Albert Brooks gets treated like a living comedy legend by nearly everyone in the world, deservedly so, except by studio executives looking at the bottom line. Brooks is releasing his seventh feature as director, Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World, through Warner Independent Pictures after Sony dropped it because of their fear.
Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World is the hilarious story of what happens when the US Government sends comedian Albert Brooks to India and Pakistan to find out what makes the over 300 million Muslims in that region laugh. Brooks, accompanied by two state department handlers and his trusted assistant, goes on a journey that takes him from a concert stage in New Delhi, to the Taj Mahal, to a secret location in the mountains of Pakistan.
Check out the official site for Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World
Daniel Robert Epstein: I saw you on David Letterman the other night; did you and he discuss the bit you did?
Albert Brooks: I didn't tell them what the song that I was going to sing was because I didn't want him to know.
DRE: You kept going on about how you thought he was ending the show. What was it like not being his last guest?
AB: [laughs] Well, you never know with David Letterman. You have to watch every night.
DRE: This film was originally going to be distributed by Sony, what happened with that?
AB: They wasted five months of our lives actually. The film was financed by Steve Bing and he had a deal with Sony. Sony was excited about it and they picked TriStar as the division that they thought could best handle it. Then after the movie was finished I went over there and showed them the scene in the beginning with Fred Thompson and the other government people. Then I told them the rest of the story and the title. Everyone felt excited after that meeting. I didn't feel as excited as the others because when I told them the title one of the big shots in the meeting made a joke that was weird to me like, Oh good title. I guess we're going to have to put in extra phone lines to take these calls. When studios say anything like that there's never anything good about it. They never make jokes that turn out good. If a studio sees a rough cut and says, Yeah, that scene was a little long. That scene is never going to get into the movie. That's the way that they let you know something. So I said in the parking lot to Steve, I'm worried about that comment and he told me Don't worry. This is great. So they proceeded and they made posters. They made a trailer. They said that we were going to go to the Toronto Film Festival and they claimed the release date of October 7th. Then after that Newsweek story came out about the Koran being abused in Guantanamo Bay I got a call on Monday morning from Steve and he said, Bad news they don't want that title. I said Ok. Didn't I say this five months ago? and he told me I was right. He said they want to call it Looking for Comedy if thats ok with me. I told him No, that's not okay with me. There's nothing to that. We can't do it.
I had a conversation with the head of the movie company and he told me that he just felt that times had changed and I said, But what do you mean? Times changed after 9/11. It's not any different from this. Abu Ghraib was worse than this and that was a year ago. It's always changing and that's why we're making the movie. He just said that he was concerned about it and then I saw one of the trailers that they made and it was like Bill and Ted Go to India. It explained nothing about the movie. A comedian is on his way to be funny. On his way where? Where are we going? My feeling is and I don't have any proof of this, but as much as I understand how very big companies work there are many people in a company that big that aren't really involved in the day to day movie business. They have Sony Corporation which is in a tremendous amount of businesses and the movies that they make are meaningless to some people until one afternoon when they have nothing to do and they're like, Lets see what's coming up. What is this? Sarah, what's that word? Muslim. Are you sure? Get Charlie on the phone. I just think that someone said, What? Are you crazy? Get rid of that. Especially since I'm not someone who's guaranteeing an audience. I'm not Peter Jackson. They're not going to have a long discussion of like, "Well, are we going to have to take some flack, but make half a billion dollars? We'll take the half billion. I just think that I couldn't win that argument. So I was upset because October was now gone. Toronto was gone, but on the positive side I never would've gone to the Dubai International Film Festival if it hadnt happened. That turned out to be like the coolest thing. It's one of those experiences where you're certain where one thing is going to happen, but something else happens entirely. I think I'll remember that long after anything else about this whole movie because it was so wild and unusual.
DRE: But you had to know that things like this would happen.
AB: I did know but we could've had that meeting back in February. What normally happens is that you go back to your house and there's a call that says, Look, they love you. This isn't going to work out. No one had the guts to say that then. That would have left a whole summer for Warner Independent to prepare instead of it all happening in July. They're a small studio and they had Good Night and Good Luck and Paradise Now. They don't have a lot of employees.
DRE: How did you decide to do this film?
AB: After September 11th I sat in my house for a year and was scared. All that was happening was that we were told the next one was coming tomorrow or next weekend or maybe Monday. I was in this little movie called My First Mister that opened in Rockefeller Center right near where the Anthrax scare was. I was like Oh, that's going to be great. That's what you want. Tell them that there's anthrax in the theater. That entire year was a panic for everyone. The second year the attacks were going to come on the holidays. Be careful on July 4th. I wouldn't go to Time Square on New Year's Eve. The third year we werent sure if its going to come. But they kept telling that this is never going to go away. That this isnt like other wars because other wars have conclusions. I thought that this was insane. Are we going to hide until we're killed? So you want to get back to a normalcy even if there is some impending doom. In my mind to be able to deal with it is in a motion picture comedy. That's what normalcy is and there have been no comedies on this. It's interesting that if you look at all the pictures that have risen to the top at the end of 2005 virtually all of them are set in the past. It's like that's how people are dealing with things. Munich, Brokeback Mountain, Good Night and Good Luck, Memoirs of a Geisha and Squid and the Whale are all movies set in the past. So one way to deal with it is to not even talk about a world after 9/11. Then the comedies that have been made that deal in the supposed present are generally these teenage sex comedies that never talk about the world. I just wanted to be able to stand up and say, I'm acknowledging the new world here and maybe we can get a few laughs for 98 minutes and then we'll go on. By the way if ten years from now, which according to them we're still going to be in this, if there are 100 comedies it'll be a better place.
DRE: Will audiences pick up on everything youre talking about?
AB: I never ask myself those questions. If I did I wouldn't be talking to you today because I would've retired when I was 30. My whole life, you have to understand, is dealing with people. Back in the 1960s I was in the cast of Dean Martin Presents the Golddiggers and Greg Garrison was the producer. He allowed me to do the kind of comedy that I did, but he felt that it was necessary to give me a lecture like a child before it all started. He took me into his office and said, I just want to tell you something. You're going to have a very tough career because you're up here and the audience is down here and if I were you I would adjust for that. He looked at me and my answer was, I don't know what you're talking about. Then he said, I just wanted to check. Go do what you do. He was trying to see if I would rework my act. That's all people do, underestimate the audience. I can't think like that.
DRE: How was it working with former Senator Fred Dalton Thompson?
AB: We had a screening in Washington DC this past Sunday at the Center for American Progress and he and John Kerry were there. Fred saw the movie for the first time and was pleased. Originally the role was something he was hesitant to do because he'd never acted using his own name and he worried about it. Back when I did Defending Your Life it came down to Fred and Rip Torn for that role. So I knew Fred and he liked me, but he was worried. But he said, I'll trust you and then said You're not going to pull a Michael Moore here are you? Then coincidentally after the movie was already finished I was pleased that Fred was the guy appointed to lead John Roberts through the Senate because it raised his political profile. All of a sudden he was back on Fox News talking about John Roberts. It was good.
DRE: Early last year I got to speak to Woody Allen and I asked him if he would ever do standup again. He said that he would love to but it is too hard and it is easier for him to make a movie a year. You make less movies than he does, would you ever do standup again?
AB: I admire that he can make so many movies but first let me address why it's easier for him to make films. Woody Allen is the only person who makes movies then doesnt have to do the publicity. He doesn't do any of this stuff that all of us have to do to sell. So he finishes, goes back to his house and starts to write again. Its a great luxury to never get into the business part of making movies. I sort of enjoy this part more than he does especially with this movie because the discussions are interesting. But Woody Allen never previews. He never does anything. He just makes one movie after another and that's an amazing luxury. I've thought about doing standup. I don't know how serious I am about it. I see some of the new places in Las Vegas where the rooms are so beautiful and God knows that they pay well. It would have to be a different mindset.
DRE: But you did get to recreate some of your old act in this film.
AB: Oh God no. My act is better than that. By the way, I wrote that improv bit for the movie. I never really did that onstage. Danny and Dave I used to do all the time. I wouldnt know what to do if I really had to do standup in India. Now I think that I've scared myself of ever doing it.
DRE: How did the audience actually respond to the act?
AB: That was filmed over two days because you have to shoot from 60 different angles. In the beginning of the first day I welcomed them as the director and their inclination was to laugh at everything. Then you have to tell them not to laugh so you go through a period where once you tell people not to laugh two people do and everyone laughs at them. But fortunately add in the heat and five hours without a break and no one is laughing anymore. As a matter of fact you get a few people going, When do we get to eat? I was like, You can't say either. Don't yell at me. Just be quiet.
DRE: Were you always going to visit those two countries?
AB: India and Pakistan were always part of the plot because I had a number of issues to deal with. First you need some jeopardy when they give you this assignment because Americans don't readily go to Pakistan. As it's explained in the movie, in India Hindus are the majority in the population, but what makes India interesting is that their minority population of 150 million Muslims makes it the second largest Muslim population in the world. But I couldn't go to any of the countries in the Middle East that would provide jeopardy for the movie. There is no Saudi Arabian Film Commission that's welcoming people. When the President of Iran says that they want to wipe Israel off the map on Wednesday, Thursday he's not saying, However, let the Jew filmmaker come in and we'll give him free access. I can't get into Syria. Where I would be able to film is Morocco where Syriana filmed but it is not interesting for this movie. You go there and it is too touristy. Even Egypt is full of people from Florida looking at the pyramids. Many of the countries in the Middle East aren't inviting a person like me in and I don't think there are any American films that are getting in there. There are news crews that can shoot in Iraq, but to get a movie made you need the kind of cooperation that the government can't even get when they talk to them. I don't know how film unions are then going to speak to each other.
DRE: Were your jokes funny in India?
AB: What's funny is that as the crew warmed up to me I found that the butt of the Hindus jokes are the Sikhs. There was one joke that I didn't understand Two Sikhs played a chess game, yes? The simply did not play [laughs]. Then we had a Sikh driver who was telling me Muslim jokes. So it seems to me that everywhere on the planet someone is talking about someone else. As I say in the movie Polish jokes work everywhere.
DRE: How about Palestinian jokes?
AB: I heard one the other day. These two Jewish men travel the subway everyday for years and years and read the Jewish Press every morning. Then one morning one of them is reading an Arabic newspaper and the other one says, What's a matter with you? Why are you reading that paper? Have you lost your mind? He said, No. To tell you the truth all I read in the Jewish Press is that Israel has been blown up and that the Jews aren't allowed to enter and that life is terrible. In this paper it says we own all the banks, we own the media. Life is much better in this paper.
DRE: How did you deal with the Indian government?
AB: Initially when I went there I told them every beat of the movie and then I sent a 45 page description of every scene. In my heart I wasn't pulling a fast one so I wasn't worried. I was really worried in my first meeting with the Minister of Culture because as I was saying to Letterman the guy told me that they wouldn't let Raiders of the Lost Ark shoot there because there was a scene where they ate monkey brains. I actually told the Minister very respectfully, In the future you should take our money and let us do it because with CGI they'll make any place look like India and they'll do all the things that you don't want anyway. So at least get our money.
DRE: Actually it is Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where they ate the monkey brains.
AB: So the Minister of Culture was wrong.
DRE: At the In-Laws junket you said something which I still quote today, that everything they used to put in the trash they now put on DVD. That brought to mind the brand new Modern Romance DVD.
AB: There's nothing on there. But let me tell you something about that. At least they told me that they made a silly cover and I was like, Why did you do that? Then before they pressed them they gave me an initial DVD. I pressed Trailer and it was Spanglish. They said that they took it off. I had to watch it because I don't trust anyone when it comes to that
DRE: How was it seeing the film again?
AB: I was hairier then.
DRE: But it seems like a Looking for Comedy DVD would have fantastic stuff on it.
AB: I have about four deleted scenes and if you want to know the honest to God truth we had great behind the scenes DV cameras everyday on the set in India. The last conversation that I had with the studio was them saying We have to see how much that would cost to edit so I'm rebuffed at every angle. One person at the DVD division said, Oh making of's don't really sell DVDs. I got angry and said, Maybe when you're shooting in Sherman Oaks, but we're in India. That was the whole point of going there. You got to see where they picked up the trash at the Taj Mahal. It's interesting to see these places.
DRE: What are you doing next?
AB: I'm writing a movie roughly about just a different aspect of aging. That's all I'm going to say.
DRE: Are you going to star again?
AB: I don't know. I'll probably be too old.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World is the hilarious story of what happens when the US Government sends comedian Albert Brooks to India and Pakistan to find out what makes the over 300 million Muslims in that region laugh. Brooks, accompanied by two state department handlers and his trusted assistant, goes on a journey that takes him from a concert stage in New Delhi, to the Taj Mahal, to a secret location in the mountains of Pakistan.
Check out the official site for Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World
Daniel Robert Epstein: I saw you on David Letterman the other night; did you and he discuss the bit you did?
Albert Brooks: I didn't tell them what the song that I was going to sing was because I didn't want him to know.
DRE: You kept going on about how you thought he was ending the show. What was it like not being his last guest?
AB: [laughs] Well, you never know with David Letterman. You have to watch every night.
DRE: This film was originally going to be distributed by Sony, what happened with that?
AB: They wasted five months of our lives actually. The film was financed by Steve Bing and he had a deal with Sony. Sony was excited about it and they picked TriStar as the division that they thought could best handle it. Then after the movie was finished I went over there and showed them the scene in the beginning with Fred Thompson and the other government people. Then I told them the rest of the story and the title. Everyone felt excited after that meeting. I didn't feel as excited as the others because when I told them the title one of the big shots in the meeting made a joke that was weird to me like, Oh good title. I guess we're going to have to put in extra phone lines to take these calls. When studios say anything like that there's never anything good about it. They never make jokes that turn out good. If a studio sees a rough cut and says, Yeah, that scene was a little long. That scene is never going to get into the movie. That's the way that they let you know something. So I said in the parking lot to Steve, I'm worried about that comment and he told me Don't worry. This is great. So they proceeded and they made posters. They made a trailer. They said that we were going to go to the Toronto Film Festival and they claimed the release date of October 7th. Then after that Newsweek story came out about the Koran being abused in Guantanamo Bay I got a call on Monday morning from Steve and he said, Bad news they don't want that title. I said Ok. Didn't I say this five months ago? and he told me I was right. He said they want to call it Looking for Comedy if thats ok with me. I told him No, that's not okay with me. There's nothing to that. We can't do it.
I had a conversation with the head of the movie company and he told me that he just felt that times had changed and I said, But what do you mean? Times changed after 9/11. It's not any different from this. Abu Ghraib was worse than this and that was a year ago. It's always changing and that's why we're making the movie. He just said that he was concerned about it and then I saw one of the trailers that they made and it was like Bill and Ted Go to India. It explained nothing about the movie. A comedian is on his way to be funny. On his way where? Where are we going? My feeling is and I don't have any proof of this, but as much as I understand how very big companies work there are many people in a company that big that aren't really involved in the day to day movie business. They have Sony Corporation which is in a tremendous amount of businesses and the movies that they make are meaningless to some people until one afternoon when they have nothing to do and they're like, Lets see what's coming up. What is this? Sarah, what's that word? Muslim. Are you sure? Get Charlie on the phone. I just think that someone said, What? Are you crazy? Get rid of that. Especially since I'm not someone who's guaranteeing an audience. I'm not Peter Jackson. They're not going to have a long discussion of like, "Well, are we going to have to take some flack, but make half a billion dollars? We'll take the half billion. I just think that I couldn't win that argument. So I was upset because October was now gone. Toronto was gone, but on the positive side I never would've gone to the Dubai International Film Festival if it hadnt happened. That turned out to be like the coolest thing. It's one of those experiences where you're certain where one thing is going to happen, but something else happens entirely. I think I'll remember that long after anything else about this whole movie because it was so wild and unusual.
DRE: But you had to know that things like this would happen.
AB: I did know but we could've had that meeting back in February. What normally happens is that you go back to your house and there's a call that says, Look, they love you. This isn't going to work out. No one had the guts to say that then. That would have left a whole summer for Warner Independent to prepare instead of it all happening in July. They're a small studio and they had Good Night and Good Luck and Paradise Now. They don't have a lot of employees.
DRE: How did you decide to do this film?
AB: After September 11th I sat in my house for a year and was scared. All that was happening was that we were told the next one was coming tomorrow or next weekend or maybe Monday. I was in this little movie called My First Mister that opened in Rockefeller Center right near where the Anthrax scare was. I was like Oh, that's going to be great. That's what you want. Tell them that there's anthrax in the theater. That entire year was a panic for everyone. The second year the attacks were going to come on the holidays. Be careful on July 4th. I wouldn't go to Time Square on New Year's Eve. The third year we werent sure if its going to come. But they kept telling that this is never going to go away. That this isnt like other wars because other wars have conclusions. I thought that this was insane. Are we going to hide until we're killed? So you want to get back to a normalcy even if there is some impending doom. In my mind to be able to deal with it is in a motion picture comedy. That's what normalcy is and there have been no comedies on this. It's interesting that if you look at all the pictures that have risen to the top at the end of 2005 virtually all of them are set in the past. It's like that's how people are dealing with things. Munich, Brokeback Mountain, Good Night and Good Luck, Memoirs of a Geisha and Squid and the Whale are all movies set in the past. So one way to deal with it is to not even talk about a world after 9/11. Then the comedies that have been made that deal in the supposed present are generally these teenage sex comedies that never talk about the world. I just wanted to be able to stand up and say, I'm acknowledging the new world here and maybe we can get a few laughs for 98 minutes and then we'll go on. By the way if ten years from now, which according to them we're still going to be in this, if there are 100 comedies it'll be a better place.
DRE: Will audiences pick up on everything youre talking about?
AB: I never ask myself those questions. If I did I wouldn't be talking to you today because I would've retired when I was 30. My whole life, you have to understand, is dealing with people. Back in the 1960s I was in the cast of Dean Martin Presents the Golddiggers and Greg Garrison was the producer. He allowed me to do the kind of comedy that I did, but he felt that it was necessary to give me a lecture like a child before it all started. He took me into his office and said, I just want to tell you something. You're going to have a very tough career because you're up here and the audience is down here and if I were you I would adjust for that. He looked at me and my answer was, I don't know what you're talking about. Then he said, I just wanted to check. Go do what you do. He was trying to see if I would rework my act. That's all people do, underestimate the audience. I can't think like that.
DRE: How was it working with former Senator Fred Dalton Thompson?
AB: We had a screening in Washington DC this past Sunday at the Center for American Progress and he and John Kerry were there. Fred saw the movie for the first time and was pleased. Originally the role was something he was hesitant to do because he'd never acted using his own name and he worried about it. Back when I did Defending Your Life it came down to Fred and Rip Torn for that role. So I knew Fred and he liked me, but he was worried. But he said, I'll trust you and then said You're not going to pull a Michael Moore here are you? Then coincidentally after the movie was already finished I was pleased that Fred was the guy appointed to lead John Roberts through the Senate because it raised his political profile. All of a sudden he was back on Fox News talking about John Roberts. It was good.
DRE: Early last year I got to speak to Woody Allen and I asked him if he would ever do standup again. He said that he would love to but it is too hard and it is easier for him to make a movie a year. You make less movies than he does, would you ever do standup again?
AB: I admire that he can make so many movies but first let me address why it's easier for him to make films. Woody Allen is the only person who makes movies then doesnt have to do the publicity. He doesn't do any of this stuff that all of us have to do to sell. So he finishes, goes back to his house and starts to write again. Its a great luxury to never get into the business part of making movies. I sort of enjoy this part more than he does especially with this movie because the discussions are interesting. But Woody Allen never previews. He never does anything. He just makes one movie after another and that's an amazing luxury. I've thought about doing standup. I don't know how serious I am about it. I see some of the new places in Las Vegas where the rooms are so beautiful and God knows that they pay well. It would have to be a different mindset.
DRE: But you did get to recreate some of your old act in this film.
AB: Oh God no. My act is better than that. By the way, I wrote that improv bit for the movie. I never really did that onstage. Danny and Dave I used to do all the time. I wouldnt know what to do if I really had to do standup in India. Now I think that I've scared myself of ever doing it.
DRE: How did the audience actually respond to the act?
AB: That was filmed over two days because you have to shoot from 60 different angles. In the beginning of the first day I welcomed them as the director and their inclination was to laugh at everything. Then you have to tell them not to laugh so you go through a period where once you tell people not to laugh two people do and everyone laughs at them. But fortunately add in the heat and five hours without a break and no one is laughing anymore. As a matter of fact you get a few people going, When do we get to eat? I was like, You can't say either. Don't yell at me. Just be quiet.
DRE: Were you always going to visit those two countries?
AB: India and Pakistan were always part of the plot because I had a number of issues to deal with. First you need some jeopardy when they give you this assignment because Americans don't readily go to Pakistan. As it's explained in the movie, in India Hindus are the majority in the population, but what makes India interesting is that their minority population of 150 million Muslims makes it the second largest Muslim population in the world. But I couldn't go to any of the countries in the Middle East that would provide jeopardy for the movie. There is no Saudi Arabian Film Commission that's welcoming people. When the President of Iran says that they want to wipe Israel off the map on Wednesday, Thursday he's not saying, However, let the Jew filmmaker come in and we'll give him free access. I can't get into Syria. Where I would be able to film is Morocco where Syriana filmed but it is not interesting for this movie. You go there and it is too touristy. Even Egypt is full of people from Florida looking at the pyramids. Many of the countries in the Middle East aren't inviting a person like me in and I don't think there are any American films that are getting in there. There are news crews that can shoot in Iraq, but to get a movie made you need the kind of cooperation that the government can't even get when they talk to them. I don't know how film unions are then going to speak to each other.
DRE: Were your jokes funny in India?
AB: What's funny is that as the crew warmed up to me I found that the butt of the Hindus jokes are the Sikhs. There was one joke that I didn't understand Two Sikhs played a chess game, yes? The simply did not play [laughs]. Then we had a Sikh driver who was telling me Muslim jokes. So it seems to me that everywhere on the planet someone is talking about someone else. As I say in the movie Polish jokes work everywhere.
DRE: How about Palestinian jokes?
AB: I heard one the other day. These two Jewish men travel the subway everyday for years and years and read the Jewish Press every morning. Then one morning one of them is reading an Arabic newspaper and the other one says, What's a matter with you? Why are you reading that paper? Have you lost your mind? He said, No. To tell you the truth all I read in the Jewish Press is that Israel has been blown up and that the Jews aren't allowed to enter and that life is terrible. In this paper it says we own all the banks, we own the media. Life is much better in this paper.
DRE: How did you deal with the Indian government?
AB: Initially when I went there I told them every beat of the movie and then I sent a 45 page description of every scene. In my heart I wasn't pulling a fast one so I wasn't worried. I was really worried in my first meeting with the Minister of Culture because as I was saying to Letterman the guy told me that they wouldn't let Raiders of the Lost Ark shoot there because there was a scene where they ate monkey brains. I actually told the Minister very respectfully, In the future you should take our money and let us do it because with CGI they'll make any place look like India and they'll do all the things that you don't want anyway. So at least get our money.
DRE: Actually it is Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where they ate the monkey brains.
AB: So the Minister of Culture was wrong.
DRE: At the In-Laws junket you said something which I still quote today, that everything they used to put in the trash they now put on DVD. That brought to mind the brand new Modern Romance DVD.
AB: There's nothing on there. But let me tell you something about that. At least they told me that they made a silly cover and I was like, Why did you do that? Then before they pressed them they gave me an initial DVD. I pressed Trailer and it was Spanglish. They said that they took it off. I had to watch it because I don't trust anyone when it comes to that
DRE: How was it seeing the film again?
AB: I was hairier then.
DRE: But it seems like a Looking for Comedy DVD would have fantastic stuff on it.
AB: I have about four deleted scenes and if you want to know the honest to God truth we had great behind the scenes DV cameras everyday on the set in India. The last conversation that I had with the studio was them saying We have to see how much that would cost to edit so I'm rebuffed at every angle. One person at the DVD division said, Oh making of's don't really sell DVDs. I got angry and said, Maybe when you're shooting in Sherman Oaks, but we're in India. That was the whole point of going there. You got to see where they picked up the trash at the Taj Mahal. It's interesting to see these places.
DRE: What are you doing next?
AB: I'm writing a movie roughly about just a different aspect of aging. That's all I'm going to say.
DRE: Are you going to star again?
AB: I don't know. I'll probably be too old.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 6 of 6 COMMENTS
centrum:
This man deserves and award for always fun and meaningfull.
centrum:
Does any one know his fathers name or his brothers name?