So the values of the broader culture are the target here, not one class of
people.
Twelve: Joel Schumacher
Tags: twelve, Joel Schumacher, lost boys, batman forever, director
To anyone who came of age in the late 80s or early 90s, director Joel Schumacher’s resume speaks for itself. The titles include The Lost Boys, his uniquely atmospheric horror film with its Jim Morrison-esque vision of a sun-baked Venice boardwalk under threat from miscreant vampires; Flatliners, the occult thriller about rogue medical students killing and reviving each other, which cemented the stardom of Julia Roberts, Kiefer Sutherland, and Kevin Bacon; Falling Down, the Michael Douglas-starring psycho-on-the-loose thriller which inspired a Newsweek cover and a national conversation about the rise of white panic conservatism; Batman Forever, which heralded the arrival of Jim Carrey as the maniacal Riddler and returned Batman to its campy TV roots, for a while. With a career spanning four decades, there have been many downs to match the ups, but through it all Schumacher’s identity as one of America’s most recognizable journeyman directors has never waned.
This past weekend marked the release of Twelve, his latest project, and the most recent to feature one of his recurring motifs: a cast of impressive young newcomers to the business. Emma Roberts, niece of Julia, is Molly, a sheltered Manhattan teen who is blissfully unaware that her would-be boyfriend Mike (Chace Crawford) is
actually “White Mike,” a notoriously prolific drug dealer known throughout Manhattan.
50 Cent also stars as Lionel,
a colleague of White Mike’s in the drug trade; Emily Meade is Jessica, an Upper East Side princess who gets hooked on a virulent street drug called “Twelve,” and Rory Culkin plays Chris, a well-to-do brat trying to get
together with a neighborhood blonde while keeping his increasingly strung-out brother in check. How the film resonates with 70 year-old Schumacher, who himself had a checkered youth in a very different Manhattan of the 1960s, was one of the things we
spoke about when he called up SuicideGirls last week.
Ryan Stewart: I was thinking about how Twelve fits in with the rest of your
filmography, if at all. I’d say that it’s further confirmation that you’re suspicious of the
leisurely upper classes and what they do with their money. Just look at Batman! Too
much money is the curse, right?
filmography, if at all. I’d say that it’s further confirmation that you’re suspicious of the
leisurely upper classes and what they do with their money. Just look at Batman! Too
much money is the curse, right?
Joel Schumacher: [laughs] No! I wish that was the story. Certainly the access these kids have to money is not helping, it just encourages them. But no, Ryan, you sound like a very smart guy and you know that the values – or lack of values – of the kids in this movie are going on everywhere. I think that’s just where our culture is. We're all
victims and villains in this. We live in a culture where recognition has become more important than accomplishment. Just be famous! It doesn't matter what you're famous for. There's that moment in the movie where Emily Meade, that terrific actress who plays Jessica, is talking to her teddy bears and she's wondering if she died what would
happen, and if that party in the movie really happened you know that would be all over the media for two weeks. And just what the bears say would be true! One news show would have the mother on, crying, another would have the girlfriend on and we'd know
what everybody had for breakfast, and the boy who is responsible for it -- that's Billy Magnussen, who does such a good job of playing Claude -- we would know everything about him. We'd know what he had for breakfast, we'd know everything that was on his computer, we'd know more about him than some of the people we work with. He would get all the attention. I think a lot of adults are at the mercy of all that, not just kids.
victims and villains in this. We live in a culture where recognition has become more important than accomplishment. Just be famous! It doesn't matter what you're famous for. There's that moment in the movie where Emily Meade, that terrific actress who plays Jessica, is talking to her teddy bears and she's wondering if she died what would
happen, and if that party in the movie really happened you know that would be all over the media for two weeks. And just what the bears say would be true! One news show would have the mother on, crying, another would have the girlfriend on and we'd know
what everybody had for breakfast, and the boy who is responsible for it -- that's Billy Magnussen, who does such a good job of playing Claude -- we would know everything about him. We'd know what he had for breakfast, we'd know everything that was on his computer, we'd know more about him than some of the people we work with. He would get all the attention. I think a lot of adults are at the mercy of all that, not just kids.
RS:
JS:
Well, who is the most famous person on any reality show? The worst
behaved! They are the ones who get all the attention and we are the ones responsible for this. I'm not pointing fingers, we're all in this together, and we sort of know it. I think these kids are certainly the victims of bad parenting. Remember, these are children. These
are kids who are sixteen, seventeen, eighteen at the most. I would love to say to you that this is only happening to the rich, but you know that's not true. I think if we went to a trailer park or the suburbs, no matter how well-meaning the parents there are, we'd see that a lot of them are single parents and they work and they have to put food on the table
or they're going through a divorce. There are a lot of problems that go on which don't make it easy for parents to be on the case all the time. I think there are some people who are lax, who are irresponsible, but I also think there are other people who just can't help
it. The kids are sometimes left on their own, and in the world we live in they are expected to grow up very fast now. They have sex really soon, they want to get dressed up and have all those fabulous material possessions. I actually think it's worse in other parts of the socio-economic structure. Those [less well-off] kids are going to do all that stuff, but
it's either going to be through credit or getting in debt, or their parents getting in debt, or crime.
behaved! They are the ones who get all the attention and we are the ones responsible for this. I'm not pointing fingers, we're all in this together, and we sort of know it. I think these kids are certainly the victims of bad parenting. Remember, these are children. These
are kids who are sixteen, seventeen, eighteen at the most. I would love to say to you that this is only happening to the rich, but you know that's not true. I think if we went to a trailer park or the suburbs, no matter how well-meaning the parents there are, we'd see that a lot of them are single parents and they work and they have to put food on the table
or they're going through a divorce. There are a lot of problems that go on which don't make it easy for parents to be on the case all the time. I think there are some people who are lax, who are irresponsible, but I also think there are other people who just can't help
it. The kids are sometimes left on their own, and in the world we live in they are expected to grow up very fast now. They have sex really soon, they want to get dressed up and have all those fabulous material possessions. I actually think it's worse in other parts of the socio-economic structure. Those [less well-off] kids are going to do all that stuff, but
it's either going to be through credit or getting in debt, or their parents getting in debt, or crime.
RS:
Do you know a lot of teenagers in your personal life? Could you speak the lingo well enough?
JS:
Well, I've made a lot of films with young people and there are certainly a lot of young people that I work with. I have a lot of god children and a lot of friends with kids. But the cast will assist me in showing me how young people act. And this was a great cast and they were fun. But I don't impose those things on people, I don't sit with teens and try to convince them that I'm cool and should hang out with them or be their bro. [laughs] No, no. I'm their director and that's what I'm there for. But the novel itself was written by a seventeen year old, Nick McDonell.
RS:
This was obviously a quick, down and dirty shoot. Is there time for any sort of mentoring of the young cast on a professional level?
JS:
I don't know if I had anything to offer, but I sure had time to talk to each and every one of them, for sure. They are so talented, and it's my job to first hire talented people and then to remind them of how talented they are. You can't make someone talented, and these kids have the chops, as they say. You guide them a little bit, you know? Each actor, no matter what age they are or where they are in their experience, will need something different from a director and my job is to try to sort of suss that out, to
figure out if they need a parent, if they need a shrink, if they need someone to kick their butt; whatever it is that each person needs, they'll let you know. It's the same as if you had a whole bunch of children: one rule doesn't work for the whole bunch. And it would be the same even if everyone was a very accomplished actor, you know? I'm starting a film at the end of this month with Nicolas Cage and Nicole Kidman and I've known both of them for most of their professional lives and I've worked with both of them. I worked with Nicole in Batman Forever and I did 8MM with Nick, and we're friends also. And they are very different talents and very different people. They have different
psyches and different needs, and you want to be there for both of them. Then there are people like Cate Blanchett and Sam Jackson and Philip Seymour Hoffman that really want to kind of be left alone a little bit, to do-do their voo-doo, you know? And what they look to you for is 'little bit to the left, little bit to the right' or 'that was perfect' or whatever. Some of them like to talk things out, some of them like to rehearse a long time, some of them like to shoot right away, each person is different.
figure out if they need a parent, if they need a shrink, if they need someone to kick their butt; whatever it is that each person needs, they'll let you know. It's the same as if you had a whole bunch of children: one rule doesn't work for the whole bunch. And it would be the same even if everyone was a very accomplished actor, you know? I'm starting a film at the end of this month with Nicolas Cage and Nicole Kidman and I've known both of them for most of their professional lives and I've worked with both of them. I worked with Nicole in Batman Forever and I did 8MM with Nick, and we're friends also. And they are very different talents and very different people. They have different
psyches and different needs, and you want to be there for both of them. Then there are people like Cate Blanchett and Sam Jackson and Philip Seymour Hoffman that really want to kind of be left alone a little bit, to do-do their voo-doo, you know? And what they look to you for is 'little bit to the left, little bit to the right' or 'that was perfect' or whatever. Some of them like to talk things out, some of them like to rehearse a long time, some of them like to shoot right away, each person is different.
RS:
Speaking of Trespass, there have been some stories leaking out over the last few days about Nick Cage changing roles from leading man to villain back to leading man.
JS:
Well, it's a little unfair, what people are saying. They are both fantastic roles, and there are pluses and minuses to each part, as there is in everything. He being an artist, there are times when he has embraced one role and then saw a way to do the other role. In the role that he settled on, he and Nicole are the married couple -- that's the role I offered him.
RS:
Did you get Emma Roberts onto this film through the Aunt Julia connection?
JS:
No, you know how Interview Magazine does that thing of having people who are not journalists interview each other? The editors of Interview, Ingrid Sischi and Sandra Brant, asked me to interview Emma when she was seventeen or sixteen, which I did, over the phone, and she was absolutely delightful. She was charming. We didn't meet through Julia at all. The only thing that's even really similar about them is that they are both really talented and both gorgeous. They are very different personalities. And Emma and Rory Culkin were the first people I asked to be in the film, theirs were the first parts.
RS:
It's interesting that the film’s title, Twelve, is the name of a new street drug, but that's just a detail. The drug doesn't really have any noticeable properties that we see, and I couldn't figure out why that title.
JS:
I never really asked Nick that, but I thought it was brilliant of him to just make up his own drug, because no one would have an idea of what it was and it would give everyone a chance to create what that drug means for them in their own mind, instead of going for an accuracy thing with a drug and then everybody could say "No, that wasn't
my experience!" or "You could never do that on....." You know, it would be endless stuff. And I thought that just having a fictional drug that was instantly addictive was quite interesting. It's a very bold book and I think it's a bold idea to name it after the drug, but I think you could also kind of look at it as the story of twelve people, maybe.
my experience!" or "You could never do that on....." You know, it would be endless stuff. And I thought that just having a fictional drug that was instantly addictive was quite interesting. It's a very bold book and I think it's a bold idea to name it after the drug, but I think you could also kind of look at it as the story of twelve people, maybe.
RS:
Was there anything in the story that reminded you of your own colorful youth in Manhattan?
JS:
Well, yes. You know, I've certainly dipped in and out of glamorous, reckless lives and I had a very long bout in my own life with drugs and alcohol and a lot of risk addiction and bad behavior and I fucked up. But in the long run, I think that no matter how many worlds I've been a part of and how accepting and wonderful people have been to me all my life since I was a kid, I think I've always felt more like White Mike. My
parents died when I was very young, and there are scenes in the film where White Mike is walking in Manhattan alone, just dealing with his own grief and whatever he's living through, and I think I felt connected to that person and the sense of his isolation and his grieving and trying to come to terms with all of that. Over the course of those three days he takes a look at himself, especially when there are events that he is part of that he's
somewhat responsible for, and I think Emma is really great at the end of the movie in nailing him on that and loving him enough to tell him the truth. I think at the end when he goes to visit someone who also grieves, he realizes that his grief is not the center of the universe. That's really the only way to get out of grief: to have compassion and serve
others. As his mother says to him: "We have to live the best lives that we can no matter what happens to us." That's not an excuse. Parents lose their children. People lose their loved ones in war. And yes, you can always sit in the dark and grieve or you can maybe go and visit someone else who's having problems.
parents died when I was very young, and there are scenes in the film where White Mike is walking in Manhattan alone, just dealing with his own grief and whatever he's living through, and I think I felt connected to that person and the sense of his isolation and his grieving and trying to come to terms with all of that. Over the course of those three days he takes a look at himself, especially when there are events that he is part of that he's
somewhat responsible for, and I think Emma is really great at the end of the movie in nailing him on that and loving him enough to tell him the truth. I think at the end when he goes to visit someone who also grieves, he realizes that his grief is not the center of the universe. That's really the only way to get out of grief: to have compassion and serve
others. As his mother says to him: "We have to live the best lives that we can no matter what happens to us." That's not an excuse. Parents lose their children. People lose their loved ones in war. And yes, you can always sit in the dark and grieve or you can maybe go and visit someone else who's having problems.
RS:
Not to keep harping on the names of things, but what significance do you see in that name White Mike? The narrator, Kiefer Sutherland, refers to him by that nickname over and over.
JS:
Well, what Kiefer is saying are the words from the book, and that's just
how the book is written. White Mike was a real character, by the way. He was quite legendary for selling drugs to young people and Nick McDonell says he's dead now, but the teenagers in the New York area know White Mike. White Mike became a name, a generic name, for whoever the dealer was in your high-school. White Mike was the guy,
the man. He's the guy who is gonna come with the drugs, and so a lot of people took the name White Mike even though they aren't the real White Mike. So, if someone tells you that they know White Mike, they know their White Mike, but they don't know the real White Mike. But yeah, there was a real White Mike and his name was White Mike, and
in the book he is never referred to as anything else. And I like that name, White Mike.
how the book is written. White Mike was a real character, by the way. He was quite legendary for selling drugs to young people and Nick McDonell says he's dead now, but the teenagers in the New York area know White Mike. White Mike became a name, a generic name, for whoever the dealer was in your high-school. White Mike was the guy,
the man. He's the guy who is gonna come with the drugs, and so a lot of people took the name White Mike even though they aren't the real White Mike. So, if someone tells you that they know White Mike, they know their White Mike, but they don't know the real White Mike. But yeah, there was a real White Mike and his name was White Mike, and
in the book he is never referred to as anything else. And I like that name, White Mike.
RS:
Kiefer has such a great voice. Have you ever tried to get him to do your
outgoing message?
outgoing message?
JS:
[laughs] I will now! I'm gonna tell him that. This was our fifth movie together. And also, speaking of Kiefer's voice, what he did in Phone Booth was so great, wasn’t it? You could only see him for a split second at the end of the movie and other than that he was just a voice on the phone -- and he was really controlling the whole movie. And he's just phenomenal.
RS:
Your career's had an interesting trajectory, with all different budgets and styles. I’ve heard casual movie-watching friends wonder aloud why you aren’t still making highly-stylized, polished studio films like 8MM.
JS:
Well, I think of Twelve as very stylized. Do you mean big gloss?
RS:
Right.
JS:
I think that depends on the subject matter. And I wouldn't call 8MM glossy, because 8MM wouldn't get made at a studio today. It would be way too controversial. You'd have to make that one as an independent movie. I think Phantom of the Opera is as glossy as it gets. That one would be the king of gloss in my career, and you know, it's different strokes for different folks. I like all kinds of movies myself, and people like the ones that you're talking about should know that I just make all kinds of movies. Tigerland was very gritty and even hand-held!
RS:
I’d be remiss if I didn’t get in one question about my favorite of yours,
The Lost Boys. Do you have fond memories of working with Corey Haim?
The Lost Boys. Do you have fond memories of working with Corey Haim?
JS:
Oh, he was just dazzling. He was so good-looking and so funny and so charming. There was no way in the world that that fantastic thirteen year-old kid's life could have turned out the way that it did. There was not one clue, to me, that it was ever going to happen to him and it's really tragic. And I did stay in touch with him over the years and it was really like losing a family member. It's just horrible. That's all I can tell you, just that it's so horrible. But making that movie was one of the most fun things that
I've ever done. We didn't know that it would be successful, and we really just made up a lot of it right on the set. It was a blast.
Twelve is playing now in select cities.
I've ever done. We didn't know that it would be successful, and we really just made up a lot of it right on the set. It was a blast.
Twelve is playing now in select cities.
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