"The only reason to make a film or write a play or anything is to entertain." William H. Macy, director
William H. Macy directed his second film, Rudderless. His first was the 1988 TV movie Lip Service and it’s surprising to think he hasn’t directed more. He has been an actor for over three decades with over 130 acting credits. Whether you know his name like a die hard film buff, or you see him and go, “It’s that guy,” you’ve surely seen him act in movies like Fargo, Boogie Nights, Wild Hogs or TV’s Shameless.
Rudderless is the story of a father (Billy Crudup) who lost his son in a school shooting. He moves onto his boat, but finds a box of some music his son wrote and starts playing it at open mic nights. Another musician (Anton Yelchin) convinces him to form a band, but their success gets the attention of other victims of the school shooting.
Macy had written a number of movies, in which he starred for television, like Door to Door and The Wool Cap. For Rudderless, Macy cowrote with Casey Twenter and Jeff Robison on a story that explores overcoming grief and dealing with community tragedies in a productive, uplifting way.
During a break in production on the set of Shameless, Macy called me in my car. When I answered, he said, “It’s Bill Macy.” He lets everyone call him Bill. We spoke about the themes of Rudderless and his experience in Hollywood, with some reflection on his classic roles and the pop culture phenomenon of Filliam H. Muffman (Stephen Colbert’s tabloid name for Macy’s marriage to Felicity Huffman). Rudderless is in theaters and digital/VOD services October 17.
Suicide Girls: Sadly, Rudderless has become even more relevant since Sundance with even more shootings happening, hasn’t it?
William H. Macy: Yeah, that subject is not going away.
SG: Can movies help us talk about things like that?
WHM: Golly, yes, I do. It’s a tricky question. I think it’s a dreadful idea to make a movie in order to further an agenda or teach or any of those things. I think the only reason to make a film or write a play or anything is to entertain. But, I think Rudderless is an example of the best way it can happen. This is an opportunity for people to walk in another man’s shoes, that perhaps wouldn’t happen in any other way except in a film.
SG: That is the best way I’ve ever heard to explain the value of dealing with subjects in a film. It’s not to teach a lesson, but it’s the safest way to experience something without having it happen to you.
WHM: Right. With us, with Casey and Jeff and me, as we were writing this script, it raised all kinds of questions for us. Everything we wrote in the script was our attempt to answer those questions. I said it all along that an acceptable answer is, “I don’t know.” If that’s the truth, let’s operate on that truth. Once the basic outline of the story became real, then it’s just three guys sitting in a room trying to navigate what’s true. What would you do? What makes sense? What’s a possible solution?
SG: Does it speak to the idea that good art can come out of bad things? The music he left behind can still be great even though it came out of this tragedy?
WHM: That’s a knotty question. A lot of people have answered it, and interestingly they say, “Wait, I don’t understand. What’s so bad about playing that music?” And I don’t answer, and they say, “I mean, well, hmm, yeah, I guess you can’t play the music, can you.” They answer their own question.
SG: Was it always going to be music that he left behind?
WHM: Yes, as the story evolved, the story preceded the tragedy.
SG: Could Billy Crudup play?
WHM: Billy plays guitar. I’ll tell you what, he’s such a great actor that I walked away from screening Almost Famous, which is one that I screened to watch films where they have songs in films, films about a band. I was just gathering as much information as I could and I came away from that film saying, “Wow, he’d be a great guy.” He was originally younger than I originally anticipated casting Sam but when we decided to lower the age a little bit, he was number one on the list and I thought, “Well, he’s a great rocker.” Only to find out he’s not a great rocker, he’s a great actor. But he plays guitar just well enough and he sings just well enough. Anton, the same thing. A good enough musician. It’s more about acting. Charlton Pettus, who wrote almost all of the music along with Simon Steadman, was also the engineer who recorded all the songs for us and he plays a lot of the instruments. He advised me, “Show me who you want to use and I’ll tell you whether they can do it.” He talked with Billy a little bit. Billy took some guitar lessons and some voice lessons in New York before we got started in preproduction. Simon called back and said, “You got it, he’s great. No problem.”
SG: Is the soundtrack coming out along with the VOD release?
WHM: It’s out. It’s on iTunes and a couple of other places.
SG: Great! I’m getting it! I’ve been waiting to get it since January. I’m sorry I didn’t check ahead of time but I’ll get it right after we hang up.
WHM: It’s there. It’s there for you, bro.
SG: I remember you telling a great story about how most directors, when they finish a film, end up going to the hospital for exhaustion. How did you avoid falling into that exhaustion making Rudderless?
WHM: I have been around the block enough, I’ve seen enough directors that I knew that I was expending much too much energy for the amount of work that I was getting. I took steps to fix that. I sat down between takes. I did not look at dailies after work. I went to bed. I made sure I got a lotta sleep and I ate. My assistant, Amber Woodard, was on the film and she made me eat. So I took care of my health and I was knackered, don’t get me wrong. But, at least I didn’t need to be hospitalized.
SG: When I think about all the work that goes into a film, I don’t know how anyone could not collapse at the end of it, but do the big guys like Paul Thomas Anderson or the Coen Brothers suffer that exhaustion too?
WHM: Oh yeah, yeah. Well, they’re experienced filmmakers and they know how to pace themselves, but I think that was the biggest revelation, the stunning amount of work it is to direct a film. There’s no one else but you. It’s a director’s medium, as opposed to television which is a writer’s medium. It’s a director’s medium and the load is quite significant. If the film is good, you can hang it on the director, and if it’s bad you can hang it on the director.
SG: Is television directing a little less exhausting?
WHM: They make up for it. One, you don’t have as much responsibility because you didn’t write the script and the TV director has little control over the script. A TV director is more of a hired gun, but that doesn’t make it any easier because they take the page count from about five pages a day and they bump it up to nine pages a day, so it’s equally exhausting. I just did an episode of Shameless.
SG: Is that the first time in five years you’ve directed one?
WHM: First time. First time I’ve directed any TV.
SG: Did having directed Rudderless, or maybe the four years you starred on Shameless, help you prepare to direct it?
WHM: Yes to both questions. I just saw the rough cut and have just started on my cut of Shameless. It’s become revealed to me that I have stuff to learn as a director. Things that I thought would look a certain way don’t look that way. I have a lot to learn, but having done Rudderless, I was much more prepared to do Shameless and having done Shameless I think I’ll be much more prepared for my third film, which I think is going to be a reality.
SG: When you say it doesn’t look the way you thought it would, it’s amazing how we all watch movies and think we can duplicate the things we see. I guess it’s those gifted directors who really know what it will eventually look like on the screen.
WHM: Yes, and the really skillful directors are cutting the thing in their mind’s eye. They understand the vocabulary of the camera very, very well. What I find sometimes is I look at it and I think I know how it’s going to cut together based on the pace of the piece and the shots I chose and the cuts. That’s not always the case. In a couple of scenes in Shameless, it’s not what I thought it would look like at all. No harm, no foul. You go in and you make a third thing out of it. It’s not what I had in mind. If it’s not working with the editor’s first cut, then you make a third thing. You’ll find something that works.
SG: I imagine you’ve been on a lot of big studio productions that get started without a finished script yet. Was it a luxury to direct a film where the script was locked in ahead of time?
WHM: Gosh, I hope it’s not a luxury. It should be the way it is. You’re right. I’ve been on a lot of films, big money films where there is no script on the first day of shooting, or the script is not finished on the first day of shooting and no one gets fired. Could you imagine building a skyscraper where they don’t know what the top floors look like and they’ve already cut the hole for the foundation? People would be fired. I will never do a script that’s not finished. Life’s too short for that kind of tension and danger.
SG: When we come back to Shameless, is Frank a new man after his operation?
WHM: It’s a different Frank and I’m just having the best time playing him. He can’t drink anymore, although he does drink a little bit, but he can’t drink the copious amounts that he’s been doing or he ends up in the hospital. So he smokes a lotta reefer and every pill he can get his hands on. It’s a different character now and I’m just having the best time playing him. He’s at once smarter, better spoken and also mean. There’s a mean streak that’s coming out in him.
SG: You don’t think he was mean before?
WHM: He was sort of a bumbling clown mean. The things he did rarely worked out but now he’s sober so his machiavellian moves are a little more successful. We just had a table read of episode nine and it is fantastic. What a season we’ve had. Great writing.
SG: Are there any taboos left for the Gallaghers?
WHM: Yes. They keep surprising me. I really believe in this story. I think we’ve got three, four, five years left in us. There’s a lot of stories left to tell.
SG: The Fargo TV show has been a great success, rightfully, on its own. Their next season is set in 1979, but if they came to you with an idea like maybe Jerry Lundegaard gets out of prison, would you revisit that character?
WHM: Oh, it’s hard to say. Joel and Ethan are really cagy guys. I must say, if they have an idea, it’s probably brilliant.
SG: It would be Noah Hawley doing the television show, but that’s just fan speculation. They have no plans to revisit those characters.
WHM: Well, let’s spread the rumor just in case.
SG: Did you watch the first season of Fargo?
WHM: I haven’t seen it. I’ve been otherwise disposed. I’m a binge watcher and I’m sure I’ll get to it over the holidays.
SG: It’s been 15 years since Magnolia. How do you look back on that film?
WHM: Beautiful film. I sure would like to work with Paul again. He’s one of the guys that sort of lives in my head. I love his style of directing. I love his style of storytelling too. 15 years, wow. I saw a piece of it the other day. It’s me after I’ve fallen and broken my teeth out. It was just heartbreaking. It’s so beautifully shot, lovely.
SG: In Boogie Nights you worked more closely with Philip Seymour Hoffman. I thought it might be significant to ask now your memories of working with him at the beginning of his rise to acclaim?
WHM: He might’ve been the best of us all. He’s just a stunning talent. I didn’t know he had such demons, although we all do. It’s sad, really sad. It’s hard not to be pissed off with him a little bit. He had a lot more work to do before he left this mortal coil, if you ask me.
SG: You did a superhero movie before the whole Marvel explosion, Mystery Men. Was that ahead of its time, or could it have been different if it commented on all of the movies that came after it?
WHM: I don’t know, I loved it. It was hard to shoot. I’m afraid we drove that director out of the business. We were quite a cast. I thought we’d end up making five or six of them. It sure was funny.
SG: Did you ever get a Shoveler action figure?
WHM: I do have an action figure. The Shoveler. I shovel very well.
SG: I’m also fascinated by Gus Van Sant’s Psycho experiment. Was that a once in a lifetime opportunity to do the same stairway shot that Hitchcock did?
WHM: Well, that was an ill conceived project. It was Gus Van Sant though. If I had that decision to make over again, I’d make the same decision. I think he hung the moon. I love Gus’s films. He’s a stunning director, stunning storyteller, but it was odd and it showed what a kook Hitchcock was. Some of the weird things he did in the original.
SG: This might be a silly question, but how do you decide whether to have a mustache or not for a character?
WHM: Haha. I don’t know. I think my long boring actor answer is you figure out what the through line is, what the character wants, and then you dress accordingly and you cut your hair accordingly and you grow your face accordingly. It depends on what you want. But the shorter nonactor answer is what would look cool? What have I done recently.
SG: One of my favorite jokes is Stephen Colbert calling you and your wife Filliam H. Muffman. Did you know Stephen before he did that?
WHM: Well, I was aware of his show and we’ve adopted the name. The Atlantic Theater Company did a huge remodel, we donated some money so there’s a Filliam H. Muffman dressing room. Young actors will be looking at that and saying, “Who was Filliam H. Muffman?”