Gavin Hood: Wolverine
Gavin Hood became a political filmmaker with his very first movie. In Tsotsi he attempted to redeem a fictional criminal teen in South Africa, Hood's country of origin. He tackled American foreign policy, for better or worse, in his follow-up film, Rendition. The ensemble drama about our government's often overlooked policy of taking terror suspects to foreign countries where torture could be conducted legally, was not a hit financially or critically, but it asked the questions Hood wanted to ask.
The X-Men series has always kept politics in the metaphorical forefront. The comic books portrayed mutants as a persecuted minority. The films featured politicians proposing policy to round up mutants, exterminate them or even try to "cure" them, raising the moral question of who decides what needs to be fixed.
Perhaps Hood is the right filmmakers to explore the origin of X-Men's signature character, Wolverine. Hugh Jackman returns as James Logan, whose self-healing powers and natural claws made him a prime candidate for military work. Thanks to his extended life span, Logan's military career spans from The Civil War to private mercenary operations post-Vietnam. When his old mercenary cohorts threaten his quiet life as a Canadian lumberjack, Logan submits to experiments that give him an adamantium endoskeleton, including new claws.
Hood was eager to discuss the political undertones of his film. He claimed that no previous interview had made the connection between the film's African mercenary missions and his own South African background. These may not be the comic book soundbites Marvel and Fox want to use to sell their movie, but they show the thought Hood put into his first big budget studio spectacle, however the end result is judged.
Fred Topel: Did you bring Africa to the story?
Gavin Hood: Yeah. Let me tell you, obviously it seems like I just brought it because I come from Africa. Actually, what I was trying to do was go all the way with the character of Wolverine in terms of a real arc as a soldier, from soldier in a just war to mercenary in a murky, dirty world from which he wants to extricate himself. Certainly as they run out into the opening battle scene of the Civil War, the idea that I wanted to create was a sense that it is really two guys fighting on the side of right and a just cause and off they go.
Then of course as they proceed through World War I, they're still in a just war but things are starting to get tougher. By the time they get to World War II, still in a just war but they are starting to be more and more affected by battle. One is sort of falling in love with the idea of killing and the other one is becoming slightly alienated by the idea. Then of course you get into Vietnam where it's maybe not a just war and it's a little murkier.
Now, where does Africa come in? By the time they get into Africa, we're really into the world of the mercenary. Wolverine the character, he's now not even fighting. He's been a soldier at least up to now. Now he's just a gun for hire and now he's in Africa as a mercenary.
I do think there's a real world parallel with that, that war has become very murky and mercenaries are very much being used. We've seen over the last half century, soldiers meddling in the affairs of weaker countries and stronger countries sending mercenaries into these places. We always say, when I was in Africa, that the battle for Africa would be during the Cold War. It was a cold war but for us it was a very hot war. The Cubans and the Soviets and the Americans and the British were on different sides backing different guerilla groups and I personally lost friends in those conflicts.
Then of course as they proceed through World War I, they're still in a just war but things are starting to get tougher. By the time they get to World War II, still in a just war but they are starting to be more and more affected by battle. One is sort of falling in love with the idea of killing and the other one is becoming slightly alienated by the idea. Then of course you get into Vietnam where it's maybe not a just war and it's a little murkier.
Now, where does Africa come in? By the time they get into Africa, we're really into the world of the mercenary. Wolverine the character, he's now not even fighting. He's been a soldier at least up to now. Now he's just a gun for hire and now he's in Africa as a mercenary.
I do think there's a real world parallel with that, that war has become very murky and mercenaries are very much being used. We've seen over the last half century, soldiers meddling in the affairs of weaker countries and stronger countries sending mercenaries into these places. We always say, when I was in Africa, that the battle for Africa would be during the Cold War. It was a cold war but for us it was a very hot war. The Cubans and the Soviets and the Americans and the British were on different sides backing different guerilla groups and I personally lost friends in those conflicts.
FT:
If no one else has even addressed it, did you have to pretty much downplay your political interests in the movie?
GH:
Yeah, I don't think I've ever made them overtly known because I think the idea is that you're directing a big action summer blockbuster, but I do think that any movie has themes and ideas that present themselves to the audience. I don't believe there is any movie that isn't in some way political because it presents a world view.
I'll give you a perfect example. In any movie that is simply about good versus evil, and the hero is on the side of good and he's fighting evil forces, that is in my view putting out into the world and certainly into a mass audience and young audience's mind a rather dangerous philosophy, which is that there is good and evil in the simplistic and easily defined way. I think that's a dangerous way of seeing the world because it denies one's own capacity for evil.
I think that for the last eight years, we've had that philosophy very much prevalent in the Bush administration that if you're on the side of good, at least as you perceive it, then you can do no evil. This is classically the philosophy of any fundamentalist group that somehow they are on the side of God. This, as we know, is destructive, whether it be from an Islamic fundamentalist point of view or from a right wing political point of view. People who believe themselves to be good fighting evil are very difficult to reason with. I think that a far healthier philosophy to recognize, in the way that it exists in the character of Wolverine is a bit of a laugh, that one has the potential for violence or evil within one's own being.
I'll give you a perfect example. In any movie that is simply about good versus evil, and the hero is on the side of good and he's fighting evil forces, that is in my view putting out into the world and certainly into a mass audience and young audience's mind a rather dangerous philosophy, which is that there is good and evil in the simplistic and easily defined way. I think that's a dangerous way of seeing the world because it denies one's own capacity for evil.
I think that for the last eight years, we've had that philosophy very much prevalent in the Bush administration that if you're on the side of good, at least as you perceive it, then you can do no evil. This is classically the philosophy of any fundamentalist group that somehow they are on the side of God. This, as we know, is destructive, whether it be from an Islamic fundamentalist point of view or from a right wing political point of view. People who believe themselves to be good fighting evil are very difficult to reason with. I think that a far healthier philosophy to recognize, in the way that it exists in the character of Wolverine is a bit of a laugh, that one has the potential for violence or evil within one's own being.
FT:
Isn't that sort of the whole Marvel model of superheroes?
GH:
That's what's so great about this character or about this movie for me and why I wanted to do it. I was excited by the fact that I would be making a superhero movie in which the leading character is in fact at war with his own nature and questions his own nature and doesn't always like his own nature. That is a pretty positive, in my view, mass audience hero.
It's not the mass audience hero that is the good guy, only fighting forces of evil. This is a guy who recognizes his own capacity for evil and I think that's exciting in a sort of popular culture kind of way. After all, the most famous line from Wolverine, the comics, is "I am the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice."
It's important to be quoted exactly like that. Don't leave out the but. Don't change it to "and what I do isn't very nice." "But what I do best isn't very nice," that line alone just tells you right there that you're dealing with a character that has a certain degree of self-loathing, and to his credit, a certain degree of self-analysis going on.
It's not the mass audience hero that is the good guy, only fighting forces of evil. This is a guy who recognizes his own capacity for evil and I think that's exciting in a sort of popular culture kind of way. After all, the most famous line from Wolverine, the comics, is "I am the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice."
It's important to be quoted exactly like that. Don't leave out the but. Don't change it to "and what I do isn't very nice." "But what I do best isn't very nice," that line alone just tells you right there that you're dealing with a character that has a certain degree of self-loathing, and to his credit, a certain degree of self-analysis going on.
FT:
A big news story surrounding this movie is that a pirated copy was leaked online on April 1. The piracy will forever be a part of this movie's history. Is that something you could address after the film's release, like maybe as part of the DVD?
GH:
Maybe. Hopefully by the time the DVD comes out, the FBI will have concluded their investigation. We might actually know who did this. Of course, I don't know if that'll happen but it might. Yeah, I guess it is strange. We're probably the most pirated film in the history of cinema. What a strange distinction. What we don't know is whether it will or will not negatively affect the box office and we'll never really know.
No matter what the box office is, we won't know to what extent the piracy ate into our box office. So I certainly wouldn't recommend anybody letting their film get out. It's too stressful. I do think it's going to provide a massive push to the industry in terms of how to resolve or how to combat this problem because if we don't resolve this problem, it's going to become increasingly difficult to attract investors to making films because it's just too risky.
No matter what the box office is, we won't know to what extent the piracy ate into our box office. So I certainly wouldn't recommend anybody letting their film get out. It's too stressful. I do think it's going to provide a massive push to the industry in terms of how to resolve or how to combat this problem because if we don't resolve this problem, it's going to become increasingly difficult to attract investors to making films because it's just too risky.
FT:
Clearly it came from within the industry, because who else would have access to an unfinished version?
GH:
Well, I don't know. There are people who hack. There are people who make copies. I actually have a strong sense of how this happened so it's very tempting for me to want to say, "Look, I think this is how this happened." I restrain myself from doing that because I could be wrong and that would be the most terrible thing to suggest that somebody had done something that they might not have done. So the FBI is investigating. Let's find out, if they can, how and who did this? Then we'll take it from there.
FT:
Do you think it's a specific person or a broader element?
GH:
I think we have a strong sense of where and how it happened but we don't know who.
FT:
It seems like the critics are already itching to tear you down before the film even comes out. How do you handle that, so shortly after your debut they were so happy to praise?
GH:
Might happen. A lot of people might tear me down, that's true. You never know. Listen, you do the film the best you can. Just as there's no such thing as a perfect person, there's also no such thing as a perfect movie. There will always be flaws. For me personally, I always find that there are some scenes that I find, "Wow, we nailed that moment better than we ever could've imagined," and there are others where you go, "Dammit, I never quite got that where I'd like to."
It's a bit like a friend of mine who's such a keen golfer. I personally don't play golf, but you don't ever play the perfect round of golf. Life just ain't like that and that's okay. You just keep trying to do your thing and then you've got to put it out in the world and of course people are going to hopefully, mostly love it and certainly have comments where they don't love it.
It's a bit like a friend of mine who's such a keen golfer. I personally don't play golf, but you don't ever play the perfect round of golf. Life just ain't like that and that's okay. You just keep trying to do your thing and then you've got to put it out in the world and of course people are going to hopefully, mostly love it and certainly have comments where they don't love it.
FT:
What current events are you following in the news?
GH:
Well, right now I'm very interested to see what happens with the South African elections. I'm South African so that's really what I'm following at the moment.
FT:
That's not really covered in American news. What should our readers know about that?
GH:
The African National Congress party has had a very strong majority for many, many years and this is the first election where there are other groups beginning to emerge that might eat into the majority that's currently supported the ANC. Some people think this is very sad and the ANC may be splitting apart.
I personally see it as exactly what democracy is supposed to be. I think multiple parties are a good thing and that opposition is a good thing and it fuels debate. So it's fascinating to me to see South Africa becoming, in my view, even more democratic because there isn't just one party dominating the political landscape.
It still will dominate. The ANC will certainly be the ruling party. The question is will it have a 2/3 majority and therefore be able to adjust the constitution if it chooses to, or will it fall short of a 2/3 majority and therefore minority parties will have more influence in the government. So it's just an exciting time for South Africa as it moves into its, what, 15th year of democracy.
I personally see it as exactly what democracy is supposed to be. I think multiple parties are a good thing and that opposition is a good thing and it fuels debate. So it's fascinating to me to see South Africa becoming, in my view, even more democratic because there isn't just one party dominating the political landscape.
It still will dominate. The ANC will certainly be the ruling party. The question is will it have a 2/3 majority and therefore be able to adjust the constitution if it chooses to, or will it fall short of a 2/3 majority and therefore minority parties will have more influence in the government. So it's just an exciting time for South Africa as it moves into its, what, 15th year of democracy.
FT:
Do you still vote in South Africa?
GH:
Sure, I have the mark right here on my finger. This dirty mark on my thumb right here is what's happened to the purple ink that they paint on your nail so that you can't go in and vote again. Apparently it takes ages, it has to grow out. So if you didn't vote, we can see. Yes, I was back home, literally on Wednesday and I flew out Wednesday night. I was back home, I voted and I was doing press obviously for a few days before that about Wolverine. I went and voted and went straight to the airport.
FT:
Do you share how you vote?
GH:
At this point I'm not going to because it's a big thing in South Africa for people to say, "Your vote, your secret." It's one of the things that I plug for people to encourage them to vote. My main thing as somewhat of a celebrity out there is to encourage people to vote no matter who they vote for. So I tend to avoid picking a particular side. I just think it's really important that young people get out and vote because it's a democracy that the battle was hard won, and it's good for people to get out and vote.
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