Ondi Timoner is the director of the documentary DiG! This amazing documentary is about the rock bands The Brian Jonestown Massacre and The Dandy Warhols, and the friendship/rivalry between their respective founders, Anton Newcombe and Courtney Taylor.
Check out the official site for DiG!
Ondi Timoner: Are you an honorary Suicide Girl?
Daniel Robert Epstein: No, Im just a guy who
OT: Are you the guy who asks the questions?
DRE: Pretty much.
What are you up to today?
OT: Im up to a madhouse of stuff, as usual.
DRE: Why is that?
OT: Im doing four projects right now.
DRE: I see youre doing a new one about reggae music.
OT: Yep. Thats the one weve been at but Im also doing a Lollapalooza film and on about new religious movements in America [The Mother of Invention: The History of Jamaican Music].
DRE: What does the Lollapalooza one cover?
OT: Its a combination between the history of and the making of a big, huge US music festival. Were documenting the show and the state of music today. Its also the state of audiences today through the eyes of what was a classic American festival thats trying to come back. Its an interesting film because theres never been a history of that project and it actually was pretty seminal in creating a lot of the tours that are successful today, whether it is the Warped Tour or whoever else. A lot of bands were broken through Lollapalooza so were doing a history of that as well.
DRE: Is Perry [Farrell] involved.
OT: Yeah, Perry asked me to do it. Hes the one who saw DiG!. He was supposed to take a nap but he had to watch it all the way through and then he contacted me. He asked the Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jonestown Massacre to be in the festival because of the film.
DRE: How much did you know about these bands before you started the documentary?
OT: I never knew the bands before I started the film. The film started out about ten bands. It was very much a look at following ten bands over a couple years and their career during that crucial moment where art turns into business. That was what I was looking at. Then I heard the music of Brian Jonestown Massacre and I thought it was some band I missed from the 60s. I was told they were in San Francisco and every label wanted to sign them. So I went up to San Francisco with my brother, David, and we were blown away by them. They showed up late to play the gig because their jalopy had broken down, which was crammed full with gear. They starting busking on the sidewalks and claiming they were going to have a revolution right there and within two weeks they came down to play The Viper Room. I thought Well Ill just put them in my currently existing film. But at that gig they were in a fistfight. I didnt know if it were a pattern or a one-off. But these guys really defined themselves as the real deal and they seemed like they were really making music for the sake of making it. The bands that I was filming in LA at the time had started to look like they were just concentrating way too much on what the business wanted them to be and looking like a solid investment. Then Anton said Forget about the other bands. Were taking over your documentary. He told me to go meet the Dandy Warhols. I went up to Portland and they were another band that was so uncompromising in their aesthetic and also rock stars before anybody called them that. Yet the Dandies were obsessed with the Brian Jonestowns music but seemed to have no idea that Anton was packing the car to go live with them and make songs. It looked like it would be a very inspiring film if I followed these two bands.
DRE: You had to know there would be strife between the two of them.
OT: It seemed that they had very different visions of their careers and how they were going to play out. Courtney seemed to be coming from a much calmer, happier place when recording than Anton did. He would allow himself to do business to achieve and accomplish his goals. His goals were reaching as many people as possible, while Anton had very different goals. I think he wanted people to come to him to form this whole underground revolution with the Dandies. I think he felt like they had somehow betrayed his revolution by becoming successful and then not taking him on the road with them.
DRE: [laughs] Did your point of view get into the documentary or do you think it was more about the bands?
OT: I worked to get my point of view out of the documentary as much as possible. But my goal of making the film was to shoot life as much and as thoroughly as I possibly could so I could take people on that trip with me. Thats why we shot nearly 1500 hours of footage in the first three years and when I started editing in the year 2000, I realized that Id be in the editing room for a very long time. Therefore why not continue with the story when the bands were still very much active. I was editing and shooting every few months to keep up with the story and then also financing the film by doing music videos, EPKs, documentaries, series for television, that kind of thing. But I would just stay in touch with the bands and catch up with them. But when you compress it to seven years and 2000 hours into a feature that looks like we were there for every second so my point of view was actually in an earlier cut. I just lacked a certain compassion for Anton. Of course me as a human being documenting this changed over the years as well. It was very disappointing to us to watch people like Joel have to leave the band and cut their losses after years of contributing to Antons dreams. Anton seems to desperately want recognition but really orchestrated these grand moves that from the outside looked self-destructive but I think it was more like he really cultivates his edge and makes sure that hes not going to be comfortable because he relies on that to make music.
DRE: Anton has attacked you in comments as well.
OT: Yeah, Im the new Courtney. See, the film was made and then I called Anton to tell him. He yelled at me for a few years. When I found out the film had been accepted into competition at Sundance and invited him to come play there. He said You fucked up. So I said What are you talking about? He said You didnt clear the music right. Say goodbye to your sons college education. My son was two weeks old. But then I thought Im now presenting Anton with the biggest opportunity hes ever had at success. In fact, its out of his hands. He cant destroy it. The movie is going to Sundance whether he clears the music rights essentially or not. All his ex-girlfriends say he looks better on screen than he did in real life in terms of his behavior and I actually did clean him up for the film. I had to because narratively it just didnt work. He was too much of a jerk.
DRE: Did the music ever get cleared?
OT: He cleared it. Also I was showing DiG! to the cast of The Real World and one of these guys, a musician in Austin, whos actually going on tour with Anton, said that Anton told him to go see the movie because its going to win an Oscar.
DRE: Did you know that Zia posed nude and pregnant on SuicideGirls?
OT: Right on! Zia is a fantastic woman and shes somebody who was really excited about young girls getting into her as a person to look up to. She was very open and always very gracious with fans and people. Every email that she sends me has some great message that makes me think. Courtney was brilliant to get her out of the caf and train her to be in the Dandy Warhols. Shes a really important part of that operation.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Check out the official site for DiG!
Ondi Timoner: Are you an honorary Suicide Girl?
Daniel Robert Epstein: No, Im just a guy who
OT: Are you the guy who asks the questions?
DRE: Pretty much.
What are you up to today?
OT: Im up to a madhouse of stuff, as usual.
DRE: Why is that?
OT: Im doing four projects right now.
DRE: I see youre doing a new one about reggae music.
OT: Yep. Thats the one weve been at but Im also doing a Lollapalooza film and on about new religious movements in America [The Mother of Invention: The History of Jamaican Music].
DRE: What does the Lollapalooza one cover?
OT: Its a combination between the history of and the making of a big, huge US music festival. Were documenting the show and the state of music today. Its also the state of audiences today through the eyes of what was a classic American festival thats trying to come back. Its an interesting film because theres never been a history of that project and it actually was pretty seminal in creating a lot of the tours that are successful today, whether it is the Warped Tour or whoever else. A lot of bands were broken through Lollapalooza so were doing a history of that as well.
DRE: Is Perry [Farrell] involved.
OT: Yeah, Perry asked me to do it. Hes the one who saw DiG!. He was supposed to take a nap but he had to watch it all the way through and then he contacted me. He asked the Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jonestown Massacre to be in the festival because of the film.
DRE: How much did you know about these bands before you started the documentary?
OT: I never knew the bands before I started the film. The film started out about ten bands. It was very much a look at following ten bands over a couple years and their career during that crucial moment where art turns into business. That was what I was looking at. Then I heard the music of Brian Jonestown Massacre and I thought it was some band I missed from the 60s. I was told they were in San Francisco and every label wanted to sign them. So I went up to San Francisco with my brother, David, and we were blown away by them. They showed up late to play the gig because their jalopy had broken down, which was crammed full with gear. They starting busking on the sidewalks and claiming they were going to have a revolution right there and within two weeks they came down to play The Viper Room. I thought Well Ill just put them in my currently existing film. But at that gig they were in a fistfight. I didnt know if it were a pattern or a one-off. But these guys really defined themselves as the real deal and they seemed like they were really making music for the sake of making it. The bands that I was filming in LA at the time had started to look like they were just concentrating way too much on what the business wanted them to be and looking like a solid investment. Then Anton said Forget about the other bands. Were taking over your documentary. He told me to go meet the Dandy Warhols. I went up to Portland and they were another band that was so uncompromising in their aesthetic and also rock stars before anybody called them that. Yet the Dandies were obsessed with the Brian Jonestowns music but seemed to have no idea that Anton was packing the car to go live with them and make songs. It looked like it would be a very inspiring film if I followed these two bands.
DRE: You had to know there would be strife between the two of them.
OT: It seemed that they had very different visions of their careers and how they were going to play out. Courtney seemed to be coming from a much calmer, happier place when recording than Anton did. He would allow himself to do business to achieve and accomplish his goals. His goals were reaching as many people as possible, while Anton had very different goals. I think he wanted people to come to him to form this whole underground revolution with the Dandies. I think he felt like they had somehow betrayed his revolution by becoming successful and then not taking him on the road with them.
DRE: [laughs] Did your point of view get into the documentary or do you think it was more about the bands?
OT: I worked to get my point of view out of the documentary as much as possible. But my goal of making the film was to shoot life as much and as thoroughly as I possibly could so I could take people on that trip with me. Thats why we shot nearly 1500 hours of footage in the first three years and when I started editing in the year 2000, I realized that Id be in the editing room for a very long time. Therefore why not continue with the story when the bands were still very much active. I was editing and shooting every few months to keep up with the story and then also financing the film by doing music videos, EPKs, documentaries, series for television, that kind of thing. But I would just stay in touch with the bands and catch up with them. But when you compress it to seven years and 2000 hours into a feature that looks like we were there for every second so my point of view was actually in an earlier cut. I just lacked a certain compassion for Anton. Of course me as a human being documenting this changed over the years as well. It was very disappointing to us to watch people like Joel have to leave the band and cut their losses after years of contributing to Antons dreams. Anton seems to desperately want recognition but really orchestrated these grand moves that from the outside looked self-destructive but I think it was more like he really cultivates his edge and makes sure that hes not going to be comfortable because he relies on that to make music.
DRE: Anton has attacked you in comments as well.
OT: Yeah, Im the new Courtney. See, the film was made and then I called Anton to tell him. He yelled at me for a few years. When I found out the film had been accepted into competition at Sundance and invited him to come play there. He said You fucked up. So I said What are you talking about? He said You didnt clear the music right. Say goodbye to your sons college education. My son was two weeks old. But then I thought Im now presenting Anton with the biggest opportunity hes ever had at success. In fact, its out of his hands. He cant destroy it. The movie is going to Sundance whether he clears the music rights essentially or not. All his ex-girlfriends say he looks better on screen than he did in real life in terms of his behavior and I actually did clean him up for the film. I had to because narratively it just didnt work. He was too much of a jerk.
DRE: Did the music ever get cleared?
OT: He cleared it. Also I was showing DiG! to the cast of The Real World and one of these guys, a musician in Austin, whos actually going on tour with Anton, said that Anton told him to go see the movie because its going to win an Oscar.
DRE: Did you know that Zia posed nude and pregnant on SuicideGirls?
OT: Right on! Zia is a fantastic woman and shes somebody who was really excited about young girls getting into her as a person to look up to. She was very open and always very gracious with fans and people. Every email that she sends me has some great message that makes me think. Courtney was brilliant to get her out of the caf and train her to be in the Dandy Warhols. Shes a really important part of that operation.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 6 of 6 COMMENTS
I really enjoyed Dig, which had some killer Spinal Tap-esque lines delivered with absolute sincerity: "You broke my fucking Sitar, motherfucker!"
I wonder what the status is on the Lollapalooza doc is?