For everyone who ever fantasized about that little red-haired girl or had an ugly brother named Spike, prepare to do the Snoopy dance. Over the next 12 years Fantagraphics will be releasing The Complete Peanuts. The first volume will include all the strips from 1950, 1951, and 1952, but subsequent volumes will each comprise exactly two years. This has been a passion project for Fantagraphics publisher Gary Groth and he hired the ultimate Peanuts fanatic, Seth of Palookaville fame, to design the books.
For me personally, Peanuts has always been a mainstay in my life. Before I ever picked up my first comic book I was devouring the small Peanuts paperbacks, literally and figuratively [I used to eat paper]. Now to finally be able to see them all in perfect condition is wonderful.
I got a chance to talk with Groth about the Peanuts books, the firing of Milo George and Johnny Ryan.
Buy Peanuts directly from Fantagraphics
Daniel Robert Epstein: How tough was it to get the rights to do the Peanuts books?
Gary Groth: Once I got [Charles Schulz's widow] Jeannie Schulz onboard it wasnt tough. Prior to that when I spoke to Sparky [Charles Schulz's nickname] about it in 1997 I was going through the United Media channels just like any licensor, which was incredibly intimidating. They sent me a one-pound pile of paper to fill out. That was so intimidating I set it aside for a while. Then he died unexpectedly, I contacted Jeannie and she cut through the red tape because she wanted it to happen. After that it was pretty smooth sailing.
DRE: I read that he might not have been too interested.
GG: Initially when I broached the subject with him he just pooh-poohed it. He gave me like a Jimmy Stewart, Aw shucks, who would want to read that? I pressed him a little but because I thought it was an important project and he should have all of his work available on the bookshelf in a coherent way instead of the sloppy editions, which have been published over the years. Finally he shrugged and gave his blessing. But my impression was that he wasnt going to be actively participating in it.
DRE: Is it weird doing it post mortem even though that happens all the time?
GG: Especially with us. Weve done a lot of books like that, Popeye, Little Orphan Annie and Krazy Kat. It would have been a hell of a lot more fulfilling if we had done it when he was alive so he could have seen it. Its unfortunate we werent able to. All these kinds of projects seem to follow their own time.
DRE: In one of his issues of Palookaville, Seth mentioned that he wished someone would reprint Peanuts comprehensively. What made you go to him?
GG: He and Chris Ware were the biggest Peanuts fans I knew among cartoonists. Chris was already designing Krazy Kat for us so I thought it would make sense if Seth did the Peanuts book. His design is always subdued and low-key. I think we talked either jokingly or not that if we ever got the rights to do Peanuts he should do it.
DRE: [Editor/publisher of Drawn & Quarterly] Chris Oliveros allows you to associate with Seth?
GG: [laughs] I dont think its a matter of that. Chris Ware and Seth are free agents so they can associate with anyone they want. Thats never a problem.
DRE: What are the expectations for the first Peanuts book?
GG: If the pre-sales of volume one are any indication about 90 percent of the sales will be in the bookstores and the rest in the comic book market. Which gives you the level of cluelessness among comic book retailers. You would think every comic book store would at least buy a few copies. The first volume has sold really well and we expect that number to go down over the course of the series. But given Peanuts popularity we have no idea how much it will go down whether its ten or 40 percent. Then you get into different eras of Peanuts like the 60s were popular and Snoopy came into his own with The Red Baron. Ultimately its not very important, we are going to do the 25 volumes regardless of whether they sell like gangbusters or if they go down.
DRE: Were people surprised you wanted to do this?
GG: I dont think so. I guess we have a certain image. We publish Robert Crumb and Hernandez brothers so we have an image as an alternative publisher. But over the years weve published Popeye, Prince Valiant and Pogo so what weve really always wanted to do is publish good cartooning in whatever context. The people I know werent surprised at all because they know me. It doesnt have to have some indie edge; its wherever you find it.
DRE: What other strips do you think would be good for this comprehensive reprinting?
GG: I havent thought about that. We published 11 small volumes of Pogo and I would like to reprint the entire Pogo in a similar format to Peanuts. We only published 11 volumes because the rights were a real labyrinth among the family members. I think thats been straightened so Ill be talking to them about it. Id love to publish Cliff Sterretts Polly and Her Pals, which is one of my favorites. The color pages in that are gorgeous and are every bit as good as Windsor McKays Little Nemo in Slumberland or George Herrimans work. Kitchen Sink actually published one or two volumes of that in the late 80s and then quit because they didnt sell well. But with bookstore distribution I think we could sell enough to make a go of it. I would like to reprint Percy Crosby's Skippy. That ran from 1925-1945 and sometime during that period it was one of the most popular strips in the world. Skippy Peanut Butter stole the name from them. The cartoonist Percy Crosby is fascinating because he was a painter and a brilliant writer. Drawn & Quarterly is publishing Gasoline Alley this year.
DRE: What about modern strips?
GG: I skim the new ones. They are almost all pretty god awful except for Bill Griffiths Zippy and Patrick McDonnells Mutts. Mutts is pretty fabulous and you're not even sure why because theyre not laugh out loud funny.
DRE: I like Rose is Rose and Shermans Lagoon.
How come Schulzs Mad Peanuts parody is not going to be included?
GG: The only thing in the books is going to be newspaper strips. Schulz did a variety of other things that we were thinking of doing a separate volume of miscellaneous stuff he did.
DRE: Youll see in 13 years.
GG: Right, my son will do that for me. We wanted to keep the complete Peanuts pretty pure as just the strips.
DRE: I read about how hard it was to find some of the actual strips.
GG: We definitely had to do a lot of detective work. We found out all the newspapers Peanuts originally appeared in. There were only seven of them that they appeared in right from the beginning and one of them was The Seattle Times. That was great because we could go right over to the public library in Seattle and get the strips. We went over there and we pulled the microfilm of the days we needed and we gave them to a local place that specialized in getting the best possible reproduction from microfilm. We said to just pull the Peanuts strips. So the guy called me back and said he couldnt find any Peanuts. We knew it had to be there. He calls me back and says he cant find them. So we were going crazy and we found out that the Seattle Times had run it from the beginning but they dropped two months later. The ones we wanted were from two months to two years so we had to start over. It was really laborious. We had to find collectors and people like that. For the first book we were missing a couple hundred and future volumes were missing fewer and fewer. It was a real hassle.
DRE: Is Charlie brown like a Jesus Christ type figure?
GG: [laughs] I never made that metaphorical connection. I dont know. Mel Gibson might be the guy to ask.
DRE: What happened with Milo George?
GG: I discharged him for complicated reasons. The bottom line was that working with Milo was just too difficult to continue.
DRE: Hes worked there for a long time.
GG: I know. It was three years that felt like 30. We had our ups and downs but there was no one thing. It was just an accumulation of difficulties.
DRE: Now you have Dirk Deppey who has had some difficulties with online comic book outlets.
GG: Well were unlikely to find a Comic Journal editor that everyone likes which I can live with. But the bottom line is that I have to like him.
DRE: What do you like about Dirk?
GG: I think he can work with people. We can actually sit down and discuss things. Since I dont have time to edit the magazine what I am looking for is someone who can continue the vision of the magazine. In a situation like this you have to find some compromise between what I want and what the managing editor wants. With Dirk I think we can work together comfortably.
DRE: The Peanuts book may diversify Fantagraphics fanbase, is that what you are looking for in an editor?
GG: Not necessarily. We are going to revamp the magazine and change the format. Were going to add more color to it. I thought there was too little art in the magazine. When we would run a review we would only show a few panels and we have to represent the art more than we do. In terms of editorial focus we will probably diversify the coverage a bit. I think one of the best things Milo did was start the column on manga so we will be covering a wider range of material. There are an awful lot of books that dont get covered in the magazine and I dont understand why. Blankets has been out for almost a year and we never reviewed it. If you ask me why, my answer is I dont know.
DRE: I just happened to speak to Dennis Eichhorn recently for Newsarama. He said you two had problems over there when he wanted to use McDonalds in one of his books.
GG: I dont remember specifically. But he wrote a story about one of his crazy escapades with one of the heirs of McDonalds or something. The story was about this heiress of McDonalds fucking goats or something. It was just crazy and if it werent true we could clearly get our ass sued. There were some questions as to what extent he was exaggerating. But for the most part we never had a problem. We published like 20 issues of Real Stuff.
DRE: I was surprised to find out that Fantagraphics was publishing someone like Johnny Ryan. Thats not the kind of stuff you usually put out. What made you want to put out his stuff?
GG: Well first of all I dont think thats true. His stuff has relation to Peter Bagges work with the satire and early Clowes work. It was [Fantagraphics Director of Promotions] Eric Reynolds who suggested we look at it. At first I wasnt that enthusiastic about it. I love the drawings so I thought we would give it a shot. The last issue I thought was a masterpiece and the best thing he had ever done. The humor just all coalesced there.
DRE: Why werent you enthusiastic about it?
GG: Because it seemed kind of obvious vulgar humor that the underground lived through. I thought we should be looking for stuff beyond it. You can see with the last issue that he transcended that.
DRE: How is Fantagraphics doing financially after you had that problem a while ago?
GG: Were doing ok. As always were muddling through. The first volume of Peanuts will do well; weve printed 80,000 copies so that will turn us around. Weve always been just short of struggling. We never had surplus money and then you have these ebbs and flows. I think well be doing fine over the next few years.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
For me personally, Peanuts has always been a mainstay in my life. Before I ever picked up my first comic book I was devouring the small Peanuts paperbacks, literally and figuratively [I used to eat paper]. Now to finally be able to see them all in perfect condition is wonderful.
I got a chance to talk with Groth about the Peanuts books, the firing of Milo George and Johnny Ryan.
Buy Peanuts directly from Fantagraphics
Daniel Robert Epstein: How tough was it to get the rights to do the Peanuts books?
Gary Groth: Once I got [Charles Schulz's widow] Jeannie Schulz onboard it wasnt tough. Prior to that when I spoke to Sparky [Charles Schulz's nickname] about it in 1997 I was going through the United Media channels just like any licensor, which was incredibly intimidating. They sent me a one-pound pile of paper to fill out. That was so intimidating I set it aside for a while. Then he died unexpectedly, I contacted Jeannie and she cut through the red tape because she wanted it to happen. After that it was pretty smooth sailing.
DRE: I read that he might not have been too interested.
GG: Initially when I broached the subject with him he just pooh-poohed it. He gave me like a Jimmy Stewart, Aw shucks, who would want to read that? I pressed him a little but because I thought it was an important project and he should have all of his work available on the bookshelf in a coherent way instead of the sloppy editions, which have been published over the years. Finally he shrugged and gave his blessing. But my impression was that he wasnt going to be actively participating in it.
DRE: Is it weird doing it post mortem even though that happens all the time?
GG: Especially with us. Weve done a lot of books like that, Popeye, Little Orphan Annie and Krazy Kat. It would have been a hell of a lot more fulfilling if we had done it when he was alive so he could have seen it. Its unfortunate we werent able to. All these kinds of projects seem to follow their own time.
DRE: In one of his issues of Palookaville, Seth mentioned that he wished someone would reprint Peanuts comprehensively. What made you go to him?
GG: He and Chris Ware were the biggest Peanuts fans I knew among cartoonists. Chris was already designing Krazy Kat for us so I thought it would make sense if Seth did the Peanuts book. His design is always subdued and low-key. I think we talked either jokingly or not that if we ever got the rights to do Peanuts he should do it.
DRE: [Editor/publisher of Drawn & Quarterly] Chris Oliveros allows you to associate with Seth?
GG: [laughs] I dont think its a matter of that. Chris Ware and Seth are free agents so they can associate with anyone they want. Thats never a problem.
DRE: What are the expectations for the first Peanuts book?
GG: If the pre-sales of volume one are any indication about 90 percent of the sales will be in the bookstores and the rest in the comic book market. Which gives you the level of cluelessness among comic book retailers. You would think every comic book store would at least buy a few copies. The first volume has sold really well and we expect that number to go down over the course of the series. But given Peanuts popularity we have no idea how much it will go down whether its ten or 40 percent. Then you get into different eras of Peanuts like the 60s were popular and Snoopy came into his own with The Red Baron. Ultimately its not very important, we are going to do the 25 volumes regardless of whether they sell like gangbusters or if they go down.
DRE: Were people surprised you wanted to do this?
GG: I dont think so. I guess we have a certain image. We publish Robert Crumb and Hernandez brothers so we have an image as an alternative publisher. But over the years weve published Popeye, Prince Valiant and Pogo so what weve really always wanted to do is publish good cartooning in whatever context. The people I know werent surprised at all because they know me. It doesnt have to have some indie edge; its wherever you find it.
DRE: What other strips do you think would be good for this comprehensive reprinting?
GG: I havent thought about that. We published 11 small volumes of Pogo and I would like to reprint the entire Pogo in a similar format to Peanuts. We only published 11 volumes because the rights were a real labyrinth among the family members. I think thats been straightened so Ill be talking to them about it. Id love to publish Cliff Sterretts Polly and Her Pals, which is one of my favorites. The color pages in that are gorgeous and are every bit as good as Windsor McKays Little Nemo in Slumberland or George Herrimans work. Kitchen Sink actually published one or two volumes of that in the late 80s and then quit because they didnt sell well. But with bookstore distribution I think we could sell enough to make a go of it. I would like to reprint Percy Crosby's Skippy. That ran from 1925-1945 and sometime during that period it was one of the most popular strips in the world. Skippy Peanut Butter stole the name from them. The cartoonist Percy Crosby is fascinating because he was a painter and a brilliant writer. Drawn & Quarterly is publishing Gasoline Alley this year.
DRE: What about modern strips?
GG: I skim the new ones. They are almost all pretty god awful except for Bill Griffiths Zippy and Patrick McDonnells Mutts. Mutts is pretty fabulous and you're not even sure why because theyre not laugh out loud funny.
DRE: I like Rose is Rose and Shermans Lagoon.
How come Schulzs Mad Peanuts parody is not going to be included?
GG: The only thing in the books is going to be newspaper strips. Schulz did a variety of other things that we were thinking of doing a separate volume of miscellaneous stuff he did.
DRE: Youll see in 13 years.
GG: Right, my son will do that for me. We wanted to keep the complete Peanuts pretty pure as just the strips.
DRE: I read about how hard it was to find some of the actual strips.
GG: We definitely had to do a lot of detective work. We found out all the newspapers Peanuts originally appeared in. There were only seven of them that they appeared in right from the beginning and one of them was The Seattle Times. That was great because we could go right over to the public library in Seattle and get the strips. We went over there and we pulled the microfilm of the days we needed and we gave them to a local place that specialized in getting the best possible reproduction from microfilm. We said to just pull the Peanuts strips. So the guy called me back and said he couldnt find any Peanuts. We knew it had to be there. He calls me back and says he cant find them. So we were going crazy and we found out that the Seattle Times had run it from the beginning but they dropped two months later. The ones we wanted were from two months to two years so we had to start over. It was really laborious. We had to find collectors and people like that. For the first book we were missing a couple hundred and future volumes were missing fewer and fewer. It was a real hassle.
DRE: Is Charlie brown like a Jesus Christ type figure?
GG: [laughs] I never made that metaphorical connection. I dont know. Mel Gibson might be the guy to ask.
DRE: What happened with Milo George?
GG: I discharged him for complicated reasons. The bottom line was that working with Milo was just too difficult to continue.
DRE: Hes worked there for a long time.
GG: I know. It was three years that felt like 30. We had our ups and downs but there was no one thing. It was just an accumulation of difficulties.
DRE: Now you have Dirk Deppey who has had some difficulties with online comic book outlets.
GG: Well were unlikely to find a Comic Journal editor that everyone likes which I can live with. But the bottom line is that I have to like him.
DRE: What do you like about Dirk?
GG: I think he can work with people. We can actually sit down and discuss things. Since I dont have time to edit the magazine what I am looking for is someone who can continue the vision of the magazine. In a situation like this you have to find some compromise between what I want and what the managing editor wants. With Dirk I think we can work together comfortably.
DRE: The Peanuts book may diversify Fantagraphics fanbase, is that what you are looking for in an editor?
GG: Not necessarily. We are going to revamp the magazine and change the format. Were going to add more color to it. I thought there was too little art in the magazine. When we would run a review we would only show a few panels and we have to represent the art more than we do. In terms of editorial focus we will probably diversify the coverage a bit. I think one of the best things Milo did was start the column on manga so we will be covering a wider range of material. There are an awful lot of books that dont get covered in the magazine and I dont understand why. Blankets has been out for almost a year and we never reviewed it. If you ask me why, my answer is I dont know.
DRE: I just happened to speak to Dennis Eichhorn recently for Newsarama. He said you two had problems over there when he wanted to use McDonalds in one of his books.
GG: I dont remember specifically. But he wrote a story about one of his crazy escapades with one of the heirs of McDonalds or something. The story was about this heiress of McDonalds fucking goats or something. It was just crazy and if it werent true we could clearly get our ass sued. There were some questions as to what extent he was exaggerating. But for the most part we never had a problem. We published like 20 issues of Real Stuff.
DRE: I was surprised to find out that Fantagraphics was publishing someone like Johnny Ryan. Thats not the kind of stuff you usually put out. What made you want to put out his stuff?
GG: Well first of all I dont think thats true. His stuff has relation to Peter Bagges work with the satire and early Clowes work. It was [Fantagraphics Director of Promotions] Eric Reynolds who suggested we look at it. At first I wasnt that enthusiastic about it. I love the drawings so I thought we would give it a shot. The last issue I thought was a masterpiece and the best thing he had ever done. The humor just all coalesced there.
DRE: Why werent you enthusiastic about it?
GG: Because it seemed kind of obvious vulgar humor that the underground lived through. I thought we should be looking for stuff beyond it. You can see with the last issue that he transcended that.
DRE: How is Fantagraphics doing financially after you had that problem a while ago?
GG: Were doing ok. As always were muddling through. The first volume of Peanuts will do well; weve printed 80,000 copies so that will turn us around. Weve always been just short of struggling. We never had surplus money and then you have these ebbs and flows. I think well be doing fine over the next few years.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 5 of 5 COMMENTS
but yeah, i didnt like the peanuts strip much in the last 5-10 years it was around, but when i was a kid i loved it to death. ill definitely pick up a couple of the books in this series.