Back in the early 80s, Adam Ant was the king of the wild post-punk frontier. Mentored by former Sex Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren and his fashion designer partner Vivienne Westwood, the London born art school dropout created a visually vivid world of pirates and dandies which brought color back to the palate of a culturally monotone and economically depressed UK.
Having amassed an avid US fanbase with his music, and after starring in a critically acclaimed West End production of the Joe Orton play Entertaining Mr. Sloane, Ant moved to Los Angeles to pursue an acting career. However the price of fame took its toll. Alongside film and TV roles, he also aquired a stalker, which severely impacted his already fragile peace of mind.
Taking a break from the public eye, Ant moved to Tennessee before returning to London, where an altercation outside a pub thrust him back into the headlines again. Following the incident, Ant pled guilty to a single count of causing an affray. Having been diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 21, Ant received a suspended sentence and court ordered psychiatric care. Unfortunately, due to the relentless nature of the British press, he was forced to pull his life back together under the tabloid glare.
Though his recovery was very public and far from linear with every setback being exacerbated by its salacious documentation by the less savory contingent of the UK press Ant is clearly in a much better place these days. He completed a string of dates in the US and Europe in 2012, before releasing his first studio album in 17 years. The intriguingly titled Adam Ant Is The Blueblack Hussar in Marrying The Gunner's Daughter was released on both side of the Atlantic in January of this year.
SuicideGirls caught up with Ant by phone, after a rehearsal with his new band The Good, The Mad & The Lovely Posse, to talk about his new album and his upcoming US tour, which kicks off in San Diego on July 17th.
Nicole Powers: Ive been watching a lot of recent interviews and performances on online today. Its really good to see you looking and sounding so good.
Adam Ant: Thanks a lot. Weve been touring pretty solidly for about 18 months, so our bands really tight now. Ive got a really good band behind me and it makes it a lot easier. Were just rehearsing, doing a mini-tour of Britain and then coming to the States in July.
NP: Right, you did a series of sold out shows last year. How did you pull things back together? How did the new album, the new band, and the live shows come about?
AA: It was really late 2010. I decided that I really wanted to start playing again so I basically started stripping the songs down to acoustic arrangements on my own, just sort of getting down to the bare bones of it. Various friends joined me for impromptu concerts in various places. Then I did the 100 Club, where I used to play in the punk days, and the Electric Ballroom. Slowly but surely over the course of about nine months I got my band, the band that Ive got now. It was really just a conscious decision to do the live work first. I had the album more or less completed about that time, but I wanted to wait until Id done a lot of live work before releasing it. It was a kind of reverse situation as opposed to just saying well release the album now and then start touring. The albums been in development for the last two and a half years really.
NP: What prompted you to make music and play live again?
AA: Id been doing it from 77 to 85, and I did a Joe Orton play and I got the opportunity to do some acting, which Id wanted to do. I realized you couldnt do both at the same timeyou really have to focus. So I took five years out with that, and then did another couple of albums. But by the end of that I was pretty exhausted with it anyway. Then my daughter was born so I spent five years with her as a house dad. A lot of that time was fully occupied, but Id always imagined making another album. I never thought that was the end of it. I just kept writing lyrics and fortunately Ive got a couple of good mates that have got their own studios in their homes, the primary one being Boz Boorer, who worked with Morrissey. We got together and started writing. It really started with me and Boz together and I took it from there. It was a very privately made record. I didnt have to go in and make the record in one go. It was spread out, which was something I didnt really have the opportunity to do before.
NP: What were the first tracks that you wrote?
AA: The first ones were really with Boz. Marring the Gunners Daughter was one of the first lyrics to come out and Stay In the Game was one of the very early songs. Id had tracks like Hardmentoughblokes in the can for a little while...Then Malcolm McLaren passed away shortly after that [on April 8th, 2010] and I thought itd be a nice tribute to Malcolm to update a song called Whos A Goofy Bunny.
The songs kind of accumulated. Id work one to a certain point and then go back, and then take it in with the various producers, the various musicians I was working with, and finish them. Its a very different, organic record really. It had a life of its own.
I always had the idea that it was a double vinyl, four sides of music with a completely different feel on each side. Ive done that because it took a bit of time to set my own label up, Blueblack Hussar Records. I have done a double gatefold vinyl album and quite a deluxe lyric sheet for the CD. I wanted to maintain the tactile quality of music collection as well as the digital stuff, which seems to be taking care of itselfTheres not as much work involved. I was in no rush to bring it out until I was ready, thats why Ive done a lot of live work really.
NP: The title Marrying The Gunners Daughter I understand refers to the navel term for being thrashed over the barrel of a cannon as punishment, which you see as a metaphor for how the music industry has treated you.
AA: The title is deliberately long because it was a bit like an odyssey. I just wondered what that character that I came up with for Kings of the Wild Frontier would look like thirty years later as instead of a young buck, perhaps if hed walked to Moscow and back with Napoleons hussars. It was a fictional scenario and I did a lot of research into that particular time and the 1812 retreat.
I just thought it was a metaphor for some of the contracts that not just me, but most of my contemporaries [signed]The contracts were just abysmal. But thats a pretty dull subject to lay on the public so I thought it was appropriate to put in a Spaghetti Western sort of title. Theyre the bad guys...But there were some very good people at the record companies that I worked with. Having my own label now, I realize it is a great deal of work to actually get a record manufactured and distributed, but its just not worth 92% of the profit.
NP: You mentioned that Whos A Goofy Bunny is a tribute to Malcolm. Where does that title come from?
AA: It was a nickname that me and Jordan, who used to work at Sex and Seditionaries, who was my best friend she was the manager of the very first Adam & the Ants in 77 thats what she used to call Malcolm, Goofy Bunny. It was a bit of a nickname, but he was a bit goofy. I think there was a misinterpretation obviously over the Bow Wow Wow thing that went down, which was more or less a mutiny which was going to happen anyway I think. But I was very fond of Malcolm. He was a great mentor to meHe had an enormous knowledge of rock & roll, and music in general, and a great knowledge of the structure of songs, the arrangements and the scanning of lyrics. He was very helpful to me crossing over from a kind of Dirk Wears White Socks album, which is quite an art school record, to the three and a half minute single, which was something that I hadnt really focused on.
He said, this is something that you want to do. Dirk Wears White Socks, he liked the record, but it was indie, it was quite a self-indulgent record. He said, do you want that or do you want a hit single? If youre going to write a hit single, youve got to listen to some great hit singles. So he had me listening to some very, very rare rock & roll records, and structures of things, listening to arrangements, which helped enormously. So I thought it was nice to do something for him on the album.
NP: What affect did his death have on you? Obviously when a contemporary like that dies, it serves as a reminder of how fragile, precious, and short life is.
AA: Well Im very, very close to his sons Joe and Ben, and I love Vivienne [Westwood]. Ive known Vivienne since 1976. So I generally feel very close to the family. I was with Joe and Ben around about the time when Malcolm got sick. When Malcolm passed away I got a text from Joe saying that hed gone. It was a very emotional time.
The worlds not the same without Malcolm. Even when he wasnt making music, if there was something going on or some event and they asked Malcolm for a quote, he would always say something that would stir things upHe just thought the opposite way. He was very fearless and he had a great deal commitment. He never planted his flag in any camp. Hed take it to a certain point and then do something else.
He is, in my view, one of the great rock & roll managers. Theres Brian Epstein and Peter Grant, and Malcolm is up there with them but he was far, far more intelligent. He was just a very creative guy, a very artistic guy. He does stand out in the annals of rock & roll. But he was a real hard taskmaster to work with. Hed have you going to singing lessons and stuff, he was quite a traditionalist.
NP: Like you say, his loss went beyond music he was one of the great contrarians.
AA: Yes, you know, it was always very unpredictable with him. He was an agent provocateur in that respect in that he did enjoy the idea of stirring things up, and he was quite fearless in thatYou didnt actually talk to Malcolm, hed hold an audience. With both Vivienne and Malcolm it was an audienceThey reminded me of 19th Century French salon society I was lucky to be around those people. Malcolm was the best-dressed man Ive even known. He was real dandy. He always looked brilliant. He was always dressed beautifully. Very subtle.
NP: Theres another track on the album called Viviennes Tears does that refer to Vivienne Westwood?
AA: Yes, thats one for Viv. It was just nice to do the two together. Shes become part of the English soil if you like. Shes part of the English society now, although shes still got a bit of lead in her pencil. Like Malcolm, shes always had a bit of an edge.
NP: Shes become part of the establishment, even though shes anti-establishment. The establishment seems to have bent to her.
AA: Yeah, she has thisyoud call it stubborn, but I dont think its necessarily that, she just wont be budged on certain things. But shes again quite a traditional person. She works very hard. Shes been cycling and doing the environmental thing [for a long time]. I can remember her cycling up to Sex and Seditionaries in 75 or 76 and has always been into that kind of stuff. But there was always a certain amount of danger with the two of them. There was always an element of trouble there. But Viviennes become this great dame, and achieved success and acceptance on her own terms. Shes a very interesting woman to spend an evening talking toIm very fond of her.
NP: The lyrics say, Viviennes tears flood everywhere she can make your garden grow
AA: Its just an idea that I felt shed been through quite a lot. I think, although she doesnt show it, she took a lot of shtick when she first broke into the fashion world. But its perhaps a metaphor for her, the fact her tears bore fruit, bore some great designs and actually influenced a whole generation of artists like McQueen and Galliano, who took up the banner and took a few risks and took the fashion industry to task.
The attitude of young fashion designers now is a lot more punky due I think to Vivienne and Malcolm. I think Malcolm kind of gets left out of the equation a lot because I think they worked together as a very good team through Seditionaries, Sex and Worlds End, those three phases. I think Malcolm sometimes gets pushed out of that. He was very instrumental certainly in the ideas end of it. Viv was always the one involved in the making of the clothes, but Malcolm did have a great style also.
I think [the albums] a lovely place to be able to dedicate a song to friends and people that have played an important part in your life, and pay tribute to them in a highly personal way I suppose.
NP: A lot of the songs on the album seem to be very personal. For example, in How Can I Say I Miss You? you seem to be talking directly to the mother of your child.
AA: Yeah. I felt after 17 years away there were certain issues to be confronted you know, mental health and some of the problems Ive had with that. I think after 17 years it would have been somewhat cowardly not to address those subjects in a way that left it open for the audience to read into themselves. I kind of feel putting them in a song is the best place, it lets the audience make their own mind up. It is probably the most autobiographical album Ive made, but I felt ready for that. Its like the tenth album, so its about time I suppose.
NP: In the track Shrink you match the words dedication and medication. Why do you associate those two words?
AA: I think medication is vital, and certainly Im a great believer in working with your doctor, and working with whomever you have to work with to feel better. These people are there to help you, and the medication is absolutely necessary. All I say is that there is a situation where youre in a lot of trouble and you do need the medication very badly, but that it shouldnt become a way of life
I was lucky enough to speak to one [psychiatrist] who said, really, youve got to educate yourself in this situation. Because theres so many books on this subject bipolar disorder or manic depression or black dog, or whatever they want to call it and everyone has a different opinion really of it, so really educate yourself and know what the medication does to your actual body and the side effects of it, and try and find the right balance for yourself.
Because everybodys very individual, everybodys problems are unique its not just a clean clinical sweep. Thats why I say [in the song], Is it just me or is it just medication. Sometimes some people will take a particular medication and its absolutely right for them. Sometimes, unfortunately, it can take several types of medication to achieve the right results, which is a balance and thats basically what Im referring to.
NP: I think theres a difficulty with the name of that condition whether you use bipolar disorder or manic depression whereby people who hear those phrases often dont understand how absolutely debilitating it is, and how lost in the world you can be if you have it.
AA: Yeah, Ive been shocked. When I started out coming back into the music business, part of that was doing interviews and promoting, and I had to make a decision whether to discuss it or not. Because you can just say, look, I dont want to talk about it. But I found through choosing to be open about it how many people not only people I was actually being interviewed by were either suffering from it or had family members suffering from it. I dont really know any family that doesnt have some instance of mental illness and feels ashamed, because theres this enormous taboo around it which is based on ignorance and fear. Theres only one thing worse in society than the poor house, and thats the mad house. Thats something thats come out of these discussions, out of the interviews, and the response both through letter and though the media.
Even recently people like Bruce Springsteen, who has been honest enough to come out and say he suffers from depression. I mean, you would never imagine in a million years that someone of that ilk, doing that kind of work, would feel that wayIt takes quite a lot to admit it because it can lose you a lot of work. I mean we have tragedies like Frances Farmer in the 40s, who was given a lobotomy, so it wasnt a particularly popular subject. But a lot of creative people do suffer from it, I think primarily because they have to make a living out of abstract ideas, or looking good all the time, or learning lines and things which can become quite stressful.
NP: Also, as an artist youre constantly exploring your mind and opening up new areas of it for lyrics and ideas. Sometimes even thinking too much can be dangerous.
AA: Yes. Well I think the term bipolar means up and down, and therefore opposites, light and dark. Great songs, great literature, great filmmaking, doesnt come out of just the light. You need the ups and downs, the pleasure and the pain, to come across with meaningful work I suppose, otherwise its just all sort of Teletubbies, you know, isnt life wonderful. I suppose artists are a bit more vulnerable to that because its quite a competitive industry, in the music industry or acting or whatever, but youre also living on your wits. As a songwriter youre going to make records that people get, youre going to make records that people dont get, but youve still got to continue.
Also, on top of that, I think personally speaking I just exhausted myself. I was working solidly for 15 years with no breaks whatsoever. Its bound to catch up with you. I think a lot of artists suffer from that, but also the general public suffers from that as well and they dont really know it. They dont really realize it because theyre not allowed to.
NP: You had to deal with a very extreme stalker situation before the news media even really used the term stalker. Everyone needs to be able to retreat into a safe zone, but I understand your stalker was crawling through your dog door and into your home so you had no area of safety to retreat to.
AA: Yeah, it was just a very bad situationIts quite hard to describe the effect that a stalking situation has on your life. Gladly that position has changed legally. They can do something about it now. But it used to be such that until they actually touched you or hit you or attacked you, you couldnt really do anything. The laws have changed a bit, but theres still a long, long way to go.
I had another one in the UK when I came back here. That does to a degree come with the territory as an entertainer, but I really dont think that anybody has the right to infringe on your life like that. I had a child at the time, my daughter was just born. That was awful. That was just a dreadful, dreadful situation. But gladly thats over and I know what to do next timeThe police can do a lot more about it now than they could then.
NP: The process of your recovery has been very much in the public eye, which has been very inspirational because it shows recovery in a real way.
AA: The most important thing is Ive learned to say no if I dont want to do something, if its something where I dont see the logic of doing it. Im willing to work very hard, but there is a degree where I can just say, No, thats it, and nothing will make me change my mind now. Whereas before, I felt that the major record companies had this charisma, they had a power, really that was all there was.
If you were signed to a major record label, you signed these deals and you paid the price.
Theyd get you to do 20 things when you really only need to have done three. Now I just do the three that I want to do. I wont just do things for the sake of it or just to make the labels quarterly returns match up. So thats been a learning curve. Youve just got to take your time. The luxury of it is taking time between albums. Had Adam & the Ants had a break between the two albums that we made in a two-year period, and the touring and stuff, wed have stayed together. We were just absolutely exhausted, all of us, which was a very heartbreaking situation for me, to leave my band. But even solo I thought Ive really got to keep this going and wouldnt really stop. I have to take responsibility for that. I dont blame anybody but myself. But it is courted by an organization where youre just a cash cow for a while.
NP: And the more successful you are, the more they need you because youre a bigger part of making their next quarter profitable. Therefore the labels have to put more pressure on the more successful artists.
AA: Yeah, thats business. I just feel the term music business is a contradiction in terms. You have to wear two hats and youre not liked if you wear two hats. They dont like to talk to the artistsTheyre not comfortable. That means youve got to get this fictional character called the manager, that I dont think really exists. Thats another myth that Ive discoveredI mean really, any band now, you just need an accountant and a lawyer and you can do it yourself.
NP: Now you seem to have things set up so youre in control of every aspect of your career.
AA: Its a learning curve, I wont say its the most exciting thing to do, to sit through some of the meetings, but I always do tryI dont want to paint this picture of the evil of the record companies, because theyve completely changed now. Were talking about a completely different industry from the industry I was involved with. Im sure people from the generation before me would have even more to complain about, its just dramatically different.
When you realize how much work goes into getting things rightyou cant really blame a record label because theyve got so many artists on their label that youve only got a certain window of time to get a record away. If a record isn't a hit immediately, they move onto the next oneCertainly nowadays, because albums take a lot longer to work, youve got to look long term, a year, 18 months on one record, whereas before if it hadnt gone in the first two weeks, it was like next!
Thats the most difficult thing to handle. Its not necessarily their fault, it was just the nature of the beast. There was just so much product coming out that you really had to stand out. I was lucky, because for a few years there I was selling so many records that I could have put anything I wanted out. They didnt mind. They didnt really interfere with me creatively, but it was not through want of trying.
NP: Theres one album of yours which is very tantalizing because its never actually been released, Persuasion. Thats kind of a tease to have it sitting on a shelf somewhere. I know that a lot of fans would love to hear it. Are their any plans to release it on your own label?
AA: Well, it belongs to a major label who paid for it and then brought in a new A&R guy who didnt really want to know and just said were not putting this out. It was about nine months of work down the tubes. Id worked with the late Bernard Edwards of Chic, who was great, and Larry Blackmon of Cameo, so it was a very interesting record. Hopefully one day it will come out. Id like for it to come out. Thats probably the worst thing that can happen to any artist, when youve actually completed an album. I was actually on tour with itI was on tour promoting the album and they didnt bring it out, so it was the worst thing you can imagine. But I survived that and the record will come out one day, probably, hopefully. But thats probably the worst thing when something doesnt even get the chance to get out thereIt does your head in.
NP: I cant imagine how upsetting that would have been. As a writer, I get upset if an interview doesnt run, and thats maybe a weeks work, I cant imagine nine months of my life being shelved. I cant imagine what that would feel like.
AA: I loved the record. It was a very well made record. I mean, Bernard Edwards didnt make a bad record, and neither did Larry Blackmon. These blokes know what theyre doing. It was just a change in direction. I tried something else, but ironically this guy that came in was like, Nah, nah, and that was that. I then had to change labels. These things are all boring but I think that thats the part of the Marring the Gunners Daughter in my album title.
NP: Although you toured America last year, this is the biggest tour youve done here in 18years what can people expect?
AA: I did a tour of the USA last year. I did 22 shows last year over there. It was really good to bounce back in and play there, and that did very well. Off the back of that, Im coming in and doing double that amount, including Canada.
You never know what to expect. I didnt take anything for granted. I had no idea what the response would be. I was really just doing what I know best, which is to perform live and write. I just went out and played my favorite selections from the repertoire really, dropping in a couple of tracks from the new album. It seemed to have the effect, you know, people came. So Im just going to go back there and do it. I just happen to enjoy playing live. I think its a very natural high to go out there and play live. Ive always enjoyed doing that. I know a lot of artists dont, but I always have done. So its great to be back and playing in the USA.
NP: How mixed has the crowd been between your old fans and people discovering you for the first time?
AA: Well, Ive always tried to avoid the vintage stuff. I dont really go for those 80s packages. I really wanted to stay very clear of that. So I was out there on my own with my stuff, playing my own shows, but I didnt really know what to expect. But, obviously a few original fans, and their kids, but I did a lot of festivals. I did Latitude and several other festivals and that audience is a very young mixed audience because theyre not there, obviously, just to see you. The Foo Fighters will be headlining and youll be going on in the afternoon, so its not necessarily your audience, but if you can catch them and grab their attention, you get this whole new audience. Its a bit of a cross section my audience now, its quite interesting the age groups.
NP: The new single. Cool Zombie spans the decades perfectly in that it harks back to your original sound with the Spaghetti Western, Matthew Ashman style guitar. Its a great modern presentation of the classic sound.
AA: Well the blues is the first guitar I ever learned. I bought a book by a guy called Stefan Grossman on Honky Tonk blues guitar, and was listening to Blind Boy Fuller, Sunny Terry, Brownie McGee and Big Bill Bronzy, so it was really the first music I learned to play the guitar with. But Cool Zombie reflects a time when I actually lived in Tennessee, shortly before my daughter was born. I lived there for a couple of years, so it was kind of the story of that. I felt that bluesy Southern sort of feel to it was again a bit autobiographical. No one really knew about that until the release of this album, and I think they get a bit more of a feel of what this songs about.
It all came from actual events that have been part of my life. I think if you can incorporate those into the music they feel right, they feel natural, youre not forcing it. Its always an experiment. I always try not to make the same album twice, and I think so far Ive managed to do that. Thats not the best way to have a long-term career in the music business. Its better to stick with a formula. All the big groups have a kind of formula, but Ive taken a few turns there. I was quite happy with the response to Cool Zombie and was able to storyboard and direct the video again, and get back into that side of things, which I enjoy.
Adam Ants 2013 North American tour starts on July 17th at the Balboa Theater in San Diego, CA and ends on September 20th at the Hard Rock Caf, in Las Vegas, NV.
The album Adam Ant is The Blueblack Hussar in Marrying The Gunners Daughter featuring the single Cool Zombie is out now. For more info visit Adam-Ant.net/. You can also find Adam on Facebook and Twitter.
Having amassed an avid US fanbase with his music, and after starring in a critically acclaimed West End production of the Joe Orton play Entertaining Mr. Sloane, Ant moved to Los Angeles to pursue an acting career. However the price of fame took its toll. Alongside film and TV roles, he also aquired a stalker, which severely impacted his already fragile peace of mind.
Taking a break from the public eye, Ant moved to Tennessee before returning to London, where an altercation outside a pub thrust him back into the headlines again. Following the incident, Ant pled guilty to a single count of causing an affray. Having been diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 21, Ant received a suspended sentence and court ordered psychiatric care. Unfortunately, due to the relentless nature of the British press, he was forced to pull his life back together under the tabloid glare.
Though his recovery was very public and far from linear with every setback being exacerbated by its salacious documentation by the less savory contingent of the UK press Ant is clearly in a much better place these days. He completed a string of dates in the US and Europe in 2012, before releasing his first studio album in 17 years. The intriguingly titled Adam Ant Is The Blueblack Hussar in Marrying The Gunner's Daughter was released on both side of the Atlantic in January of this year.
SuicideGirls caught up with Ant by phone, after a rehearsal with his new band The Good, The Mad & The Lovely Posse, to talk about his new album and his upcoming US tour, which kicks off in San Diego on July 17th.
Nicole Powers: Ive been watching a lot of recent interviews and performances on online today. Its really good to see you looking and sounding so good.
Adam Ant: Thanks a lot. Weve been touring pretty solidly for about 18 months, so our bands really tight now. Ive got a really good band behind me and it makes it a lot easier. Were just rehearsing, doing a mini-tour of Britain and then coming to the States in July.
NP: Right, you did a series of sold out shows last year. How did you pull things back together? How did the new album, the new band, and the live shows come about?
AA: It was really late 2010. I decided that I really wanted to start playing again so I basically started stripping the songs down to acoustic arrangements on my own, just sort of getting down to the bare bones of it. Various friends joined me for impromptu concerts in various places. Then I did the 100 Club, where I used to play in the punk days, and the Electric Ballroom. Slowly but surely over the course of about nine months I got my band, the band that Ive got now. It was really just a conscious decision to do the live work first. I had the album more or less completed about that time, but I wanted to wait until Id done a lot of live work before releasing it. It was a kind of reverse situation as opposed to just saying well release the album now and then start touring. The albums been in development for the last two and a half years really.
NP: What prompted you to make music and play live again?
AA: Id been doing it from 77 to 85, and I did a Joe Orton play and I got the opportunity to do some acting, which Id wanted to do. I realized you couldnt do both at the same timeyou really have to focus. So I took five years out with that, and then did another couple of albums. But by the end of that I was pretty exhausted with it anyway. Then my daughter was born so I spent five years with her as a house dad. A lot of that time was fully occupied, but Id always imagined making another album. I never thought that was the end of it. I just kept writing lyrics and fortunately Ive got a couple of good mates that have got their own studios in their homes, the primary one being Boz Boorer, who worked with Morrissey. We got together and started writing. It really started with me and Boz together and I took it from there. It was a very privately made record. I didnt have to go in and make the record in one go. It was spread out, which was something I didnt really have the opportunity to do before.
NP: What were the first tracks that you wrote?
AA: The first ones were really with Boz. Marring the Gunners Daughter was one of the first lyrics to come out and Stay In the Game was one of the very early songs. Id had tracks like Hardmentoughblokes in the can for a little while...Then Malcolm McLaren passed away shortly after that [on April 8th, 2010] and I thought itd be a nice tribute to Malcolm to update a song called Whos A Goofy Bunny.
The songs kind of accumulated. Id work one to a certain point and then go back, and then take it in with the various producers, the various musicians I was working with, and finish them. Its a very different, organic record really. It had a life of its own.
I always had the idea that it was a double vinyl, four sides of music with a completely different feel on each side. Ive done that because it took a bit of time to set my own label up, Blueblack Hussar Records. I have done a double gatefold vinyl album and quite a deluxe lyric sheet for the CD. I wanted to maintain the tactile quality of music collection as well as the digital stuff, which seems to be taking care of itselfTheres not as much work involved. I was in no rush to bring it out until I was ready, thats why Ive done a lot of live work really.
NP: The title Marrying The Gunners Daughter I understand refers to the navel term for being thrashed over the barrel of a cannon as punishment, which you see as a metaphor for how the music industry has treated you.
AA: The title is deliberately long because it was a bit like an odyssey. I just wondered what that character that I came up with for Kings of the Wild Frontier would look like thirty years later as instead of a young buck, perhaps if hed walked to Moscow and back with Napoleons hussars. It was a fictional scenario and I did a lot of research into that particular time and the 1812 retreat.
I just thought it was a metaphor for some of the contracts that not just me, but most of my contemporaries [signed]The contracts were just abysmal. But thats a pretty dull subject to lay on the public so I thought it was appropriate to put in a Spaghetti Western sort of title. Theyre the bad guys...But there were some very good people at the record companies that I worked with. Having my own label now, I realize it is a great deal of work to actually get a record manufactured and distributed, but its just not worth 92% of the profit.
NP: You mentioned that Whos A Goofy Bunny is a tribute to Malcolm. Where does that title come from?
AA: It was a nickname that me and Jordan, who used to work at Sex and Seditionaries, who was my best friend she was the manager of the very first Adam & the Ants in 77 thats what she used to call Malcolm, Goofy Bunny. It was a bit of a nickname, but he was a bit goofy. I think there was a misinterpretation obviously over the Bow Wow Wow thing that went down, which was more or less a mutiny which was going to happen anyway I think. But I was very fond of Malcolm. He was a great mentor to meHe had an enormous knowledge of rock & roll, and music in general, and a great knowledge of the structure of songs, the arrangements and the scanning of lyrics. He was very helpful to me crossing over from a kind of Dirk Wears White Socks album, which is quite an art school record, to the three and a half minute single, which was something that I hadnt really focused on.
He said, this is something that you want to do. Dirk Wears White Socks, he liked the record, but it was indie, it was quite a self-indulgent record. He said, do you want that or do you want a hit single? If youre going to write a hit single, youve got to listen to some great hit singles. So he had me listening to some very, very rare rock & roll records, and structures of things, listening to arrangements, which helped enormously. So I thought it was nice to do something for him on the album.
NP: What affect did his death have on you? Obviously when a contemporary like that dies, it serves as a reminder of how fragile, precious, and short life is.
AA: Well Im very, very close to his sons Joe and Ben, and I love Vivienne [Westwood]. Ive known Vivienne since 1976. So I generally feel very close to the family. I was with Joe and Ben around about the time when Malcolm got sick. When Malcolm passed away I got a text from Joe saying that hed gone. It was a very emotional time.
The worlds not the same without Malcolm. Even when he wasnt making music, if there was something going on or some event and they asked Malcolm for a quote, he would always say something that would stir things upHe just thought the opposite way. He was very fearless and he had a great deal commitment. He never planted his flag in any camp. Hed take it to a certain point and then do something else.
He is, in my view, one of the great rock & roll managers. Theres Brian Epstein and Peter Grant, and Malcolm is up there with them but he was far, far more intelligent. He was just a very creative guy, a very artistic guy. He does stand out in the annals of rock & roll. But he was a real hard taskmaster to work with. Hed have you going to singing lessons and stuff, he was quite a traditionalist.
NP: Like you say, his loss went beyond music he was one of the great contrarians.
AA: Yes, you know, it was always very unpredictable with him. He was an agent provocateur in that respect in that he did enjoy the idea of stirring things up, and he was quite fearless in thatYou didnt actually talk to Malcolm, hed hold an audience. With both Vivienne and Malcolm it was an audienceThey reminded me of 19th Century French salon society I was lucky to be around those people. Malcolm was the best-dressed man Ive even known. He was real dandy. He always looked brilliant. He was always dressed beautifully. Very subtle.
NP: Theres another track on the album called Viviennes Tears does that refer to Vivienne Westwood?
AA: Yes, thats one for Viv. It was just nice to do the two together. Shes become part of the English soil if you like. Shes part of the English society now, although shes still got a bit of lead in her pencil. Like Malcolm, shes always had a bit of an edge.
NP: Shes become part of the establishment, even though shes anti-establishment. The establishment seems to have bent to her.
AA: Yeah, she has thisyoud call it stubborn, but I dont think its necessarily that, she just wont be budged on certain things. But shes again quite a traditional person. She works very hard. Shes been cycling and doing the environmental thing [for a long time]. I can remember her cycling up to Sex and Seditionaries in 75 or 76 and has always been into that kind of stuff. But there was always a certain amount of danger with the two of them. There was always an element of trouble there. But Viviennes become this great dame, and achieved success and acceptance on her own terms. Shes a very interesting woman to spend an evening talking toIm very fond of her.
NP: The lyrics say, Viviennes tears flood everywhere she can make your garden grow
AA: Its just an idea that I felt shed been through quite a lot. I think, although she doesnt show it, she took a lot of shtick when she first broke into the fashion world. But its perhaps a metaphor for her, the fact her tears bore fruit, bore some great designs and actually influenced a whole generation of artists like McQueen and Galliano, who took up the banner and took a few risks and took the fashion industry to task.
The attitude of young fashion designers now is a lot more punky due I think to Vivienne and Malcolm. I think Malcolm kind of gets left out of the equation a lot because I think they worked together as a very good team through Seditionaries, Sex and Worlds End, those three phases. I think Malcolm sometimes gets pushed out of that. He was very instrumental certainly in the ideas end of it. Viv was always the one involved in the making of the clothes, but Malcolm did have a great style also.
I think [the albums] a lovely place to be able to dedicate a song to friends and people that have played an important part in your life, and pay tribute to them in a highly personal way I suppose.
NP: A lot of the songs on the album seem to be very personal. For example, in How Can I Say I Miss You? you seem to be talking directly to the mother of your child.
AA: Yeah. I felt after 17 years away there were certain issues to be confronted you know, mental health and some of the problems Ive had with that. I think after 17 years it would have been somewhat cowardly not to address those subjects in a way that left it open for the audience to read into themselves. I kind of feel putting them in a song is the best place, it lets the audience make their own mind up. It is probably the most autobiographical album Ive made, but I felt ready for that. Its like the tenth album, so its about time I suppose.
NP: In the track Shrink you match the words dedication and medication. Why do you associate those two words?
AA: I think medication is vital, and certainly Im a great believer in working with your doctor, and working with whomever you have to work with to feel better. These people are there to help you, and the medication is absolutely necessary. All I say is that there is a situation where youre in a lot of trouble and you do need the medication very badly, but that it shouldnt become a way of life
I was lucky enough to speak to one [psychiatrist] who said, really, youve got to educate yourself in this situation. Because theres so many books on this subject bipolar disorder or manic depression or black dog, or whatever they want to call it and everyone has a different opinion really of it, so really educate yourself and know what the medication does to your actual body and the side effects of it, and try and find the right balance for yourself.
Because everybodys very individual, everybodys problems are unique its not just a clean clinical sweep. Thats why I say [in the song], Is it just me or is it just medication. Sometimes some people will take a particular medication and its absolutely right for them. Sometimes, unfortunately, it can take several types of medication to achieve the right results, which is a balance and thats basically what Im referring to.
NP: I think theres a difficulty with the name of that condition whether you use bipolar disorder or manic depression whereby people who hear those phrases often dont understand how absolutely debilitating it is, and how lost in the world you can be if you have it.
AA: Yeah, Ive been shocked. When I started out coming back into the music business, part of that was doing interviews and promoting, and I had to make a decision whether to discuss it or not. Because you can just say, look, I dont want to talk about it. But I found through choosing to be open about it how many people not only people I was actually being interviewed by were either suffering from it or had family members suffering from it. I dont really know any family that doesnt have some instance of mental illness and feels ashamed, because theres this enormous taboo around it which is based on ignorance and fear. Theres only one thing worse in society than the poor house, and thats the mad house. Thats something thats come out of these discussions, out of the interviews, and the response both through letter and though the media.
Even recently people like Bruce Springsteen, who has been honest enough to come out and say he suffers from depression. I mean, you would never imagine in a million years that someone of that ilk, doing that kind of work, would feel that wayIt takes quite a lot to admit it because it can lose you a lot of work. I mean we have tragedies like Frances Farmer in the 40s, who was given a lobotomy, so it wasnt a particularly popular subject. But a lot of creative people do suffer from it, I think primarily because they have to make a living out of abstract ideas, or looking good all the time, or learning lines and things which can become quite stressful.
NP: Also, as an artist youre constantly exploring your mind and opening up new areas of it for lyrics and ideas. Sometimes even thinking too much can be dangerous.
AA: Yes. Well I think the term bipolar means up and down, and therefore opposites, light and dark. Great songs, great literature, great filmmaking, doesnt come out of just the light. You need the ups and downs, the pleasure and the pain, to come across with meaningful work I suppose, otherwise its just all sort of Teletubbies, you know, isnt life wonderful. I suppose artists are a bit more vulnerable to that because its quite a competitive industry, in the music industry or acting or whatever, but youre also living on your wits. As a songwriter youre going to make records that people get, youre going to make records that people dont get, but youve still got to continue.
Also, on top of that, I think personally speaking I just exhausted myself. I was working solidly for 15 years with no breaks whatsoever. Its bound to catch up with you. I think a lot of artists suffer from that, but also the general public suffers from that as well and they dont really know it. They dont really realize it because theyre not allowed to.
NP: You had to deal with a very extreme stalker situation before the news media even really used the term stalker. Everyone needs to be able to retreat into a safe zone, but I understand your stalker was crawling through your dog door and into your home so you had no area of safety to retreat to.
AA: Yeah, it was just a very bad situationIts quite hard to describe the effect that a stalking situation has on your life. Gladly that position has changed legally. They can do something about it now. But it used to be such that until they actually touched you or hit you or attacked you, you couldnt really do anything. The laws have changed a bit, but theres still a long, long way to go.
I had another one in the UK when I came back here. That does to a degree come with the territory as an entertainer, but I really dont think that anybody has the right to infringe on your life like that. I had a child at the time, my daughter was just born. That was awful. That was just a dreadful, dreadful situation. But gladly thats over and I know what to do next timeThe police can do a lot more about it now than they could then.
NP: The process of your recovery has been very much in the public eye, which has been very inspirational because it shows recovery in a real way.
AA: The most important thing is Ive learned to say no if I dont want to do something, if its something where I dont see the logic of doing it. Im willing to work very hard, but there is a degree where I can just say, No, thats it, and nothing will make me change my mind now. Whereas before, I felt that the major record companies had this charisma, they had a power, really that was all there was.
If you were signed to a major record label, you signed these deals and you paid the price.
Theyd get you to do 20 things when you really only need to have done three. Now I just do the three that I want to do. I wont just do things for the sake of it or just to make the labels quarterly returns match up. So thats been a learning curve. Youve just got to take your time. The luxury of it is taking time between albums. Had Adam & the Ants had a break between the two albums that we made in a two-year period, and the touring and stuff, wed have stayed together. We were just absolutely exhausted, all of us, which was a very heartbreaking situation for me, to leave my band. But even solo I thought Ive really got to keep this going and wouldnt really stop. I have to take responsibility for that. I dont blame anybody but myself. But it is courted by an organization where youre just a cash cow for a while.
NP: And the more successful you are, the more they need you because youre a bigger part of making their next quarter profitable. Therefore the labels have to put more pressure on the more successful artists.
AA: Yeah, thats business. I just feel the term music business is a contradiction in terms. You have to wear two hats and youre not liked if you wear two hats. They dont like to talk to the artistsTheyre not comfortable. That means youve got to get this fictional character called the manager, that I dont think really exists. Thats another myth that Ive discoveredI mean really, any band now, you just need an accountant and a lawyer and you can do it yourself.
NP: Now you seem to have things set up so youre in control of every aspect of your career.
AA: Its a learning curve, I wont say its the most exciting thing to do, to sit through some of the meetings, but I always do tryI dont want to paint this picture of the evil of the record companies, because theyve completely changed now. Were talking about a completely different industry from the industry I was involved with. Im sure people from the generation before me would have even more to complain about, its just dramatically different.
When you realize how much work goes into getting things rightyou cant really blame a record label because theyve got so many artists on their label that youve only got a certain window of time to get a record away. If a record isn't a hit immediately, they move onto the next oneCertainly nowadays, because albums take a lot longer to work, youve got to look long term, a year, 18 months on one record, whereas before if it hadnt gone in the first two weeks, it was like next!
Thats the most difficult thing to handle. Its not necessarily their fault, it was just the nature of the beast. There was just so much product coming out that you really had to stand out. I was lucky, because for a few years there I was selling so many records that I could have put anything I wanted out. They didnt mind. They didnt really interfere with me creatively, but it was not through want of trying.
NP: Theres one album of yours which is very tantalizing because its never actually been released, Persuasion. Thats kind of a tease to have it sitting on a shelf somewhere. I know that a lot of fans would love to hear it. Are their any plans to release it on your own label?
AA: Well, it belongs to a major label who paid for it and then brought in a new A&R guy who didnt really want to know and just said were not putting this out. It was about nine months of work down the tubes. Id worked with the late Bernard Edwards of Chic, who was great, and Larry Blackmon of Cameo, so it was a very interesting record. Hopefully one day it will come out. Id like for it to come out. Thats probably the worst thing that can happen to any artist, when youve actually completed an album. I was actually on tour with itI was on tour promoting the album and they didnt bring it out, so it was the worst thing you can imagine. But I survived that and the record will come out one day, probably, hopefully. But thats probably the worst thing when something doesnt even get the chance to get out thereIt does your head in.
NP: I cant imagine how upsetting that would have been. As a writer, I get upset if an interview doesnt run, and thats maybe a weeks work, I cant imagine nine months of my life being shelved. I cant imagine what that would feel like.
AA: I loved the record. It was a very well made record. I mean, Bernard Edwards didnt make a bad record, and neither did Larry Blackmon. These blokes know what theyre doing. It was just a change in direction. I tried something else, but ironically this guy that came in was like, Nah, nah, and that was that. I then had to change labels. These things are all boring but I think that thats the part of the Marring the Gunners Daughter in my album title.
NP: Although you toured America last year, this is the biggest tour youve done here in 18years what can people expect?
AA: I did a tour of the USA last year. I did 22 shows last year over there. It was really good to bounce back in and play there, and that did very well. Off the back of that, Im coming in and doing double that amount, including Canada.
You never know what to expect. I didnt take anything for granted. I had no idea what the response would be. I was really just doing what I know best, which is to perform live and write. I just went out and played my favorite selections from the repertoire really, dropping in a couple of tracks from the new album. It seemed to have the effect, you know, people came. So Im just going to go back there and do it. I just happen to enjoy playing live. I think its a very natural high to go out there and play live. Ive always enjoyed doing that. I know a lot of artists dont, but I always have done. So its great to be back and playing in the USA.
NP: How mixed has the crowd been between your old fans and people discovering you for the first time?
AA: Well, Ive always tried to avoid the vintage stuff. I dont really go for those 80s packages. I really wanted to stay very clear of that. So I was out there on my own with my stuff, playing my own shows, but I didnt really know what to expect. But, obviously a few original fans, and their kids, but I did a lot of festivals. I did Latitude and several other festivals and that audience is a very young mixed audience because theyre not there, obviously, just to see you. The Foo Fighters will be headlining and youll be going on in the afternoon, so its not necessarily your audience, but if you can catch them and grab their attention, you get this whole new audience. Its a bit of a cross section my audience now, its quite interesting the age groups.
NP: The new single. Cool Zombie spans the decades perfectly in that it harks back to your original sound with the Spaghetti Western, Matthew Ashman style guitar. Its a great modern presentation of the classic sound.
AA: Well the blues is the first guitar I ever learned. I bought a book by a guy called Stefan Grossman on Honky Tonk blues guitar, and was listening to Blind Boy Fuller, Sunny Terry, Brownie McGee and Big Bill Bronzy, so it was really the first music I learned to play the guitar with. But Cool Zombie reflects a time when I actually lived in Tennessee, shortly before my daughter was born. I lived there for a couple of years, so it was kind of the story of that. I felt that bluesy Southern sort of feel to it was again a bit autobiographical. No one really knew about that until the release of this album, and I think they get a bit more of a feel of what this songs about.
It all came from actual events that have been part of my life. I think if you can incorporate those into the music they feel right, they feel natural, youre not forcing it. Its always an experiment. I always try not to make the same album twice, and I think so far Ive managed to do that. Thats not the best way to have a long-term career in the music business. Its better to stick with a formula. All the big groups have a kind of formula, but Ive taken a few turns there. I was quite happy with the response to Cool Zombie and was able to storyboard and direct the video again, and get back into that side of things, which I enjoy.
Adam Ants 2013 North American tour starts on July 17th at the Balboa Theater in San Diego, CA and ends on September 20th at the Hard Rock Caf, in Las Vegas, NV.
The album Adam Ant is The Blueblack Hussar in Marrying The Gunners Daughter featuring the single Cool Zombie is out now. For more info visit Adam-Ant.net/. You can also find Adam on Facebook and Twitter.