Joe Jackson has confounded just about everyone who ever heard his name at some point over the course of his twenty-five year career, critics and fans alike. His relentless pursuit of the muse led him from the edgy, biting new-wave of his classic 1978 debut record Look Sharp, and it's follow-up I'm The Man, on to the worldly reggae of Beat Crazy, the jump blues of Jumpin' Jive, and the sophisticated jazzy pop of Night and Day in the space of five records and as many years.
Popular success came with Night and Day's "Steppin' Out" and "Always Something Breaking Us In Two", but Jackson continued to follow his personal inclinations, balancing straightforward pop-rock with albums of classical music and often difficult pop that owed more to Tin Pan Alley than to the Kinks. 2000 saw Jackson's Symphony No.1 bring him the first of the five Grammy's for which he's been nominated over the years.
Nowadays, with his excellent memoir A Cure For Gravity recently published, and a tight, melodically rocking new record, Volume 4, in the vein of his early new wave records (and featuring the same reunited band) just out, Joe Jackson looks to be reclaiming some of the fans who might have lost their patience over the years. Just don't tell him that:
[my phone rings]
Keith Daniels: Hello?
Joe Jackson: Hello.
KD: Hi! Is this Joe?
JJ: Yeah. Why do you want to talk to me?
KD: Well a couple of months ago I bought your first two records, Look Sharp and I'm The Man, and I really enjoyed them. Then I heard you had made a new record with the old band from those records...
JJ: "The old band" [chuckles] [phone rings in the background] Hold on a moment.
KD: Sure.
[dial tone]
Operator: Please hang up and try your call again. If you need assistance, please dial your operator.
[my phone rings]
KD: Hello?
JJ: Sorry, lost you there. I don't know what's the point of having two lines on the phone if you cut one off when you switch. [laughs] Anyway, we've got like fifteen minutes...
KD: For someone who's known for stylistic jumps...
JJ: What people are known for isn't what they actually are.
KD: Yeah, but in the last couple of years you've revisited, I'm thinking of Night and Day II, and now you're back with the band from your first three records. How did that come about?
JJ: Well, we recorded Look Sharp in August 1978, so this year is our 25th anniversary. So the idea of some kind of reunion was sort of in the air, and I thought it was a terrible idea. To me it just seemed like it would be a cheesy nostalgia trip, and I didn't want to do that. The thing is I had half the songs on this new record already written, and it seemed like they would all fit the band pretty well. So I thought about "What if we did a reunion, but to do something new?" instead of just nostalgia, and make a new album. When I got to the point where I really thought we could make a great new album, and also the other guys were so enthusiastic, I thought, "Well, y'know what? It's silly not to do it." Let's just do it, let's have a laugh, and that's what it's been. It's just been great fun.
KD: Had the other guys stayed involved in professional music in the time in between?
JJ: Yeah, Graham, the bass player, has worked with me on many projects all along, and the other guys had just been working with other people. Dave, the drummer, has kept kindof a low profile, just working with local people. Gary played with Aztec Camera, and a few other people.
KD: You've also recently written your memoir, and taken with the new album it almost seems like you're trying to reconnect with something.
JJ: Well the book is partly a memoir, but it's really a book about music. I kindof used the memoir element as the structure for a book about music. I suppose I know what you mean, but from my point of view there's no kind of plan or any agenda. I think that's sort of an outside perspective, looking at it with hindsight. I mean, I can see it because people keep bringing it up. People keep saying "It looks like you've been gradually reconnecting with the past". Well maybe I have, but I wasn't aware of it. It wasn't planned. In between the book and this, for instance, is my symphony, which is something very new, and won a Grammy and all that.
KD: You'd been nominated four times before. Was the experience of winning one what you expected?
JJ: [laughs] No, because I didn't expect to win! [laughs] I was just stunned.
KD: Your book is a pretty good read. Had you always wanted to write it?
JJ: No, never. I never thought I could write a book, and when I first started working on it I didn't think it would be a book. I just did it for my own amusement, and sometimes therapy I guess. It just gradually turned into a book, and I'm really proud of it. I'm more proud of it than some of my albums. [laughs]
KD: The Clash were inducted into the Rock'n'roll Hall of Fame this year. Did you know Joe Strummer?
JJ: Yeah.
KD: What were your thoughts when you heard that he had died?
JJ: I was just really shocked. It's funny because back then, the late '70s, I never felt like I was part of any kind of movement. I wouldn't have said that Joe Strummer was one of my peers, or anything like that back then. That couple of years between the appearance of the Clash and the appearance of me really seemed like a big deal at the time, but it's funny, looking back on it, it does feel more like I was part of something that was going on. I was certainly very influenced by him. It's a bit like someone who went to your school who was a couple of years above you, y'know? It's weird.
KD: What do you think about new wave and early punk coming back lately?
JJ: It's always been coming back! [laughs] Any sort of genre that you can put a name to goes in and out of fashion over time.
KD: Your album Jumpin' Jive, the covers album, is often credited as kicking off the revival of jump blues and swing music in the '90s.
JJ: There've been two revivals of that kind of music since I did Jumpin' Jive I think. Same story. Any genre that you can identify is going to go in and out of fashion.
KD: I've also read that before your first album came out you worked as a Playboy Club pianist. Have any good stories from that period?
JJ: Not really. I think that the weird thing about it is that four nights a week I was a Playboy Club pianist, wearing a tuxedo, and the rest of the time I was going up to London to see punk bands, and also starting to put my own band together. So it was like this weird double existence. [laughs] I was never quite sure which was the imposter. I don't have one story that really stands out, but it was this strange schizoid time in my life. I was backing lounge singers and comedians, and playing for people who are eating and being served by bunny girls. [laughs] Then going and seeing The Damned on my day off. [laughs]
KD: Who really struck you among that first wave of punk?
JJ: I guess The Clash, more than anyone else. Just the intensity of what they did and how genuine they were, that was the real influence on me, in terms of cutting all the crap. I don't know how much crap there was in what I was doing at the time, [laughs] but whatever there was I cutting it out.
KD: You live in New York City now, right?
JJ: Yeah, but I also have a place in England. I'm thinking about leaving New York, actually. I'm kindof disgusted with the way it's been going.
KD: Why's that?
JJ: It's just lost it's edge. It's becoming a joyless place.
KD: Is this since September 11th or what?
JJ: Since Guiliani, basically, and his successor, Bloomberg, is even worse. I don't know where you're based or how much you know about New York...
KD: I'm in Oklahoma, actually.
JJ: Oh, ok! [laughs]
KD: But I keep up with it, y'know.
JJ: It's just become a city for rich people and tourists. It's really lost it's edge, and now you've got a total smoking ban which's just come into effect -- including bars and night clubs. This is not the New York I fell in love with. I'm kindof disgusted with it.
KD: Do you smoke?
JJ: Yeah! In a bar! [laughs] Everyone except Bloomberg understands that people like to have a cigarette with a drink in a bar. I'm just one of these people that likes a cigarette with a drink. I don't smoke a pack a day or anything, but when someone tells me I'm not allowed to smoke then I really want to smoke.
KD: What are your plans for the immediate future?
JJ: Well we've got a big tour to get through. I don't want to think too much about the future. Anyway, to get through a tour like this, which is gonna be six months, is sortof one day at a time, one gig at a time. After the tour? I dunno. I've got to figure out where I want to live. I'd like to do some more film music, and maybe even something in theater though I don't know what it would be.
KD: You did some theater work in the early days.
JJ: I did do some work playing piano in theatrical productions. I've been approached by a lot of people over the years about doing some musical theater piece, but no-one's ever been able to come up with the right thing yet. I don't want to write a Broadway show. I don't like that style of singing. So I don't know, it would be something more experimental I guess. There's some things that are distantly on the back-burner that I think about, but other than that I don't know. I don't really like to think more than a year ahead.
KD: What are some of the things that you enjoy about non-pop music? What appeals to you about it?
JJ: Beethoven's my hero. Always has been. Beethoven's kindof like the Shakespeare of music. He did it all. He did everything. Everything's there. Tragedy. Drama. Sense of humor. Fun. Beauty. Quietness. Loudness. Everything, and he's kindof an inspirational, heroic figure as well, because he really pushed the envelope in every way. He was so ahead of his time, and he was not understand very well a lot of the time. He was slagged off by all the critics. He also had terrible health problems. He went deaf in his thirties, wrote most of his greatest music when he was stone deaf. Just amazing what this guy achieved. With any music, see here's the thing, you can talk about it but you can't really talk about it. There's a lot about music that is mysterious, and is understood on an intuitive level. It's actually quite hard to talk or write about music, even though lots of people constantly try, because we're fascinated by music. We can't help it. We can't help talking about it, and trying to make sense of it. But the fact is it's kind of like talking about God or something. It's beyond our ability to put into words. Certain pieces of Beethoven, still after thirty years, give me chills, and I don't know why that is.
For more information on Joe Jackson, check out JoeJackson.com
Popular success came with Night and Day's "Steppin' Out" and "Always Something Breaking Us In Two", but Jackson continued to follow his personal inclinations, balancing straightforward pop-rock with albums of classical music and often difficult pop that owed more to Tin Pan Alley than to the Kinks. 2000 saw Jackson's Symphony No.1 bring him the first of the five Grammy's for which he's been nominated over the years.
Nowadays, with his excellent memoir A Cure For Gravity recently published, and a tight, melodically rocking new record, Volume 4, in the vein of his early new wave records (and featuring the same reunited band) just out, Joe Jackson looks to be reclaiming some of the fans who might have lost their patience over the years. Just don't tell him that:
[my phone rings]
Keith Daniels: Hello?
Joe Jackson: Hello.
KD: Hi! Is this Joe?
JJ: Yeah. Why do you want to talk to me?
KD: Well a couple of months ago I bought your first two records, Look Sharp and I'm The Man, and I really enjoyed them. Then I heard you had made a new record with the old band from those records...
JJ: "The old band" [chuckles] [phone rings in the background] Hold on a moment.
KD: Sure.
[dial tone]
Operator: Please hang up and try your call again. If you need assistance, please dial your operator.
[my phone rings]
KD: Hello?
JJ: Sorry, lost you there. I don't know what's the point of having two lines on the phone if you cut one off when you switch. [laughs] Anyway, we've got like fifteen minutes...
KD: For someone who's known for stylistic jumps...
JJ: What people are known for isn't what they actually are.
KD: Yeah, but in the last couple of years you've revisited, I'm thinking of Night and Day II, and now you're back with the band from your first three records. How did that come about?
JJ: Well, we recorded Look Sharp in August 1978, so this year is our 25th anniversary. So the idea of some kind of reunion was sort of in the air, and I thought it was a terrible idea. To me it just seemed like it would be a cheesy nostalgia trip, and I didn't want to do that. The thing is I had half the songs on this new record already written, and it seemed like they would all fit the band pretty well. So I thought about "What if we did a reunion, but to do something new?" instead of just nostalgia, and make a new album. When I got to the point where I really thought we could make a great new album, and also the other guys were so enthusiastic, I thought, "Well, y'know what? It's silly not to do it." Let's just do it, let's have a laugh, and that's what it's been. It's just been great fun.
KD: Had the other guys stayed involved in professional music in the time in between?
JJ: Yeah, Graham, the bass player, has worked with me on many projects all along, and the other guys had just been working with other people. Dave, the drummer, has kept kindof a low profile, just working with local people. Gary played with Aztec Camera, and a few other people.
KD: You've also recently written your memoir, and taken with the new album it almost seems like you're trying to reconnect with something.
JJ: Well the book is partly a memoir, but it's really a book about music. I kindof used the memoir element as the structure for a book about music. I suppose I know what you mean, but from my point of view there's no kind of plan or any agenda. I think that's sort of an outside perspective, looking at it with hindsight. I mean, I can see it because people keep bringing it up. People keep saying "It looks like you've been gradually reconnecting with the past". Well maybe I have, but I wasn't aware of it. It wasn't planned. In between the book and this, for instance, is my symphony, which is something very new, and won a Grammy and all that.
KD: You'd been nominated four times before. Was the experience of winning one what you expected?
JJ: [laughs] No, because I didn't expect to win! [laughs] I was just stunned.
KD: Your book is a pretty good read. Had you always wanted to write it?
JJ: No, never. I never thought I could write a book, and when I first started working on it I didn't think it would be a book. I just did it for my own amusement, and sometimes therapy I guess. It just gradually turned into a book, and I'm really proud of it. I'm more proud of it than some of my albums. [laughs]
KD: The Clash were inducted into the Rock'n'roll Hall of Fame this year. Did you know Joe Strummer?
JJ: Yeah.
KD: What were your thoughts when you heard that he had died?
JJ: I was just really shocked. It's funny because back then, the late '70s, I never felt like I was part of any kind of movement. I wouldn't have said that Joe Strummer was one of my peers, or anything like that back then. That couple of years between the appearance of the Clash and the appearance of me really seemed like a big deal at the time, but it's funny, looking back on it, it does feel more like I was part of something that was going on. I was certainly very influenced by him. It's a bit like someone who went to your school who was a couple of years above you, y'know? It's weird.
KD: What do you think about new wave and early punk coming back lately?
JJ: It's always been coming back! [laughs] Any sort of genre that you can put a name to goes in and out of fashion over time.
KD: Your album Jumpin' Jive, the covers album, is often credited as kicking off the revival of jump blues and swing music in the '90s.
JJ: There've been two revivals of that kind of music since I did Jumpin' Jive I think. Same story. Any genre that you can identify is going to go in and out of fashion.
KD: I've also read that before your first album came out you worked as a Playboy Club pianist. Have any good stories from that period?
JJ: Not really. I think that the weird thing about it is that four nights a week I was a Playboy Club pianist, wearing a tuxedo, and the rest of the time I was going up to London to see punk bands, and also starting to put my own band together. So it was like this weird double existence. [laughs] I was never quite sure which was the imposter. I don't have one story that really stands out, but it was this strange schizoid time in my life. I was backing lounge singers and comedians, and playing for people who are eating and being served by bunny girls. [laughs] Then going and seeing The Damned on my day off. [laughs]
KD: Who really struck you among that first wave of punk?
JJ: I guess The Clash, more than anyone else. Just the intensity of what they did and how genuine they were, that was the real influence on me, in terms of cutting all the crap. I don't know how much crap there was in what I was doing at the time, [laughs] but whatever there was I cutting it out.
KD: You live in New York City now, right?
JJ: Yeah, but I also have a place in England. I'm thinking about leaving New York, actually. I'm kindof disgusted with the way it's been going.
KD: Why's that?
JJ: It's just lost it's edge. It's becoming a joyless place.
KD: Is this since September 11th or what?
JJ: Since Guiliani, basically, and his successor, Bloomberg, is even worse. I don't know where you're based or how much you know about New York...
KD: I'm in Oklahoma, actually.
JJ: Oh, ok! [laughs]
KD: But I keep up with it, y'know.
JJ: It's just become a city for rich people and tourists. It's really lost it's edge, and now you've got a total smoking ban which's just come into effect -- including bars and night clubs. This is not the New York I fell in love with. I'm kindof disgusted with it.
KD: Do you smoke?
JJ: Yeah! In a bar! [laughs] Everyone except Bloomberg understands that people like to have a cigarette with a drink in a bar. I'm just one of these people that likes a cigarette with a drink. I don't smoke a pack a day or anything, but when someone tells me I'm not allowed to smoke then I really want to smoke.
KD: What are your plans for the immediate future?
JJ: Well we've got a big tour to get through. I don't want to think too much about the future. Anyway, to get through a tour like this, which is gonna be six months, is sortof one day at a time, one gig at a time. After the tour? I dunno. I've got to figure out where I want to live. I'd like to do some more film music, and maybe even something in theater though I don't know what it would be.
KD: You did some theater work in the early days.
JJ: I did do some work playing piano in theatrical productions. I've been approached by a lot of people over the years about doing some musical theater piece, but no-one's ever been able to come up with the right thing yet. I don't want to write a Broadway show. I don't like that style of singing. So I don't know, it would be something more experimental I guess. There's some things that are distantly on the back-burner that I think about, but other than that I don't know. I don't really like to think more than a year ahead.
KD: What are some of the things that you enjoy about non-pop music? What appeals to you about it?
JJ: Beethoven's my hero. Always has been. Beethoven's kindof like the Shakespeare of music. He did it all. He did everything. Everything's there. Tragedy. Drama. Sense of humor. Fun. Beauty. Quietness. Loudness. Everything, and he's kindof an inspirational, heroic figure as well, because he really pushed the envelope in every way. He was so ahead of his time, and he was not understand very well a lot of the time. He was slagged off by all the critics. He also had terrible health problems. He went deaf in his thirties, wrote most of his greatest music when he was stone deaf. Just amazing what this guy achieved. With any music, see here's the thing, you can talk about it but you can't really talk about it. There's a lot about music that is mysterious, and is understood on an intuitive level. It's actually quite hard to talk or write about music, even though lots of people constantly try, because we're fascinated by music. We can't help it. We can't help talking about it, and trying to make sense of it. But the fact is it's kind of like talking about God or something. It's beyond our ability to put into words. Certain pieces of Beethoven, still after thirty years, give me chills, and I don't know why that is.
For more information on Joe Jackson, check out JoeJackson.com
VIEW 15 of 15 COMMENTS
RudieCantFail said:
So... He wasn't in the Jackson Five?
I thought he played for the White Sox.