Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason magazine and the author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use. I figured that since I like marijuana and you people like marijuana it was time to get an experts opinion on where drug reform is right now and where it should go in America.
Buy Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use
Daniel Robert Epstein: Right now, do you see drug reform related to marijuana ever happening?
Jacob Sullum: I think the most realistic way that serious marijuana reform is going to happen is going to be on the state level. If the federal government would step back and respect the constitution and allow states to experiment with different approaches then you might see some serious changes. You are already beginning to see things like medical marijuana at the state level. But the problem is that the federal government does not want to allow that to happen. There is a big clash in California between what the state wants and what the federal government wants. They cant even tolerate the idea that a grandmother with cancer getting medical marijuana to relieve the effects of chemotherapy or someone with AIDS smoking marijuana so they can get an appetite and stop throwing up. If they cant tolerate that then how could the federal government allow a state to do something like what they were considering Nevada. Nevada was considering allowing retailers to sell marijuana for medical and recreational use of marijuana. Thats the kind of thing that has to happen to allow us some idea of the consequences of changing the drug laws. If a state was to do something like that and it was a disaster, well we would learn from that. If everyone is stoned all the time and no one gets any work done then that proves that the drug warriors were right. On the other hand if they do it and its not a disaster then you learn from that too. If in fact they end up saving money, saving law enforcement resources and are happy with their experience then other states might follow suit. But of course thats what the federal government is worried about. They cant even tolerate Canada changing possession of small amounts of marijuana to a non-criminal offense.
DRE: Do you think that the people who fill politicians coffers just dont want marijuana legalized?
JS: There are a lot of vested interests in maintaining the war on drugs. There are a lot of peoples whos lives depend on it, ranging from drug agents to prison guards to prosecutors and the many politicians who have built their careers on being gung-ho about the war on drugs. There is also the whole pharmaceutical industry. Certainly a company thats makes a drug that is used to make people relax, but you have to get it from a doctor, is going to be worried about the legalization of marijuana. You cant patent marijuana and it would be very cheap if its made legal. The pharmaceutical industry has been very supportive of anti-drug propaganda.
DRE: How is it in countries where marijuana is quasi-legal?
JS: There are no places where it is quasi-legal. In the Netherlands marijuana isnt even officially legal there. Certainly large scale trafficking of other drugs is illegal there too.
DRE: I think the Janet Jackson incident surprised a lot of liberals into realizing there is still a very puritan attitude in America. How much does that contribute to marijuana staying illegal?
JS: I think it does. But whats interesting to me is that you will find people on the right who are not necessarily puritanical when it comes to something like drinking alcohol or even tobacco. But the other drugs are not ok. For them its ok to get something from your doctor to relieve anxiety or even help you socialize better. So there are people who are not completely opposed to drugs even though they will describe themselves as anti-drug but they just dont like certain drugs. Thats what I try to work with because its very hard to convince someone who is opposed to all drugs like a Mormon. But for the most part, the people who support the drug warriors are not opposed to drugs across the board. They believe in moderate and responsible drinking so I try to build on that and point out that they are making a false distinction. Its an empirical mistake. They are not properly applying the principles that they have.
DRE: Have you seen results from any of the books and columns you have written?
JS: My hope is that I would reach people who are in the middle. I do get people writing to me that have said they had never seen it put that way before. I find that encouraging. When Ive done radio and TV the response has actually been overwhelmingly positive. Its interesting because the response to my book on marijuana was more positive than the response to my book on smoking. In both cases you get people who call into radio shows to yell at me but fewer in the case of marijuana. I think part of that is that people assume we will always have drug prohibition. The policy is not really in flux, therefore the people who really support the war on drugs are not highly motivated to call in and argue with me. Its also important to make responsible drug users feel like they are not alone but also my hope is that people who can afford to will start talking about it. Many people cant talk about their drug use because they will get fired from their jobs. I can talk about it because my employer wont fire me over it. I hope that if more people talk about this then something similar will happen to when gay people started coming out of the closet. People started to recognize that they do know gay people and they even like them. It becomes more personal and concrete to them. They can see that decent people are drug users. Its not conclusive proof or anything but it makes a big impact.
DRE: I spoke to Susan Wells, author of A Drug War Carol. A Drug War Carol is a comic book that is in favor of medical marijuana mostly for medical reasons. I asked her flat out if she smokes marijuana and she said that she had never even tried it. How about yourself?
JS: I dont do many drugs anymore, pot once in a while. But I probably would do it more [laughs] if I had more time.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Buy Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use
Daniel Robert Epstein: Right now, do you see drug reform related to marijuana ever happening?
Jacob Sullum: I think the most realistic way that serious marijuana reform is going to happen is going to be on the state level. If the federal government would step back and respect the constitution and allow states to experiment with different approaches then you might see some serious changes. You are already beginning to see things like medical marijuana at the state level. But the problem is that the federal government does not want to allow that to happen. There is a big clash in California between what the state wants and what the federal government wants. They cant even tolerate the idea that a grandmother with cancer getting medical marijuana to relieve the effects of chemotherapy or someone with AIDS smoking marijuana so they can get an appetite and stop throwing up. If they cant tolerate that then how could the federal government allow a state to do something like what they were considering Nevada. Nevada was considering allowing retailers to sell marijuana for medical and recreational use of marijuana. Thats the kind of thing that has to happen to allow us some idea of the consequences of changing the drug laws. If a state was to do something like that and it was a disaster, well we would learn from that. If everyone is stoned all the time and no one gets any work done then that proves that the drug warriors were right. On the other hand if they do it and its not a disaster then you learn from that too. If in fact they end up saving money, saving law enforcement resources and are happy with their experience then other states might follow suit. But of course thats what the federal government is worried about. They cant even tolerate Canada changing possession of small amounts of marijuana to a non-criminal offense.
DRE: Do you think that the people who fill politicians coffers just dont want marijuana legalized?
JS: There are a lot of vested interests in maintaining the war on drugs. There are a lot of peoples whos lives depend on it, ranging from drug agents to prison guards to prosecutors and the many politicians who have built their careers on being gung-ho about the war on drugs. There is also the whole pharmaceutical industry. Certainly a company thats makes a drug that is used to make people relax, but you have to get it from a doctor, is going to be worried about the legalization of marijuana. You cant patent marijuana and it would be very cheap if its made legal. The pharmaceutical industry has been very supportive of anti-drug propaganda.
DRE: How is it in countries where marijuana is quasi-legal?
JS: There are no places where it is quasi-legal. In the Netherlands marijuana isnt even officially legal there. Certainly large scale trafficking of other drugs is illegal there too.
DRE: I think the Janet Jackson incident surprised a lot of liberals into realizing there is still a very puritan attitude in America. How much does that contribute to marijuana staying illegal?
JS: I think it does. But whats interesting to me is that you will find people on the right who are not necessarily puritanical when it comes to something like drinking alcohol or even tobacco. But the other drugs are not ok. For them its ok to get something from your doctor to relieve anxiety or even help you socialize better. So there are people who are not completely opposed to drugs even though they will describe themselves as anti-drug but they just dont like certain drugs. Thats what I try to work with because its very hard to convince someone who is opposed to all drugs like a Mormon. But for the most part, the people who support the drug warriors are not opposed to drugs across the board. They believe in moderate and responsible drinking so I try to build on that and point out that they are making a false distinction. Its an empirical mistake. They are not properly applying the principles that they have.
DRE: Have you seen results from any of the books and columns you have written?
JS: My hope is that I would reach people who are in the middle. I do get people writing to me that have said they had never seen it put that way before. I find that encouraging. When Ive done radio and TV the response has actually been overwhelmingly positive. Its interesting because the response to my book on marijuana was more positive than the response to my book on smoking. In both cases you get people who call into radio shows to yell at me but fewer in the case of marijuana. I think part of that is that people assume we will always have drug prohibition. The policy is not really in flux, therefore the people who really support the war on drugs are not highly motivated to call in and argue with me. Its also important to make responsible drug users feel like they are not alone but also my hope is that people who can afford to will start talking about it. Many people cant talk about their drug use because they will get fired from their jobs. I can talk about it because my employer wont fire me over it. I hope that if more people talk about this then something similar will happen to when gay people started coming out of the closet. People started to recognize that they do know gay people and they even like them. It becomes more personal and concrete to them. They can see that decent people are drug users. Its not conclusive proof or anything but it makes a big impact.
DRE: I spoke to Susan Wells, author of A Drug War Carol. A Drug War Carol is a comic book that is in favor of medical marijuana mostly for medical reasons. I asked her flat out if she smokes marijuana and she said that she had never even tried it. How about yourself?
JS: I dont do many drugs anymore, pot once in a while. But I probably would do it more [laughs] if I had more time.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
I figured that since I like marijuana and you people like marijuana it was time to get an experts opinion on where drug reform is right now and where it should go in America.
I don't like marijuana, but I like Jacob Sullum. And marijuana should be totally, completely, 100% legal.
Sullum's 2003 interview with Bill O'Reilly actually provided proof that "O'Reilly is a bully and a jerk." I guess we didn't really need a graph to tell us that, though...