Maybe you dont know the name Greg Graffin offhand but everyone whos anyone knows what Bad Religion is. They are the seminal punk band started in Los Angeles in 1980 on Epitaph Records which was formed by BR founding member Brett Gurewitz.
I got a chance to talk with BR band leader Greg Graffin just a few weeks before they went on their most recent tour. Graffin didnt have anything specific to promote but both of us just thought it was a chance to let the SG community rip down the curtain and see what the man with the Bad Religion plan is up to.
Check out the website for Bad Religion.
Daniel Robert Epstein: Hows the touring going?
Greg Graffin: The last was good. We did about 10 shows in September and October. Weve been kind of quiet all summer. We did a big tour in the spring for seven weeks in North America. Then we took off for the rest of the summer so I could finish my PhD.
DRE: How did that go?
GG: I just finished.
DRE: I saw a bunch of majors that people thought you had. Was it geology or paleontology?
GG: That was my masters degree. For my PhD it was evolution and religion.
DRE: How does all that impact on your music?
GG: Well Ive been singing half my life in Bad Religion. Its about religion. Evolution was always kind of a religion to me so for PhD I finally brought together the two halves of my life and synthesize them into one piece of work.
DRE: Why was your education so important to you?
GG: Life is an education to me. If you dont continue to learn you end up like Vanilla Ice. When youre music career is over you have nothing. Music has been a gift. The fact that you can do it as a career has been an incredible privilege that only a few can enjoy and even so I know its temporary. Maybe temporary is the wrong word because I might do it my whole life. But theres more to life. Music is only part of life its not a complete life. The development of the mind is just as important as performance.
DRE: What has been the biggest change youve seen in the punk scene since you started?
GG: I guess the biggest change is that you can know look like a punk and talk about your feelings. How society is no longer the focus. It used to be that punk bands were all talking about society. Now punk bands can get up there and talk about their girlfriends, to blame their misery on their girlfriends.
Look its a change and I dont criticize change. To me its neither good nor bad but recognizing that there are things they talk about today that would not have been talked about in the early days of punk.
DRE: In the 1980s you mentioned that Bad Religion was just a hobby.
GG: At that time I was taking academia pretty seriously and Bad Religion was kind of a hobby. Then in the 90s Bad Religion became my career and academia became my hobby. Now in the 2000s academia became important again but now Im doing both at a very high level.
DRE: I also read that you said that if Bad Religion had a hit on the scale of Nirvanas hits that the band might not be around today.
GG: Thats possible but I could see how it would be possible. A lot of bands peak early and its very hard when that happens to come back from that and still be viable.
DRE: What is it about success that makes that happen?
GG: I really dont know. Maybe its just mathematical or logic that once you reach an early peak you spend the rest of your life struggling to get back to that point. Thats the kind of a desperation that Bad Religion has never had to worry about. We just do our own thing and gradually built up a large following. We still havent released our masterpiece.
DRE: A lot of people might disagree with that.
GG: I guess. We always joke about that now. Onstage we always joke and say Now we are going to play some of our early good stuff. People always cheer. Even though we turned things around with The Process Of Belief last year because a lot of people saw that as a great return to form.
DRE: Does money kill the anarchist spirit?
GG: Anarchy was never really part of my world view even when I was a teenager. It was more like a cool symbol to paint on your leather jacket. The actual spirit of Southern California punk, which is what we were part of, is more like the opposite of anarchy. It was do it yourself and try to build something from scratch that will have future lasting value. Anarchy is about disorder and chaos. I think that was more common in England and San Francisco.
DRE: The last Bad Religion show I went to had a lot of young kids there. I wanted to bust some heads.
GG: [laughs] Dont go busting teenagers heads. I think were really fortunate. I dont know how it happened but there are still a lot of young people discovering Bad Religion every year. I guess what we have to say is still pretty appealing.
DRE: Are they the ones screaming for the old stuff?
GG: Yeah thats the funny thing because they never had a chance to hear it when we put it out. But I also want to say that we dont play music for teenagers and its not the average teenager thats interested in that. Its the fringe teenagers like the people who pose for Suicide Girls. The people who arent part of the mainstream culture. Thats why I think they are more thoughtful and understanding that going with the trend is not going to bring you any happiness. Because of that weve been able to write our style of music and our topics. Were writing about things that follow you all through like how do I fit in with this social scene, how am I a developing individual within this social group, how can I maintain my identity and still find happiness as a social person.
DRE: Believe it or not The Ring and The Pirates of the Caribbean are pretty big on Suicide Girls. I know youve worked with [director] Gore Verbinski on your videos.
GG: Yeah we were one of his first filmic enterprises.
DRE: What is he like to work with?
GG: Hes a really good friend of ours. Its like asking you what your friends are like. I cant really see him as the visionary; hes just a guy we hang out with.
DRE: Hes just the guy you dump a beer on.
GG: Yeah hes a lot of fun. In fact he was in a band called Little Kings that was on Epitaph.
DRE: Do you still feel as confident in your songwriting as when you first started?
GG: Oh yeah. More so even. Its a craft you get better at over the years. Sometimes I forget that I shouldnt think so much and I should just let go.
DRE: Do you hear that clicking?
GG: Yeah I do. I have a digital phone.
DRE: I thought someone was tapping into this conversation.
GG: The CIA doesnt care that much about what I say.
DRE: What was it like playing with Brett Gurewitz again?
GG: Its great to have him back in the band. Were very happy that he got his life turned around. It was his decision to come back into the band. We were just happy he did that.
DRE: How much has your views changed of America in the past few years?
GG: Its just gotten more and more cynical. As you get older, read and understand more all those hunches you had as teenager turn out to be true [laughs]. Jeez the world really does suck if youre American. I should say that the world thinks you suck if youre an American. Right now were probably the most hated people and I think thats a shame because America should be a leader. It should lead by example and not be hated.
DRE: Were not leading around were just forcing people around with a sharp stick.
GG: Punkers were always vehemently against bullies. To be part of a country thats being perceived as a bully makes it a great time to write punk songs.
DRE: Has Bad Religions sound changed much over the years?
GG: It has. I think I have gotten to be a better singer and the guys have gotten better at playing their instruments. We still produce our albums ourselves by and large so weve gotten better at recording. But were also very conscious of keeping it very raw, not overproduced and we try to make it as true to the original style as possible.
DRE: Have you ever slept with a Goth girl?
GG: In the early days there was no distinction between Goth and punk girls. Bad Religion has a lot of Goth credibility because on our first album cover we put a huge woodcut on the back of our first album. That became a symbol for Bad Religion. So in the early days yes I was with a lot of Goth girls.
DRE: Whats good about Goth girls in bed?
GG: Im not sure their style dictates how good or bad they are in bed.
DRE: So they never tried to stab you?
GG: No in fact some of them are just too disturbed to be any good in bed. Theyre strictly for show.
DRE: Whats your favorite pornography?
GG: Very plain. Regular porno. Im not into urination or defecation or S & M or anything that could potentially get me in trouble with the FBI.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
I got a chance to talk with BR band leader Greg Graffin just a few weeks before they went on their most recent tour. Graffin didnt have anything specific to promote but both of us just thought it was a chance to let the SG community rip down the curtain and see what the man with the Bad Religion plan is up to.
Check out the website for Bad Religion.
Daniel Robert Epstein: Hows the touring going?
Greg Graffin: The last was good. We did about 10 shows in September and October. Weve been kind of quiet all summer. We did a big tour in the spring for seven weeks in North America. Then we took off for the rest of the summer so I could finish my PhD.
DRE: How did that go?
GG: I just finished.
DRE: I saw a bunch of majors that people thought you had. Was it geology or paleontology?
GG: That was my masters degree. For my PhD it was evolution and religion.
DRE: How does all that impact on your music?
GG: Well Ive been singing half my life in Bad Religion. Its about religion. Evolution was always kind of a religion to me so for PhD I finally brought together the two halves of my life and synthesize them into one piece of work.
DRE: Why was your education so important to you?
GG: Life is an education to me. If you dont continue to learn you end up like Vanilla Ice. When youre music career is over you have nothing. Music has been a gift. The fact that you can do it as a career has been an incredible privilege that only a few can enjoy and even so I know its temporary. Maybe temporary is the wrong word because I might do it my whole life. But theres more to life. Music is only part of life its not a complete life. The development of the mind is just as important as performance.
DRE: What has been the biggest change youve seen in the punk scene since you started?
GG: I guess the biggest change is that you can know look like a punk and talk about your feelings. How society is no longer the focus. It used to be that punk bands were all talking about society. Now punk bands can get up there and talk about their girlfriends, to blame their misery on their girlfriends.
Look its a change and I dont criticize change. To me its neither good nor bad but recognizing that there are things they talk about today that would not have been talked about in the early days of punk.
DRE: In the 1980s you mentioned that Bad Religion was just a hobby.
GG: At that time I was taking academia pretty seriously and Bad Religion was kind of a hobby. Then in the 90s Bad Religion became my career and academia became my hobby. Now in the 2000s academia became important again but now Im doing both at a very high level.
DRE: I also read that you said that if Bad Religion had a hit on the scale of Nirvanas hits that the band might not be around today.
GG: Thats possible but I could see how it would be possible. A lot of bands peak early and its very hard when that happens to come back from that and still be viable.
DRE: What is it about success that makes that happen?
GG: I really dont know. Maybe its just mathematical or logic that once you reach an early peak you spend the rest of your life struggling to get back to that point. Thats the kind of a desperation that Bad Religion has never had to worry about. We just do our own thing and gradually built up a large following. We still havent released our masterpiece.
DRE: A lot of people might disagree with that.
GG: I guess. We always joke about that now. Onstage we always joke and say Now we are going to play some of our early good stuff. People always cheer. Even though we turned things around with The Process Of Belief last year because a lot of people saw that as a great return to form.
DRE: Does money kill the anarchist spirit?
GG: Anarchy was never really part of my world view even when I was a teenager. It was more like a cool symbol to paint on your leather jacket. The actual spirit of Southern California punk, which is what we were part of, is more like the opposite of anarchy. It was do it yourself and try to build something from scratch that will have future lasting value. Anarchy is about disorder and chaos. I think that was more common in England and San Francisco.
DRE: The last Bad Religion show I went to had a lot of young kids there. I wanted to bust some heads.
GG: [laughs] Dont go busting teenagers heads. I think were really fortunate. I dont know how it happened but there are still a lot of young people discovering Bad Religion every year. I guess what we have to say is still pretty appealing.
DRE: Are they the ones screaming for the old stuff?
GG: Yeah thats the funny thing because they never had a chance to hear it when we put it out. But I also want to say that we dont play music for teenagers and its not the average teenager thats interested in that. Its the fringe teenagers like the people who pose for Suicide Girls. The people who arent part of the mainstream culture. Thats why I think they are more thoughtful and understanding that going with the trend is not going to bring you any happiness. Because of that weve been able to write our style of music and our topics. Were writing about things that follow you all through like how do I fit in with this social scene, how am I a developing individual within this social group, how can I maintain my identity and still find happiness as a social person.
DRE: Believe it or not The Ring and The Pirates of the Caribbean are pretty big on Suicide Girls. I know youve worked with [director] Gore Verbinski on your videos.
GG: Yeah we were one of his first filmic enterprises.
DRE: What is he like to work with?
GG: Hes a really good friend of ours. Its like asking you what your friends are like. I cant really see him as the visionary; hes just a guy we hang out with.
DRE: Hes just the guy you dump a beer on.
GG: Yeah hes a lot of fun. In fact he was in a band called Little Kings that was on Epitaph.
DRE: Do you still feel as confident in your songwriting as when you first started?
GG: Oh yeah. More so even. Its a craft you get better at over the years. Sometimes I forget that I shouldnt think so much and I should just let go.
DRE: Do you hear that clicking?
GG: Yeah I do. I have a digital phone.
DRE: I thought someone was tapping into this conversation.
GG: The CIA doesnt care that much about what I say.
DRE: What was it like playing with Brett Gurewitz again?
GG: Its great to have him back in the band. Were very happy that he got his life turned around. It was his decision to come back into the band. We were just happy he did that.
DRE: How much has your views changed of America in the past few years?
GG: Its just gotten more and more cynical. As you get older, read and understand more all those hunches you had as teenager turn out to be true [laughs]. Jeez the world really does suck if youre American. I should say that the world thinks you suck if youre an American. Right now were probably the most hated people and I think thats a shame because America should be a leader. It should lead by example and not be hated.
DRE: Were not leading around were just forcing people around with a sharp stick.
GG: Punkers were always vehemently against bullies. To be part of a country thats being perceived as a bully makes it a great time to write punk songs.
DRE: Has Bad Religions sound changed much over the years?
GG: It has. I think I have gotten to be a better singer and the guys have gotten better at playing their instruments. We still produce our albums ourselves by and large so weve gotten better at recording. But were also very conscious of keeping it very raw, not overproduced and we try to make it as true to the original style as possible.
DRE: Have you ever slept with a Goth girl?
GG: In the early days there was no distinction between Goth and punk girls. Bad Religion has a lot of Goth credibility because on our first album cover we put a huge woodcut on the back of our first album. That became a symbol for Bad Religion. So in the early days yes I was with a lot of Goth girls.
DRE: Whats good about Goth girls in bed?
GG: Im not sure their style dictates how good or bad they are in bed.
DRE: So they never tried to stab you?
GG: No in fact some of them are just too disturbed to be any good in bed. Theyre strictly for show.
DRE: Whats your favorite pornography?
GG: Very plain. Regular porno. Im not into urination or defecation or S & M or anything that could potentially get me in trouble with the FBI.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
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PS sorry about the spelling but in totaly stoned.