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thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 26, 2009 08:07 PM

Weekend at Bernie's III: You're Pretty Much Fucked

A federal judge has ordered disgraced financier Bernard Madoff to forfeit over $170 billion.

Prosecutors say U.S. District Judge Denny Chin entered a preliminary order of forfeiture on Friday. The order forces Madoff to give up his interests in all property, including real estate, investments, cars and boats.

Prosecutor say the government also settled claims against Madoff's wife. Under the arrangement, the government obtained Ruth Madoff's interest in all property, including more than $80 million of property she claimed was hers.

Federal prosecutors want Madoff to be sentenced to 150 years in prison.

Madoff is due in court on Monday for sentencing in his massive fraud case.


-TM

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

JUN 26, 2009 09:24 PM

I think it's hilarious that his lawyers think he should get twelve years. I heard that little nugget on the radio last week as I was driving to work, and nearly crashed the car.

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 26, 2009 09:32 PM

I'll just outright ask...anyone want to explain the Ponzi scheme in simpler terms? The Wiki page just gave me that blank stare.

-TM

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

JUN 26, 2009 09:51 PM

$170 billion. Holy shit. I can't even imagine what I could do with that much money.

Is that enough to buy happiness? Or love?

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

JUN 26, 2009 09:57 PM

thefreak said:
I'll just outright ask...anyone want to explain the Ponzi scheme in simpler terms? The Wiki page just gave me that blank stare.

-TM



His Ponzi scheme, or Ponzis in general?

In general, Ponzi schemes pay old investors' profits with newer investor's money, while the crook takes a big cut. The scheme continues until the crook runs out of new victims, a large number of investors demand their money back, or a bona-fide accounting takes place.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

JUN 26, 2009 09:57 PM

thefreak said:
I'll just outright ask...anyone want to explain the Ponzi scheme in simpler terms? The Wiki page just gave me that blank stare.

-TM



He used the money of new investors to pay older investors, rather than investing everyone's money and making an actual profit.

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 26, 2009 10:37 PM

Stiles said:
His Ponzi scheme, or Ponzis in general?

In general, Ponzi schemes pay old investors' profits with newer investor's money, while the crook takes a big cut. The scheme continues until the crook runs out of new victims, a large number of investors demand their money back, or a bona-fide accounting takes place.


Here's hoping I don't sound too stupid in my simplicity.

So, basically, I get you (Schmo A) to invest $50 in a widget, that widget makes $100 in profit, I keep the profit and just pay you $100 that was paid to me from Schmoes B and C to invest in said widget in the first place?

And, through this, that jackass bilked people for billions?

Yeah, I can imagine why people want to introduce his anus to a chainsaw.

-TM

Ascanius

Ascanius

USA
October 2006

JUN 26, 2009 10:42 PM

thefreak said:
So, basically, I get you (Schmo A) to invest $50 in a widget, that widget makes $100 in profit, I keep the profit and just pay you $100 that was paid to me from Schmoes B and C to invest in said widget in the first place?



This, minus the profit part. You pay A with B and C's money because either you never invested the money in the first place, or you lost it, or whatever. A gets his profit and tells D, E and F how awesome you are. They give you money that you pass on the B and C as 'a return on their investment' and so on.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

JUN 26, 2009 10:48 PM

Ascanius said:

thefreak said:
So, basically, I get you (Schmo A) to invest $50 in a widget, that widget makes $100 in profit, I keep the profit and just pay you $100 that was paid to me from Schmoes B and C to invest in said widget in the first place?



This, minus the profit part. You pay A with B and C's money because either you never invested the money in the first place, or you lost it, or whatever. A gets his profit and tells D, E and F how awesome you are. They give you money that you pass on the B and C as 'a return on their investment' and so on.



Yep. Schmo A gives Madoff $1 million to invest. Schmo B and C give Madoff $1mil each to invest as well. Madoff steals A's money and pays A $100,000 in "interest" out of B and Cs money. Nothing is actually invested. A, B and C then get paid "interest" out of investor D and E's money while Madoff continues to steal from everyone, and so forth and so on until the whole thing collapses under it's own weight.

Kind of similar to a "pyramid scheme".

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 26, 2009 10:50 PM

Ascanius said:

thefreak said:
So, basically, I get you (Schmo A) to invest $50 in a widget, that widget makes $100 in profit, I keep the profit and just pay you $100 that was paid to me from Schmoes B and C to invest in said widget in the first place?



This, minus the profit part. You pay A with B and C's money because either you never invested the money in the first place, or you lost it, or whatever. A gets his profit and tells D, E and F how awesome you are. They give you money that you pass on the B and C as 'a return on their investment' and so on.


Oh, so you would just lie about there being profit or whatnot in the first place.

Well, shit, that chainsaw better be running now!

-TM

Ascanius

Ascanius

USA
October 2006

JUN 26, 2009 10:52 PM

You know this guy pissed away Eli Wiesel's life savings and bankrupted his charitable foundation? You believe that shit?

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

JUN 27, 2009 08:23 AM

thefreak said:

Ascanius said:

thefreak said:
So, basically, I get you (Schmo A) to invest $50 in a widget, that widget makes $100 in profit, I keep the profit and just pay you $100 that was paid to me from Schmoes B and C to invest in said widget in the first place?



This, minus the profit part. You pay A with B and C's money because either you never invested the money in the first place, or you lost it, or whatever. A gets his profit and tells D, E and F how awesome you are. They give you money that you pass on the B and C as 'a return on their investment' and so on.


Oh, so you would just lie about there being profit or whatnot in the first place.

Well, shit, that chainsaw better be running now!

-TM



Right. Your original description involved an actual investment, profit made from it, and investors paid with it (though indirectly); it was a legitimate business. There's no actual investment in a Ponzi scheme; the investors' returns come solely from the money of new investors.

As I understand it, in Maddof's case the money just went into a bank account, and he periodically claimed non-existent investments had made a profit and paid people.

MisterSatan

MisterSatan

Portland, OR
August 2002

JUN 27, 2009 10:39 AM

Ascanius said:
You know this guy pissed away Eli Wiesel's life savings and bankrupted his charitable foundation? You believe that shit?



I'm quoting this because it took me a minute to actually let it sink in.

Holy shit, this alone ought to earn him a special place in Hell.

Princelogos

Princelogos

USA
November 2005

JUN 27, 2009 11:30 AM

Uncle Bernie, ought to be shot, repaired, and shot again, everyday until there was only enough body parts working to keep him alive on life support, but fully conscious. Then he could suffer properly while he listened to all of the testimony by all of his victims over and over again until he died .
Then his remains could be cut up and dry preserved to be sold as momentos on the street corners
like newspapers. TRUST is a BUST ! skull

r00kers

r00kers

Nederland, CO
February 2003

JUN 27, 2009 07:09 PM

Apparently his wife gets to keep a mere $2.5 million. Poor lady. puke

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

JUN 27, 2009 07:48 PM

Well he earned that money fair and square so no one really has a right to...


who am I kidding, take it away and give it to the poor!

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 27, 2009 08:43 PM

Princelogos said:
Uncle Bernie, ought to be shot, repaired, and shot again, everyday until there was only enough body parts working to keep him alive on life support, but fully conscious. Then he could suffer properly while he listened to all of the testimony by all of his victims over and over again until he died .
Then his remains could be cut up and dry preserved to be sold as momentos on the street corners
like newspapers. TRUST is a BUST ! skull


No, see, what we should do is stop @where you said "life support," and then make the Enron guys and all those others that bilked Americans out of millions work to pay Madoff's hospital bills. Pretty much like Scud: The Disposable Assassin.

-TM

Bill_the_Cat

Bill_the_Cat

Vanier, ON
May 2005

JUN 27, 2009 09:08 PM

Ascanius said:
You know this guy pissed away Eli Wiesel's life savings and bankrupted his charitable foundation? You believe that shit?



That's gotta be the the epitome of moral bankruptcy.

BellyJack

BellyJack

I'm lost
May 2005

JUN 27, 2009 09:19 PM

SergeantPsycho said:
Well he earned that money fair and square so no one really has a right to...


who am I kidding, take it away and give it to the poor!



I would be interested in how you have come to believe he earned this money "fair and square". Madoff pled guilty to criminal complaints brought forth by the DOJ.

I haven't read anything at all about what is to be done with the proceeds from this particular criminal forfeiture, but my understanding is they are typically used to fund law enforcement agencies.

Funding the poor would be a novel disposition for these assets, and I'm awaiting a citation indicating how this will be done.

_margot_

_margot_

Los Angeles, CA
December 2007

JUN 27, 2009 09:59 PM

MisterSatan said:

Ascanius said:
You know this guy pissed away Eli Wiesel's life savings and bankrupted his charitable foundation? You believe that shit?



I'm quoting this because it took me a minute to actually let it sink in.

Holy shit, this alone ought to earn him a special place in Hell.



Jesus, how terrible.

beuys

beuys

Christmas Island
February 2009

JUN 27, 2009 10:28 PM

_margot_ said:

MisterSatan said:

Ascanius said:
You know this guy pissed away Eli Wiesel's life savings and bankrupted his charitable foundation? You believe that shit?



I'm quoting this because it took me a minute to actually let it sink in.

Holy shit, this alone ought to earn him a special place in Hell.



Jesus, how terrible.



Wiesel offered the following as a possible punishment for Madoff:

I would like him to be in a solitary cell with a screen, and on that screen, for at least five years of his life, every day and every night there should be pictures of his victims, one after the other after the other, always saying, 'Look, look what you have done to this poor lady, look what you have done to this child, look what you have done.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUN 27, 2009 11:01 PM

thefreak said:
I'll just outright ask...anyone want to explain the Ponzi scheme in simpler terms? The Wiki page just gave me that blank stare.

-TM


It's like getting a new credit card to keep paying off the debt on the previous credit card, then getting a newer one to pay off the last one, and so on.

You're not actually earning any money, but you're financing a lifestyle, as long as you can keep extending the credit.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

JUN 27, 2009 11:58 PM

U.S. Attorney's Office suggests a potential 150 year prison sentence.

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

JUN 28, 2009 03:38 AM

BellyJack said:

SergeantPsycho said:
Well he earned that money fair and square so no one really has a right to...


who am I kidding, take it away and give it to the poor!



I would be interested in how you have come to believe he earned this money "fair and square". Madoff pled guilty to criminal complaints brought forth by the DOJ.

I haven't read anything at all about what is to be done with the proceeds from this particular criminal forfeiture, but my understanding is they are typically used to fund law enforcement agencies.

Funding the poor would be a novel disposition for these assets, and I'm awaiting a citation indicating how this will be done.



We must not be well aquainted, because if we were you'd know that I was joking. wink tongue wink tongue
(I usually speak out on behalf of "the rich" in a lot of threads, and so for me to say the same thing about Madoff then suddenly switch positions would be extremely out of character. I do believe Maddof should have his assets siezed, and maybe redistributed to his victims though)

thefreak

thefreak

NEWSWIRE

Gardner, MA

JUN 29, 2009 09:23 AM

DevilsReject said:
U.S. Attorney's Office suggests a potential 150 year prison sentence.


And that's what he gets.

NEW YORK – Convicted swindler Bernard Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison Monday for fraud so extensive that the judge said he needed to send a symbolic message to those who might imitate his fraud and to victims who need relief.

Applause broke out in the crowded Manhattan courtroom after U.S. District Judge Denny Chin issued the maximum sentence to the 71-year-old defendant, who said he sought no forgiveness and knew he must live "with this pain, this torment, for the rest of my life."

Chin rejected a request by Madoff's lawyer for leniency and said he disagreed that victims of the fraud were seeking mob vengeance.

"Here the message must be sent that Mr. Madoff's crimes were extraordinarily evil and that this kind of manipulation of the system is not just a bloodless crime that takes place on paper, but one instead that takes a staggering toll," Chin said.


-TM

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