You probably remember Nada Surf for their ubiquitous 1996 hit "Popular" off their Ric Ocasek-produced debut album High/Low. When their label, Elektra, dropped them, after they recorded their second album The Proximity Effect, Nada Surf were absent from the music scene for almost four years, but forget all that. They're back, and their new album Let Go is easily one of the best pop-rock records of 2002. Lead guitarist and vocalist Matthew Caws and I spoke recently by phone about the joys of pop music, Neil Young's bedspread, and what it's like to be "Elektracuted"...
Keith Daniels: How did the show go last night?
Matthew Caws: It was... great. What was last night? Oh yeah, it was the Chain Reaction in Anaheim. We were really sloppy. We were late, we've been late a lot on this trip, but I think we tried to make up for being sloppy by trying a few songs that we hardly ever play. Sometimes we feel bad that our set lists don't change very much so we took a couple of chances last night, and the kids were super nice. It went well. It was really good.
KD: Has the set list been in favor of the new record?
MC: Yeah it has been a lot, actually, and it's been the last couple of shows we've heard people be like "Play more stuff from High/Low!" and we feel really bad about it because we're playing like one song from High/Low right now. So we're going to try and get back to the old stuff. I think we're ready to now, but it was good to get away from it for a while and really concentrate on the new record. It's been feeling really good to do that.
KD: High/Low must feel like another band to you now.
MC: A little bit. Y'know, it's a lot more frantic and we're not like that so much anymore. It's just in a little bursts, I'm just not used to being like that all the time. Yeah, I still dig some of the songs. Proximity Effect, on the other hand, the stuff that we play off that record I always like playing it, no matter how old it gets, for some reason. As if that was our real first record in a way, is what it feels like.
KD: You guys have the classic shitty label story. You'd almost expect you guys to come back with something bitter, but it sounds hopeful. How did you keep up your spirits between records?
MC: Yeah. That's a good question. We've been asked a lot "What were those years like?" as if it were some kind of Dark Ages, but the truth is it was really kindof a luxury to be home and that things weren't going so well for the band anymore because personally... I just got to chill out and work at the local record store. Before the band I was working at a magazine and I probably would have tried to push myself to go further and get a better job and then a better job, but because we still had the band and I think we knew in the back of our minds that we were going to get busy again it somehow made it like time out, like real time out. Like "Well, I don't have to go and find some other career, I just need to kill time for a while and we'll get busy again." And that's what I did and I really enjoyed that because it was like having a little bit of an easy life, y'know what I mean? Without a lot of ambition or anything. So that was nice, and that classic experience was pretty depressing because our second record, we really liked it, so it was sad to see it railroaded. But... I don't know... it was all gravy in the first place having any kind of success at all. This particular band, when we formed it, as corny as it sounds we were really thinking that we were gonna do it for fun because we'd been in a couple of more ambitious bands before and I just really didn't like that whole idea or process. I really like just making up songs and rehearsing them and playing little shows - that was all the fun I really wanted anyway, that was fine. So when we formed this band we weren't really looking to get very much done and then we had some success with the first record it was a surprise, but I guess my point is that when that success went away it's not like it became such a bad thing to not have it because it was gravy in the first place.
KD: Even when you were on hiatus, between Proximity Effect and this new one, were you still thinking about what you were gonna do next and planning for it?
MC: Yeah, just kindof sitting around waiting for songs to come, and slowly exploring options. There was definitely a period where I was having to, not hustle exactly and it's certainly not like we had to "shop" the record around - I really don't like that word, but I was staying in touch with friends and seeing what labels were interesting and who we would take a record to when we eventually had one but I think we did know that we weren't gonna sign anything with anybody until the record was done. We wanted to get away from the idea of anybody wanting to recapture our early audience or anything, we just wanted to have a good record and start with that.
KD: Here it is. You like it or you don't like it.
MC: Right, exactly. It's not about who we are or what our history was or whether someone thinks they can make a buck off finding our old fans or something.
KD: You produced this new one yourselves, was that different? Did you like that better than having an outside person in the studio with you?
MC: Well, it was a real collaborative effort. We were supposed to make it with Fred Maher, who produced The Proximity Effect, but basically he was broke, and we were broke and we didn't have any money to give him and he knew that. He was gonna make the record, and then someone offered him a job on another album...
KD: Korn right?
MC: On the Korn record, yeah, and he just had to take it. So the plan was that he would just do that for a week or two and then come join our record but that project went on forever. Chris Fudurich, who engineered The Proximity Effect, was kind of the de facto producer but really we all did it together, and I think it's great. It was nice to be set free a little bit. We were always collaborative on those other records, like collaborating with the producer, but it was nice to just be left to our own devices. I think the record's a little quirkier and I like it being quirky. I'm very pleased.
KD: How did the idea come about to write a song in French?
MC: Well, Daniel and I met at a French school when we were little -- for different reasons. My parents were professors and we took sabbatical years in Paris when I was a kid, so when we were at home my parents just wanted to put me in that school, and Daniel's parents traveled a lot. He's Spanish, from Madrid, but he grew up in Brussels for the first five years, then he lived in New York, and then he lived in Paris. Blah blah blah all around, and he ended up in this French school as well, and that's where we met. So neither of us were French but we happened to speak it, and by total coincidence we'd always done pretty well over there. We've done really long tours in France. After The Proximity Effect we did a thirty show tour in France, and when we came home Daniel was... pretty Frenchy! He was pretty much thinking in French, y'know what I mean? He learned it before English when he was little but he was really spending all this time on the whole tour being all Frenchy and when he got home the first song he wrote happened to be in French. I think it's kindof neat, y'know, I've wanted to in the past. I'm a really big fan of some French stuff, but it's never come out naturally. But he just popped that one out really naturally, so that was just easy. A lot of things on this record were very accidental; there wasn't a lot of thinking going on. It was like trying to stop ourselves from thinking to much. Like when we did "Blonde on Blonde" we recorded it and we had just figured out that morning how we wanted to play it. The logical thing would've been to start adding stuff to it and... it just sounded right and we thought "We'll just leave it alone, maybe that's ok." I think part of that freedom was because no-one was listening, no-one was waiting for it, so all we had to do was please ourselves.
KD: Did it make you nervous to call a song "Blonde on Blonde"?
MC: Well I was gonna call it "Cats and Dogs" and then that Disney movie came out! ((laughs)) So I just called it "Blonde on Blonde". No, I wasn't really thinking about it. That's the other thing, again, if you're not really thinking about anybody hearing it then there's no reason to be afraid of anything really. So yeah, call it "Blonde on Blonde". I love that record!
KD: Why, in Europe, are they more receptive to what you guys do?
MC: On the one hand I think it's just a practical question. It's just that the second record came out on time and actually came out so we never really went away. I think it would be the same in the States now if that record had come out on time. Also, that MTV's not as big a deal over there so we weren't overshadowed by our video. It's like our first record was allowed to have a bit more of a life of it's own. That definitely messed us up that that video did so well.
KD: Their vision of you is not dominated by "Popular".
MC: Exactly.
KD: They seem, especially I think of England, they seem to be more receptive to pop music in the classic sense of the term. What do you think it is that's so great about a good pop song?
MC: Wow... well. If pop music has your number, if that's the thing you react to... wow. It's so... it's such a wild card. It's like a smart bomb, in a video game or something. It can mean so much to you based on so little. Like that song by the Troggs "With A Girl Like You". It's so simple, there's no words. ((imitates the song)) I remember that being in a movie a few years ago, an Australian movie - can't remember what it's called - and it just... What is special about a pop song? It's like poetry that's kindof cheap and the cheapness of the poetry makes it pretense-free in a way. I don't know if that's the reason that poetry as a form isn't popular anymore the way it used to be. All the poets that were really famous: Shelley, Keats, Yeats, and all those people; that's not really the case anymore. Maybe pop music has taken over, and part of the appeal is that it's so simple and that it's so like everyday language, universal themes. I think the best pop songs are about universal themes but they have that one unique little thing that makes them specific. If it's really bland, what's that song that Phil Collins covered? "You Can't Hurry Love". That's a great pop song, but it's so universal that it's not really gonna connect.
KD: It's like government cheese.
MC: Yeah, processed cheese food, absolutely. It doesn't have like a little personal element and I think the best pop songs do. I guess that wasn't your question. I guess that you got to that question by thinking about the British attitude, and I agree. We were on Denmark street, which is the street in London where all the guitar stores are, and there's a store there called Helter Skelter and it's really like walking into an alternate universe. People are standing around browsing through books on Neil Young and Nick Drake, Gram Parsons and the Faces, and Cohen, in the same way that people here would be sitting around browsing through a book on sports or something. It's one notch up, the taste for quirk. I think they like quirks over there. You really have to hand it to the Brits - they have great taste in American music. Better taste than ours. I think that's their trick. The Beatles had better taste in American rock'n'roll than we did, and so they were able to synthesize the best of all these elements. That's true too for things like Zeppelin, but more importantly it's true for the listeners there. Which is why Mojo exists in England and not here; why people keep so historically obsessed about it. God, I don't know what it is. Is it in the water or is it in the food? I'm not sure. Sorry, I know I'm digressing.
KD: No no. Actually, I came up with that question the other day when I was listening to the radio and "Come On Eileen" came on, and I don't even like that song, but it was magic when I was listening to it, y'know?
MC: Absolutely. I've had to sing that two years in a row. Some people I know have a St. Patrick's Day concert celebration, and I just sing "Come On Eileen". It's pretty amazing, and again, it talks about... a singer... is it an American singer? Who is Johnny Ray? Do you know who Johnny Ray was? He was a 50's singer, but I don't know if he was English or American. I think he was American. But again, that's a song about the Brits connecting with an American singer. "Poor old Johnny Ray broke a million hearts in mono" That's the first line I think.
KD: How did you guys end up on the Iggy Pop tribute? I was really surprised to see Nada Surf on that.
MC: Yeah, I don't know how that happened. Let's see... I think it was the guy who was running the label who put out that tribute record, and I don't know how he heard of us or how he knew that we were pretty Stooges obsessed, not that that's anything special I think that almost any rock band is pretty Stooges obsessed, but I feel like we've never really shown it so I don't know how he caught on. Maybe he'd seen us, we used to cover "Search and Destroy" a long time ago; maybe he saw that or something.
KD: Who were some of your favorite bands growing up?
MC: The Who, the early Who, the Ramones. My best friend's older brother was into the Velvets and the Ramones, and there was something totally magical about this guy's room. We'd go to his older brother's room, and it was the sunniest one in this particular apartment. It was really big, and he was always spending his time at used record shops and there was something so romantic about the way things sounded in this guy's room. My parents only listened to classical music, baroque classical specifically, just Bach and Mozart pretty much all day, and my sister and I listened to the radio - that was around the time disco was big. Our first favorite songs were "Dancing Queen" and "Turn the Beat Around" and "Upside Down" by Diana Ross and stuff like that... So anyway, my best friend's older brother turned me on to the Ramones and that was a really big deal. My sister went away to college and had a radio show, and she'd send me air tapes. She was listening to a lot of Joy Division, and then various post-punk stuff like Wire and Mission of Burma and I got into that peripherally, but what really connected was Joy Division. Then on my own for some reason I had an absolute epiphany about Echo & the Bunnymen, and that was the first time... I think I was 16... it was the first sound, besides the Ramones, that really connected in a way that made me want to make that, or more specifically, want to live there. It was more appealing than school or... y'know when you're just looking for where you belong really, and I didn't find it in any sport or anything. I was never like an outcast or anything, but I was never really comfortable around everybody. I was like a switch hitter, a little bit here a little bit there, a little bit on my own but also hanging out with friends. I always felt a little different and then when I started listening to music that I really connected with I all-of-a-sudden felt really at home and comfortable. Then I liked some of the Paisley underground, early 80's Los Angeles things like the Dream Syndicate and Rain Parade...
KD: The new psychedelic stuff.
MC: Yeah, neo-psychedelic stuff, I love that. And then I always loved AC/DC and Zeppelin, hard rock. I was just talking to Ira a couple nights ago, we were talking about music, and we were thinking how it's almost like what we really like to hear is the metal in things that aren't metal. Y'know what I mean? Like the Bunnymen in their way, they're kindof metal. There are parts that are so badass in their songs, but they're not overtly badass. Then the Ramones obviously are badass too, but I never went through a Metallica or Slayer phase, nothing against that kind of stuff, but I think I was always looking for that kindof power in less obvious ways. Like one of my favorite records ever is called "Country Blues" by John Lee Hooker. It's 1959, and it's just him and a guitar and you hear his foot tapping, and that's it. It's really simple, and it's songs about floods and your usual very primitive blues songs about going to jail, stuff like that, but it's so heavy and really beautiful. Even things like the Cocteau Twins can sound really heavy too, y'know, if the melody or the harmonies hit you a certain way it can seem really big. I guess I was just liking big music that wasn't trying to be big music.
KD: Yeah, I know what you mean. Of course I can't think of any examples right now ((laughs)). What have you been listening to that's new?
MC: I like the new Low record Trust. I think that's good. For a little while I was listening to that Bright Eyes record. What else that's new? I really like that song "Losing My Edge" by LCD Sound Systems. Have you heard that? It's really really good, he's the guy from DFA. Death From Above, they're like a production team who did Radio 4 and the Rapture and all that kindof stuff, which I like, but this song "Losing My Edge" is really fantastic. What about you? Maybe I'll agree with you.
KD: I like that new Australian band The Music. Have you heard them?
MC: Oh! They're an English band.
KD: Are they really?
MC: Yeah. They're from Wales.
KD: No shit. I thought they were Australian.
MC: I have that record. I haven't really listened to it yet. I will.
KD: I hear they're like, 12, or something.
MC: Yeah they're very young, they're like 20 or something. This band we're touring with called The People, who don't really have a record out yet, are very good. The Long Winters, who are on Barsuk, which is the label that I'm on, they're fantastic and their record is really good too, and they're great live. I feel kindof spoiled right now because a lot of things immediately around me are seeming very good; I'm not having to go far. Like the last two weeks I've been watching a lot of really good bands every night, because we're touring with them ((laughs)).
KD: Who have you been touring with on this one?
MC: The People, and Sondre Lerche from Norway, he's really good. The Long Winters, they played with us a couple of nights ago, and they're going to play with us at the Knitting Factory tomorrow here in LA. What else that's new... What else do you like?
KD: Oh, well as far as new stuff that's just coming out... I just got one from a band from Portland called Glass Candy, I really like them, can't wait to hear the new White Stripes record...
MC: Oh, I've heard it. It's really good. It's great, actually. There's also a project I've been wanting to do called In My Room, which was gonna be a DVD, and I think Arena Rock is going to put it out. Basically I would be filming, first of all people I know in my neighborhood in Brooklyn, but eventually it could be a lot of other people as well. I would be filming people singing a couple of songs on their bed or on their couch. Y'know, if you know somebody who writes songs and they play you something and it's just the two of you?
KD: Yeah. It's really intimate.
MC: Yeah, it's really intimate and it's really great, and they're really just doing it very honestly and simply. I love that, and especially if it's someone you really like. If you could see Neil Young sitting on his bed playing a song I think the voyeur in all of us would react, you'd be into it like "Oh my god that's what his bedspread's like." I don't mean that in like a reality show kinda way, it would just feel really real. Maybe a couple of songs of each person so that it wouldn't get too claustrophobic. I'm hoping that if I get some time off to just do that. I guess the reason I thought of that was because you were asking what I was listening to, and there are some people, just friends of mine from home who are writing some of my favorite songs ever. They just don't have records out, and they might not. These are just people that have jobs, and are busy, and might not get it together. A woman called Leeann Smith, who's my neighbor at home, we're both in this thing called The Loser's Lounge, which is this thing in New York run by Joe McGinty who is a keyboard player who used to play with Ronnie Spector, he was in the Psychedelic Furs, he played with the Ramones and stuff. He started this thing maybe nine years ago in New York where he put a band together and they would learn, every couple of months, thirty or forty songs by one artist. Usually something kindof left-leaning or kitschy, like Dusty Springfield, Nancy Sinatra, the Bee Gees early stuff, or Roxy Music, or Harry Nilsson, Brian Wilson. Stuff like that. So this band eventually grew to be this Vegas-style band with backup singers and horns and strings and everything, and different singers from New York, [or] mostly from New York, get up and do one song each. Like, you take turns fronting this big Vegas band, and it's really fantastic. There are some great players and it's always really wonderful songs by great songwriters. I met a lot of people through that who are just really talented people in New York who, for whatever reason, like my friend Leann, never made a record, but she's a fantastic songwriter and a great singer. I mean, that's kindof corny in a way because everyone thinks they have friends who make really good music, but I'm really convinced that I do. ((laughs)) So you think if I make this DVD it'll be really good?
KD: ((laughs)) I would imagine so.
MC: A man can hope, a man can dream.
KD: When do you plan on going back and starting on the next record?
MC: It depends on if we get enough time off to kinda get it together. You'd think we would've had all the songs already, and we have... a lot of ideas. We just need some time to just sit around and... gestate, or whatever. I'm guessing... we're pretty much touring until October, and then I hope we'll take a couple of months on our own or together to finish songs... I think by next winter. Sorry, that was a very long answer to a very simple question. You didn't need to hear all that. I think by next winter we'll be making another one.
KD: Now, you said that you think a part of the reason this record was so good was that there weren't any expectations. Do you think the fact somebody will be expecting it the next time will factor in?
MC: It might... I hope it doesn't factor in negatively. I don't think we'll have the luxury of doing this again, because another thing that I think about this record is that it was kindof like making a first album all over again. Because we'd have a lot of time to think about it and a lot of time... at home, just having normal lives, instead of being stuck in a van thinking "Ok, what do I want to write a song about now?" It was more, stories from the neighborhood, and just stuff, the kindof things you write songs on your first album about. I don't think we'll have that luxury again, so I really don't know what the next one will be like. I think one thing that'll balance... like on Let Go...I think that the peace, the calm in it comes from the calm that we were having in our actual lives. That... we don't have anymore. Like, I don't have a normal life anymore at all. It's not just going down to the corner and running into friends while I'm doing my laundry. I'm not home at all. So that's changed, but maybe the fact that I don't thinks there's going to be as much chaos in our lives professionally will bring another kind of calm. Like, we don't have to worry about things like who's gonna put out our next record, being Elektra-cuted.
That's not gonna happen anymore, so that's good. But then again, who can be that calm these days anyway? Things are so hard right now, it's very depressing. Y'know, like the peace march on February 15th in New York, it was so big.
KD: Did you participate in that?
MC: Yeah, I did. Y'know, I was born in Manhattan and it was the biggest thing I've ever seen there. Ever. The biggest event, the most significant event, and in the news it was just like a blip! That felt so unfair. I felt like the city was actually saying something, and no-one was allowed to hear it! The police were claiming that it was only a hundred thousand, and that was just a grievous, grievous insult, because it was so big. Some people in the press were saying it was three or four hundred thousand, but I think it was more than that. I think it was like six or seven hundred thousand and they just did a really good job of keeping people from accumulating in one place. It was all very separated and there were barriers up in very intelligent ways so that there couldn't be like this giant crowd. You could never see it to really count it, y'know, but it felt like it was everywhere. When I got on the subway to go up it was just like hundreds and thousands of people all walking in the same direction taking the same trains to the same places. It was like everybody was going. Everybody. Everybody I knew went. Every single person I knew, and yet I don't think the impression on the outside is like that. So, y'know, on the one hand it's great that people are reacting now. In the Vietnam War there weren't a lot of protests in '64 or '65. It took a few years for the protests to come, and now the protests are happening before the war and that's great, but I'm just worried that even that's not fast enough because I think this one's going to be a lot more dangerous.
KD: Can you articulate your particular reasons for being against the war?
MC: Yes I can. Some specific reasons are: I think going against the U.N. sets a terrible precedent. Even if it hasn't always been organized or operated as well as it should, still... I think my battery's about to die... still the point of it was to have some kind of rational look at what's going on in the world, and we're completely ignoring them, and that's terrible. I think it's gonna destabilize things in the Middle East much more than they are now, and the cost of the war... You could have so many inspectors on the ground in Iraq that nothing would ever happen. Not only have inspectors all over the ground... and this sounds corny and people say it all the time but you could build a thousand hospitals and a thousand schools. That's really the problem, it's just that we're not educated well enough. Hardly anybody is. It's obvious that the President is an idiot, if anybody thinks he got into Yale legitimately they're out of their mind.
KD: ...affirmative action for the kids of rich alumni.
MC: He's the President's son! It's just totally insane, and he stole the election. He wasn't even elected. It's just absolutely horrible. I love Michael Moore, because he seems to be one of the only active voices. The U.S. government's behavior since 9/11 has been like a recruitment office for fanaticism. If I was a Muslim and I was on-the-fence, and I saw what we did I think I'd be ripe for the picking to jump over to the extremist side. In Iran, before Bush made that "Axis of Evil" comment, there were a lot of marches for democracy. They were actually getting it together to move into a more liberal government and atmosphere, and then the "Axis of Evil" comment dropped and bang! All those things are over. Now we're in an antagonistic position with each other all of a sudden where we didn't need to be.
KD: I know your phone's about to die.
MC: Yeah I know, it's sad. I can call again later maybe if you want.
KD: If you want to continue, that'd be great.
MC: Well I'll call you later tonight, at some point. When do you have to turn this in?
KD: Never. ((laughs)) I don't have a specific deadline. I'm open all day tomorrow as well.
MC: Ok, if my phone dies out which I think it will pretty soon, and actually I did leave a friend hanging so I should go pretty soon. Well ok, I'll just call you soon and we'll continue chatting a bit.
KD: Well I've really enjoyed talking to you, and I think your record is one of the best of the year.
MC: Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
KD: Especially "Hi-Speed Soul"
MC: Right on, thanks. Well that goes back to what I liked when I was little because that's pretty blatant as a New Order tribute I think.
KD: That's what I've been listening to lately is New Order, so...
MC: Do you have the first record Movement?
KD: No!
MC: Well you should get that one, it's like it's the warmest one all while being the coldest. It's the most like Joy Division, and yet it's so human because even though they're playing with machines it's also kindof imbalanced and weird, and flawed, but not in a bad way. It's a great, great record. That's so funny... there's a Suicidegirls sticker on the ground in front of me.
KD: Really?
MC: I'm on Melrose, in LA.
KD: We're everywhere.
You can listen to portions of every song on Let Go and watch the complete videos for "Hi-Speed Soul", "Inside of Love", and "The Way You Wear Your Head" at Nadasurf.com.
Keith Daniels: How did the show go last night?
Matthew Caws: It was... great. What was last night? Oh yeah, it was the Chain Reaction in Anaheim. We were really sloppy. We were late, we've been late a lot on this trip, but I think we tried to make up for being sloppy by trying a few songs that we hardly ever play. Sometimes we feel bad that our set lists don't change very much so we took a couple of chances last night, and the kids were super nice. It went well. It was really good.
KD: Has the set list been in favor of the new record?
MC: Yeah it has been a lot, actually, and it's been the last couple of shows we've heard people be like "Play more stuff from High/Low!" and we feel really bad about it because we're playing like one song from High/Low right now. So we're going to try and get back to the old stuff. I think we're ready to now, but it was good to get away from it for a while and really concentrate on the new record. It's been feeling really good to do that.
KD: High/Low must feel like another band to you now.
MC: A little bit. Y'know, it's a lot more frantic and we're not like that so much anymore. It's just in a little bursts, I'm just not used to being like that all the time. Yeah, I still dig some of the songs. Proximity Effect, on the other hand, the stuff that we play off that record I always like playing it, no matter how old it gets, for some reason. As if that was our real first record in a way, is what it feels like.
KD: You guys have the classic shitty label story. You'd almost expect you guys to come back with something bitter, but it sounds hopeful. How did you keep up your spirits between records?
MC: Yeah. That's a good question. We've been asked a lot "What were those years like?" as if it were some kind of Dark Ages, but the truth is it was really kindof a luxury to be home and that things weren't going so well for the band anymore because personally... I just got to chill out and work at the local record store. Before the band I was working at a magazine and I probably would have tried to push myself to go further and get a better job and then a better job, but because we still had the band and I think we knew in the back of our minds that we were going to get busy again it somehow made it like time out, like real time out. Like "Well, I don't have to go and find some other career, I just need to kill time for a while and we'll get busy again." And that's what I did and I really enjoyed that because it was like having a little bit of an easy life, y'know what I mean? Without a lot of ambition or anything. So that was nice, and that classic experience was pretty depressing because our second record, we really liked it, so it was sad to see it railroaded. But... I don't know... it was all gravy in the first place having any kind of success at all. This particular band, when we formed it, as corny as it sounds we were really thinking that we were gonna do it for fun because we'd been in a couple of more ambitious bands before and I just really didn't like that whole idea or process. I really like just making up songs and rehearsing them and playing little shows - that was all the fun I really wanted anyway, that was fine. So when we formed this band we weren't really looking to get very much done and then we had some success with the first record it was a surprise, but I guess my point is that when that success went away it's not like it became such a bad thing to not have it because it was gravy in the first place.
KD: Even when you were on hiatus, between Proximity Effect and this new one, were you still thinking about what you were gonna do next and planning for it?
MC: Yeah, just kindof sitting around waiting for songs to come, and slowly exploring options. There was definitely a period where I was having to, not hustle exactly and it's certainly not like we had to "shop" the record around - I really don't like that word, but I was staying in touch with friends and seeing what labels were interesting and who we would take a record to when we eventually had one but I think we did know that we weren't gonna sign anything with anybody until the record was done. We wanted to get away from the idea of anybody wanting to recapture our early audience or anything, we just wanted to have a good record and start with that.
KD: Here it is. You like it or you don't like it.
MC: Right, exactly. It's not about who we are or what our history was or whether someone thinks they can make a buck off finding our old fans or something.
KD: You produced this new one yourselves, was that different? Did you like that better than having an outside person in the studio with you?
MC: Well, it was a real collaborative effort. We were supposed to make it with Fred Maher, who produced The Proximity Effect, but basically he was broke, and we were broke and we didn't have any money to give him and he knew that. He was gonna make the record, and then someone offered him a job on another album...
KD: Korn right?
MC: On the Korn record, yeah, and he just had to take it. So the plan was that he would just do that for a week or two and then come join our record but that project went on forever. Chris Fudurich, who engineered The Proximity Effect, was kind of the de facto producer but really we all did it together, and I think it's great. It was nice to be set free a little bit. We were always collaborative on those other records, like collaborating with the producer, but it was nice to just be left to our own devices. I think the record's a little quirkier and I like it being quirky. I'm very pleased.
KD: How did the idea come about to write a song in French?
MC: Well, Daniel and I met at a French school when we were little -- for different reasons. My parents were professors and we took sabbatical years in Paris when I was a kid, so when we were at home my parents just wanted to put me in that school, and Daniel's parents traveled a lot. He's Spanish, from Madrid, but he grew up in Brussels for the first five years, then he lived in New York, and then he lived in Paris. Blah blah blah all around, and he ended up in this French school as well, and that's where we met. So neither of us were French but we happened to speak it, and by total coincidence we'd always done pretty well over there. We've done really long tours in France. After The Proximity Effect we did a thirty show tour in France, and when we came home Daniel was... pretty Frenchy! He was pretty much thinking in French, y'know what I mean? He learned it before English when he was little but he was really spending all this time on the whole tour being all Frenchy and when he got home the first song he wrote happened to be in French. I think it's kindof neat, y'know, I've wanted to in the past. I'm a really big fan of some French stuff, but it's never come out naturally. But he just popped that one out really naturally, so that was just easy. A lot of things on this record were very accidental; there wasn't a lot of thinking going on. It was like trying to stop ourselves from thinking to much. Like when we did "Blonde on Blonde" we recorded it and we had just figured out that morning how we wanted to play it. The logical thing would've been to start adding stuff to it and... it just sounded right and we thought "We'll just leave it alone, maybe that's ok." I think part of that freedom was because no-one was listening, no-one was waiting for it, so all we had to do was please ourselves.
KD: Did it make you nervous to call a song "Blonde on Blonde"?
MC: Well I was gonna call it "Cats and Dogs" and then that Disney movie came out! ((laughs)) So I just called it "Blonde on Blonde". No, I wasn't really thinking about it. That's the other thing, again, if you're not really thinking about anybody hearing it then there's no reason to be afraid of anything really. So yeah, call it "Blonde on Blonde". I love that record!
KD: Why, in Europe, are they more receptive to what you guys do?
MC: On the one hand I think it's just a practical question. It's just that the second record came out on time and actually came out so we never really went away. I think it would be the same in the States now if that record had come out on time. Also, that MTV's not as big a deal over there so we weren't overshadowed by our video. It's like our first record was allowed to have a bit more of a life of it's own. That definitely messed us up that that video did so well.
KD: Their vision of you is not dominated by "Popular".
MC: Exactly.
KD: They seem, especially I think of England, they seem to be more receptive to pop music in the classic sense of the term. What do you think it is that's so great about a good pop song?
MC: Wow... well. If pop music has your number, if that's the thing you react to... wow. It's so... it's such a wild card. It's like a smart bomb, in a video game or something. It can mean so much to you based on so little. Like that song by the Troggs "With A Girl Like You". It's so simple, there's no words. ((imitates the song)) I remember that being in a movie a few years ago, an Australian movie - can't remember what it's called - and it just... What is special about a pop song? It's like poetry that's kindof cheap and the cheapness of the poetry makes it pretense-free in a way. I don't know if that's the reason that poetry as a form isn't popular anymore the way it used to be. All the poets that were really famous: Shelley, Keats, Yeats, and all those people; that's not really the case anymore. Maybe pop music has taken over, and part of the appeal is that it's so simple and that it's so like everyday language, universal themes. I think the best pop songs are about universal themes but they have that one unique little thing that makes them specific. If it's really bland, what's that song that Phil Collins covered? "You Can't Hurry Love". That's a great pop song, but it's so universal that it's not really gonna connect.
KD: It's like government cheese.
MC: Yeah, processed cheese food, absolutely. It doesn't have like a little personal element and I think the best pop songs do. I guess that wasn't your question. I guess that you got to that question by thinking about the British attitude, and I agree. We were on Denmark street, which is the street in London where all the guitar stores are, and there's a store there called Helter Skelter and it's really like walking into an alternate universe. People are standing around browsing through books on Neil Young and Nick Drake, Gram Parsons and the Faces, and Cohen, in the same way that people here would be sitting around browsing through a book on sports or something. It's one notch up, the taste for quirk. I think they like quirks over there. You really have to hand it to the Brits - they have great taste in American music. Better taste than ours. I think that's their trick. The Beatles had better taste in American rock'n'roll than we did, and so they were able to synthesize the best of all these elements. That's true too for things like Zeppelin, but more importantly it's true for the listeners there. Which is why Mojo exists in England and not here; why people keep so historically obsessed about it. God, I don't know what it is. Is it in the water or is it in the food? I'm not sure. Sorry, I know I'm digressing.
KD: No no. Actually, I came up with that question the other day when I was listening to the radio and "Come On Eileen" came on, and I don't even like that song, but it was magic when I was listening to it, y'know?
MC: Absolutely. I've had to sing that two years in a row. Some people I know have a St. Patrick's Day concert celebration, and I just sing "Come On Eileen". It's pretty amazing, and again, it talks about... a singer... is it an American singer? Who is Johnny Ray? Do you know who Johnny Ray was? He was a 50's singer, but I don't know if he was English or American. I think he was American. But again, that's a song about the Brits connecting with an American singer. "Poor old Johnny Ray broke a million hearts in mono" That's the first line I think.
KD: How did you guys end up on the Iggy Pop tribute? I was really surprised to see Nada Surf on that.
MC: Yeah, I don't know how that happened. Let's see... I think it was the guy who was running the label who put out that tribute record, and I don't know how he heard of us or how he knew that we were pretty Stooges obsessed, not that that's anything special I think that almost any rock band is pretty Stooges obsessed, but I feel like we've never really shown it so I don't know how he caught on. Maybe he'd seen us, we used to cover "Search and Destroy" a long time ago; maybe he saw that or something.
KD: Who were some of your favorite bands growing up?
MC: The Who, the early Who, the Ramones. My best friend's older brother was into the Velvets and the Ramones, and there was something totally magical about this guy's room. We'd go to his older brother's room, and it was the sunniest one in this particular apartment. It was really big, and he was always spending his time at used record shops and there was something so romantic about the way things sounded in this guy's room. My parents only listened to classical music, baroque classical specifically, just Bach and Mozart pretty much all day, and my sister and I listened to the radio - that was around the time disco was big. Our first favorite songs were "Dancing Queen" and "Turn the Beat Around" and "Upside Down" by Diana Ross and stuff like that... So anyway, my best friend's older brother turned me on to the Ramones and that was a really big deal. My sister went away to college and had a radio show, and she'd send me air tapes. She was listening to a lot of Joy Division, and then various post-punk stuff like Wire and Mission of Burma and I got into that peripherally, but what really connected was Joy Division. Then on my own for some reason I had an absolute epiphany about Echo & the Bunnymen, and that was the first time... I think I was 16... it was the first sound, besides the Ramones, that really connected in a way that made me want to make that, or more specifically, want to live there. It was more appealing than school or... y'know when you're just looking for where you belong really, and I didn't find it in any sport or anything. I was never like an outcast or anything, but I was never really comfortable around everybody. I was like a switch hitter, a little bit here a little bit there, a little bit on my own but also hanging out with friends. I always felt a little different and then when I started listening to music that I really connected with I all-of-a-sudden felt really at home and comfortable. Then I liked some of the Paisley underground, early 80's Los Angeles things like the Dream Syndicate and Rain Parade...
KD: The new psychedelic stuff.
MC: Yeah, neo-psychedelic stuff, I love that. And then I always loved AC/DC and Zeppelin, hard rock. I was just talking to Ira a couple nights ago, we were talking about music, and we were thinking how it's almost like what we really like to hear is the metal in things that aren't metal. Y'know what I mean? Like the Bunnymen in their way, they're kindof metal. There are parts that are so badass in their songs, but they're not overtly badass. Then the Ramones obviously are badass too, but I never went through a Metallica or Slayer phase, nothing against that kind of stuff, but I think I was always looking for that kindof power in less obvious ways. Like one of my favorite records ever is called "Country Blues" by John Lee Hooker. It's 1959, and it's just him and a guitar and you hear his foot tapping, and that's it. It's really simple, and it's songs about floods and your usual very primitive blues songs about going to jail, stuff like that, but it's so heavy and really beautiful. Even things like the Cocteau Twins can sound really heavy too, y'know, if the melody or the harmonies hit you a certain way it can seem really big. I guess I was just liking big music that wasn't trying to be big music.
KD: Yeah, I know what you mean. Of course I can't think of any examples right now ((laughs)). What have you been listening to that's new?
MC: I like the new Low record Trust. I think that's good. For a little while I was listening to that Bright Eyes record. What else that's new? I really like that song "Losing My Edge" by LCD Sound Systems. Have you heard that? It's really really good, he's the guy from DFA. Death From Above, they're like a production team who did Radio 4 and the Rapture and all that kindof stuff, which I like, but this song "Losing My Edge" is really fantastic. What about you? Maybe I'll agree with you.
KD: I like that new Australian band The Music. Have you heard them?
MC: Oh! They're an English band.
KD: Are they really?
MC: Yeah. They're from Wales.
KD: No shit. I thought they were Australian.
MC: I have that record. I haven't really listened to it yet. I will.
KD: I hear they're like, 12, or something.
MC: Yeah they're very young, they're like 20 or something. This band we're touring with called The People, who don't really have a record out yet, are very good. The Long Winters, who are on Barsuk, which is the label that I'm on, they're fantastic and their record is really good too, and they're great live. I feel kindof spoiled right now because a lot of things immediately around me are seeming very good; I'm not having to go far. Like the last two weeks I've been watching a lot of really good bands every night, because we're touring with them ((laughs)).
KD: Who have you been touring with on this one?
MC: The People, and Sondre Lerche from Norway, he's really good. The Long Winters, they played with us a couple of nights ago, and they're going to play with us at the Knitting Factory tomorrow here in LA. What else that's new... What else do you like?
KD: Oh, well as far as new stuff that's just coming out... I just got one from a band from Portland called Glass Candy, I really like them, can't wait to hear the new White Stripes record...
MC: Oh, I've heard it. It's really good. It's great, actually. There's also a project I've been wanting to do called In My Room, which was gonna be a DVD, and I think Arena Rock is going to put it out. Basically I would be filming, first of all people I know in my neighborhood in Brooklyn, but eventually it could be a lot of other people as well. I would be filming people singing a couple of songs on their bed or on their couch. Y'know, if you know somebody who writes songs and they play you something and it's just the two of you?
KD: Yeah. It's really intimate.
MC: Yeah, it's really intimate and it's really great, and they're really just doing it very honestly and simply. I love that, and especially if it's someone you really like. If you could see Neil Young sitting on his bed playing a song I think the voyeur in all of us would react, you'd be into it like "Oh my god that's what his bedspread's like." I don't mean that in like a reality show kinda way, it would just feel really real. Maybe a couple of songs of each person so that it wouldn't get too claustrophobic. I'm hoping that if I get some time off to just do that. I guess the reason I thought of that was because you were asking what I was listening to, and there are some people, just friends of mine from home who are writing some of my favorite songs ever. They just don't have records out, and they might not. These are just people that have jobs, and are busy, and might not get it together. A woman called Leeann Smith, who's my neighbor at home, we're both in this thing called The Loser's Lounge, which is this thing in New York run by Joe McGinty who is a keyboard player who used to play with Ronnie Spector, he was in the Psychedelic Furs, he played with the Ramones and stuff. He started this thing maybe nine years ago in New York where he put a band together and they would learn, every couple of months, thirty or forty songs by one artist. Usually something kindof left-leaning or kitschy, like Dusty Springfield, Nancy Sinatra, the Bee Gees early stuff, or Roxy Music, or Harry Nilsson, Brian Wilson. Stuff like that. So this band eventually grew to be this Vegas-style band with backup singers and horns and strings and everything, and different singers from New York, [or] mostly from New York, get up and do one song each. Like, you take turns fronting this big Vegas band, and it's really fantastic. There are some great players and it's always really wonderful songs by great songwriters. I met a lot of people through that who are just really talented people in New York who, for whatever reason, like my friend Leann, never made a record, but she's a fantastic songwriter and a great singer. I mean, that's kindof corny in a way because everyone thinks they have friends who make really good music, but I'm really convinced that I do. ((laughs)) So you think if I make this DVD it'll be really good?
KD: ((laughs)) I would imagine so.
MC: A man can hope, a man can dream.
KD: When do you plan on going back and starting on the next record?
MC: It depends on if we get enough time off to kinda get it together. You'd think we would've had all the songs already, and we have... a lot of ideas. We just need some time to just sit around and... gestate, or whatever. I'm guessing... we're pretty much touring until October, and then I hope we'll take a couple of months on our own or together to finish songs... I think by next winter. Sorry, that was a very long answer to a very simple question. You didn't need to hear all that. I think by next winter we'll be making another one.
KD: Now, you said that you think a part of the reason this record was so good was that there weren't any expectations. Do you think the fact somebody will be expecting it the next time will factor in?
MC: It might... I hope it doesn't factor in negatively. I don't think we'll have the luxury of doing this again, because another thing that I think about this record is that it was kindof like making a first album all over again. Because we'd have a lot of time to think about it and a lot of time... at home, just having normal lives, instead of being stuck in a van thinking "Ok, what do I want to write a song about now?" It was more, stories from the neighborhood, and just stuff, the kindof things you write songs on your first album about. I don't think we'll have that luxury again, so I really don't know what the next one will be like. I think one thing that'll balance... like on Let Go...I think that the peace, the calm in it comes from the calm that we were having in our actual lives. That... we don't have anymore. Like, I don't have a normal life anymore at all. It's not just going down to the corner and running into friends while I'm doing my laundry. I'm not home at all. So that's changed, but maybe the fact that I don't thinks there's going to be as much chaos in our lives professionally will bring another kind of calm. Like, we don't have to worry about things like who's gonna put out our next record, being Elektra-cuted.
That's not gonna happen anymore, so that's good. But then again, who can be that calm these days anyway? Things are so hard right now, it's very depressing. Y'know, like the peace march on February 15th in New York, it was so big.
KD: Did you participate in that?
MC: Yeah, I did. Y'know, I was born in Manhattan and it was the biggest thing I've ever seen there. Ever. The biggest event, the most significant event, and in the news it was just like a blip! That felt so unfair. I felt like the city was actually saying something, and no-one was allowed to hear it! The police were claiming that it was only a hundred thousand, and that was just a grievous, grievous insult, because it was so big. Some people in the press were saying it was three or four hundred thousand, but I think it was more than that. I think it was like six or seven hundred thousand and they just did a really good job of keeping people from accumulating in one place. It was all very separated and there were barriers up in very intelligent ways so that there couldn't be like this giant crowd. You could never see it to really count it, y'know, but it felt like it was everywhere. When I got on the subway to go up it was just like hundreds and thousands of people all walking in the same direction taking the same trains to the same places. It was like everybody was going. Everybody. Everybody I knew went. Every single person I knew, and yet I don't think the impression on the outside is like that. So, y'know, on the one hand it's great that people are reacting now. In the Vietnam War there weren't a lot of protests in '64 or '65. It took a few years for the protests to come, and now the protests are happening before the war and that's great, but I'm just worried that even that's not fast enough because I think this one's going to be a lot more dangerous.
KD: Can you articulate your particular reasons for being against the war?
MC: Yes I can. Some specific reasons are: I think going against the U.N. sets a terrible precedent. Even if it hasn't always been organized or operated as well as it should, still... I think my battery's about to die... still the point of it was to have some kind of rational look at what's going on in the world, and we're completely ignoring them, and that's terrible. I think it's gonna destabilize things in the Middle East much more than they are now, and the cost of the war... You could have so many inspectors on the ground in Iraq that nothing would ever happen. Not only have inspectors all over the ground... and this sounds corny and people say it all the time but you could build a thousand hospitals and a thousand schools. That's really the problem, it's just that we're not educated well enough. Hardly anybody is. It's obvious that the President is an idiot, if anybody thinks he got into Yale legitimately they're out of their mind.
KD: ...affirmative action for the kids of rich alumni.
MC: He's the President's son! It's just totally insane, and he stole the election. He wasn't even elected. It's just absolutely horrible. I love Michael Moore, because he seems to be one of the only active voices. The U.S. government's behavior since 9/11 has been like a recruitment office for fanaticism. If I was a Muslim and I was on-the-fence, and I saw what we did I think I'd be ripe for the picking to jump over to the extremist side. In Iran, before Bush made that "Axis of Evil" comment, there were a lot of marches for democracy. They were actually getting it together to move into a more liberal government and atmosphere, and then the "Axis of Evil" comment dropped and bang! All those things are over. Now we're in an antagonistic position with each other all of a sudden where we didn't need to be.
KD: I know your phone's about to die.
MC: Yeah I know, it's sad. I can call again later maybe if you want.
KD: If you want to continue, that'd be great.
MC: Well I'll call you later tonight, at some point. When do you have to turn this in?
KD: Never. ((laughs)) I don't have a specific deadline. I'm open all day tomorrow as well.
MC: Ok, if my phone dies out which I think it will pretty soon, and actually I did leave a friend hanging so I should go pretty soon. Well ok, I'll just call you soon and we'll continue chatting a bit.
KD: Well I've really enjoyed talking to you, and I think your record is one of the best of the year.
MC: Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
KD: Especially "Hi-Speed Soul"
MC: Right on, thanks. Well that goes back to what I liked when I was little because that's pretty blatant as a New Order tribute I think.
KD: That's what I've been listening to lately is New Order, so...
MC: Do you have the first record Movement?
KD: No!
MC: Well you should get that one, it's like it's the warmest one all while being the coldest. It's the most like Joy Division, and yet it's so human because even though they're playing with machines it's also kindof imbalanced and weird, and flawed, but not in a bad way. It's a great, great record. That's so funny... there's a Suicidegirls sticker on the ground in front of me.
KD: Really?
MC: I'm on Melrose, in LA.
KD: We're everywhere.
You can listen to portions of every song on Let Go and watch the complete videos for "Hi-Speed Soul", "Inside of Love", and "The Way You Wear Your Head" at Nadasurf.com.
VIEW 10 of 10 COMMENTS
keith:
Oh yeah, and those are good suggestions. If Sean doesn't see them here, I'll run it by him.
amina:
I just love this band. yay for nada surf interviews!!!!!!! now im gonna listen to 'Hollywood'