something you could legislate so its irrelevant. I believe that if someone rapes someones child and the father shoots that guy thats fine.
DRE: More justice based.
PJ: If someone ever hurt my mother or my children I would want to kill them. The idea of doing through this long complicated system Im very mistrustful of. Even the fact that her first trial went the way that it did where she said he raped her but the fact that she had killed seven people meant that no one ever dug up that he had served eight years in prison for aggravated rape. That makes me freak out that people are on death row and the most obvious and easy to access pieces of information are never brought to their defense. But she killed seven people where they have the death penalty. She wanted to be executed which is odd.
DRE: So the real Selby refused to meet with you or you didnt contact her?
PJ: I didnt contact her for a couple of reasons. I knew she didnt want anything to do with the story and she was trying to distance herself form it by moving away and trying to hide her identity a bit. Second of all I am not the kind of person who is comfortable making friends with people and then portraying them in a negative light. I was confident to tell Aileen what I was going to do with the film and I didnt want to get to know the real Selby because I wanted to be able to portray her as a bit of a coward.
DRE: How was the shooting?
PJ: It was 29 days but it was nothing like the out of control music videos I have worked on before. It was like a steamship because it was really on track but brutal in the hours. Everyone got along and was very passionate which was lucky. Unlike most low budget productions there was no ego because what was going on was so serious. So it was nice that way but we were doing these murder scenes so true to life.
DRE: Did you shoot in places where the stuff really took place?
PJ: Lots of them. The bar and the people in the bar were really her friends. We didnt go find the field where she killed somebody but we did shoot right off the highway and I wouldnt be surprised if they were the same highways she pulled over with johns. Even the jail cell we shot in accidentally turned out to be one of the jail cells she was held in.
DRE: But Charlize isnt like Daniel Day Lewis. She wouldnt turn into Aileen.
PJ: No she is not the kind of actor that shows up in character. But when the camera was rolling she would become that person to the point that it would freak me out. Even just walking around set trying to be Charlize but the look in her eyes.
DRE: How personal was this movie for you?
PJ: Not personal in any literal fashion. It became incredibly personal in the way that any great story can be when you find ways to ground your own understanding of that persons emotions in your own life. On the surface its not personal at all; I have not been raped or sexually abused in my life. I have never been a prostitute or murdered anyone or been close to anyone that has.
DRE: This is on record now.
PJ: Well I have [laughs] but please keep that off the record.
I have had rage and tragedy in my life so it became incredibly personal for me. Life is the same for most people but her life had these extreme events that you could put your finger on but a lot of her emotions were universal. It became a powerful journey to me that stepping out of it on the other side and have it get so much attention was not something we ever had the luxury of thinking about. So its just become this incredible surprise.
DRE: Where does your rage come from?
PJ: I had a lot of people close to me die when I was younger so I think a lot of my rage comes from that. I think what grounds me to the story is that suffering tragedies in my youth made see horrible things happen to people that dont deserve it while the rest of the world that hasnt had bad things happen to them protect themselves intellectually by the last line in the film Everything happens for a reason. No you can be a child, have horrible things happen and theres no justice. It may mean that you cant go to college because your parents are dead. Im not an incredibly rageful person but I do understand there is a desire for people to distance themselves from tragedy and sum it up neatly because they dont think it will happen to them.
DRE: Did you get to hang with Steve Perry that much?
PJ: Oh yeah all the time. He became one of my closest friends. Thats so insane because wanting Charlize and getting her was surreal enough. But during the shooting of the movie everyone was saying that we wouldnt get that song [Journeys "Don't Stop Believin] and we shot that scene to the song. The producers watched the dailies and said that we had to get that song because it was so good in the scene. We spent all these months just speculating where Steve Perry is. We heard that he was a born again Christian and that hes so difficult. Just like Charlize it got to a point where we had to go for it. Steve just shows up and asks us what we needed and how he could help.
DRE: Where did you grow up?
PJ: Because my father was a fighter pilot we lived All over the world before I was six, then we moved to Kansas and then to New York and then England and Washington DC. Then I went to Cooper Union for college.
DRE: What did you study?
PJ: I studied painting because when I was living in Kansas I was definitely gravitating towards the arts and music but I didnt want to be a musician or the arts. In the Midwest they tell you that you could be a graphic artist or a fine artist. It never occurred to me to be a filmmaker. I couldnt afford to go to college then I heard about Cooper Union, which was free if you got in. So it became my goal in life to get into Cooper Union.
DRE: You went to AFI and they love painters there. David Lynch went there as well.
PJ: Yes its a very similar track. As soon as I got there I took an experimental film class and it was everything.
DRE: And it doesnt have to make sense.
PJ: Yes [laughs]. I started making narrative films which is so funny because I wanted to be a narrative filmmaker. All my teachers just shrugged their shoulders and said they didnt know what to tell me.
DRE: There is all this buzz around Charlize and she totally deserves it. But did you ever think, hey I wrote the script and came up with the character.
PJ: That is a hard answer to have. First of all she is incredible to the point where I couldnt believe it on set. But it is a performance film, whatever accolades there I knew it was a character and the best thing to happen to me is to get a great performance. Im amazed weve gotten as much attention as we have. Im sort of mistrustful of awards proceedings. Did I ever expect to be nominated for best director? No Im just amazed people have even heard of it.
DRE: What about a first time director directing a sex scene between two famous actresses?
PJ: It was the most stressful thing Ive ever done in my life. Of everything I did it was the most stressful. In the end Im glad I went with my instincts. I gave myself pneumonia from stressing over it. The actors just look at you and say, what do you want us to do physically. I had to tell one to touch the other one this way and I would have to go behind the monitor and have a breakdown. The only way that a lesbian scene between the two attractive actresses is going to happen is that someone has to be the pervert here and its not going to be me or them. You need somebody to say, we want to see this. As soon as we started we all started laughing because it was so ridiculous. Then the camera would roll and they would turn it on. Afterwards Charlize said It was one of the most comfortable sex scenes she had done because the laughing made it less invasive. When shes done sex scenes with men everyone takes it so seriously it feels like you actually have to have sex with the guy. I hated it and I never want to direct a sex scene again.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Hello Patty. I saw the movie with my very cynical friend and we both loved it.
Thats so good to hear. The movie is doing really well in the New York theatres.
Yeah I saw posters on top of the yellow cabs.
Im originally from New York and when I saw the movie on top of cabs I th...