Robert Smigel - The Best of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog DVD
Last week I got to interview Robert Smigel for almost two hours and he seemed to enjoy himself. Since Smigel has been so prolific over the past 25 years or so of his career we could have a two-hour conversation everyday and never talk about the same thing twice.
I read my first article about Smigel back in the late 80s and early 90s when his sketches on Saturday Night Live really began to garner a lot of attention. Sketches such as William Shatner Get a life; the Superfans and Schmidts Gay were hysterical as well as mildly controversial. Of course during this tenure he also helped create Late Night with Conan OBrien one of the most revolutionary comedy shows on television since the days of Ernie Kovacs. As head writer of this talk show Smigel shaped its unique humor, which is still the Conan trademark to this day.
But it wasnt until he helped create The Dana Carvey Show that Smigel truly came into his own because that was the first time he started doing cartoons. After that short-lived sketch show was cancelled Smigel moved his revolutionary cartoons over to Saturday Night Live where he still does them.
It doesnt end there! While his cartoons were insanely popular Smigel himself wasnt very well known. Once again it all changed when he created Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. After many memorable appearances on Late Night with Conan O'Brien the cigar smoking puppet dog soon became the most popular gag on the show.
The dog proved so popular that Smigel was given the chance to create a show that showcased his funniest passions, cartoons and puppets. Thus TV Funhouse was born and ran for eight episodes on Comedy Central.
Most recently Smigel released, Come Poop with Me, a hysterical CD of Triumph singing songs such as Cats are Cunts with Conan OBrien and 30 Seconds Of Magic with Adam Sandler.
But finally all of our prayers are being answered and a DVD, The Best of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, is being released. It features such classic bits as his very first appearance, Bon Jovi, the Video Music Awards, the infamous romp through Quebec and the legendary Attack of the Nerds at a Star Wars premiere.
The DVD will be released on August 10 but you can preorder it now. Please remember, that though funny, pooping on this DVD will ruin it.
Check out the official Triumph the Insult Comic Dog website
Daniel Robert Epstein: So I read you were born on the same day as James Spader, hows that working out?
Robert Smigel: Its amazing that you know that.
DRE:
Its on the Internet.
RS:
I dont know what the significance is besides the fact that we both have masturbated with our breasts on film.
Thats not true but when I saw Sex, Lies, and Videotape and found out that we were born on the same day I was jealous. Why him? Conan and I used to call the way he oddly massages his chest area in that movie, Spaderbating.
Thats not true but when I saw Sex, Lies, and Videotape and found out that we were born on the same day I was jealous. Why him? Conan and I used to call the way he oddly massages his chest area in that movie, Spaderbating.
DRE:
How come you keep showing Lookwell at The Other Network?
RS:
I dont keep showing it [laughs]. I think they have a very limited inventory. Theyve got about 15 shows they think are too cool for networks so they run them into the ground. They show two things I worked on, Lookwell and this clown show that I did. I guess they are making a living doing this.
DRE:
Sometimes you introduce them at The Knitting Factory.
RS:
I was excited to have people look at them. I hadnt looked at them pretty much since they had been cancelled. Neither show had a real studio audience so it was cool to see how a real audience would respond. The clown show had an audience but it was basically children and confused parents. The idea wasnt to make the audience laugh but for them to be props at our disposal.
DRE:
Now the kids are somewhat sexually confused after seeing the show.
RS:
There was this one black mother who left during the taping saying, Yall going to hell. Time will tell if she is right.
DRE:
If someone said to you and Conan, I want to bring Lookwell back. Would you do it?
RS:
[laughs] Well Conan is a little busy. I dont know if he is going to want to chuck everything and showrun an Adam West vehicle. Maybe if Leno really doesnt ever quit but that could be years before we make that determination. I pray Adam West can hang on that long.
DRE:
Does Adam West still call you sometimes?
RS:
He doesnt. I think the last time I called him was when I wrote something for him to do on Saturday Night Live, which I still havent bothered to produce. It had kind of a Lookwell feel to it. It was more of a direct parody of the old Batman show and it was called Adam West. It was going to be shot in Batman style. The villains were other similarly aged actors like Mike Connors and William Shatner who were competing with him for voiceover and spokesman roles for products like adult bibs. Adam Wests sidekick was an old Jewish agent who would come to him with offers and he would be like, Adult bibs, perfect. Then he would get a fax that he had an audition and he would say, That audition was for yesterday. Then he would stroke his chin and say, George Kennedy. Then you would cut to George Kennedy at an adjusted angle laughing like the Joker. It was all going to culminate in a great fight scene with sound effects where he would push someone and the word SHOVE or OLD would come up. That was that. Maybe Ill still do it but it would require a lot of effort to shoot because it would have to really look like a Batman episode. I dont know if I can put Adam West and George Kennedy through that.
DRE:
What about animated?
RS:
It wouldnt be as funny. When you're mocking the elderly you really want to see the elderly.
DRE:
Is that a great comedy ethos, When you're mocking the elderly you really want to see the elderly?
RS:
[laughs] I just made that one up. But thats ok; I make up a lot of rules just off the top of my head and try to impose them on gullible comedy writers. I did that at Conan all the time.
DRE:
Whats going on with the second season of TV Funhouse?
RS:
The second season of TV Funhouse? [laughs] What makes you say that?
DRE:
You mentioned it at The Knitting Factory last year.
RS:
You went to that?
DRE:
Yeah.
RS:
That was when I thought there was going to be a second season of TV Funhouse. There isnt going to be one as far as Ive heard. Back then we were trying to fund the program a different way. We were going to move the show to Toronto and a Toronto animator was very interested in owning half the show and splitting the cost with Comedy Central. The problem with the show was not ratings or anything but simply budgetary. We went into overtime almost every night trying to manipulate live animals and puppets. Some things are funny because god didnt intend them for them to exist but they are also expensive for that reason. When you're trying to do something with a live chimp playing a nurse, a puppet lizard where the chimp has to hold a semen sample and then the chimp has to appear to toss the sample into the lizards puppet face because the chimp is offended by something the lizard does you are going to go through three or four chimps. They are just going to get mad and walk off the set. Then youve got to talk down the chimp and kiss its ass.
DRE:
I think Milton Berle wrote that in his autobiography.
RS:
Then that never even made the show. That was too gross even for us. Once we put it into the body of the show we realized we couldnt use it. The show went about $200,000 over budget on every episode. The network was really cool about it because they loved the show and they understood why it was happening. It was an impossible thing for anyone to anticipate. We were doing the best we can with something that had never been attempted before. We weathered it and we were writing episodes for the second season when the economy crumbled and advertising rates plummeted around early 2001. They came to us and said they couldnt afford the show anymore. I was angry because they seemed very cavalier and confident about what the show entailed. They seemed to back it up during the first season but then the rug got pulled out from under us. I came to understand that the economics of the network had changed.
It literally took a year to figure out a way to restructure the thing and to get a studio onboard we trusted and that was excited about it. By that time [executive producer] Dino [Stamatopoulos] was really low on money and couldnt wait so he took another job. I also had lost interest by that point because to make the show work I wasnt going to make very much money. In fact I was going to make less money per episode than I do making SNL cartoons and working on Conan. It was hard for me to be a parent and justify putting in those kinds of hours for that kind of payback. Its sad because thats the way I ran my career for years when I was younger but the realities of my family are such that I cant do it.
I think the last labor of love I will ever have been involved in just for fun was the Triumph comedy album, which Im not making a penny off of.
It literally took a year to figure out a way to restructure the thing and to get a studio onboard we trusted and that was excited about it. By that time [executive producer] Dino [Stamatopoulos] was really low on money and couldnt wait so he took another job. I also had lost interest by that point because to make the show work I wasnt going to make very much money. In fact I was going to make less money per episode than I do making SNL cartoons and working on Conan. It was hard for me to be a parent and justify putting in those kinds of hours for that kind of payback. Its sad because thats the way I ran my career for years when I was younger but the realities of my family are such that I cant do it.
I think the last labor of love I will ever have been involved in just for fun was the Triumph comedy album, which Im not making a penny off of.
DRE:
How is that possible?
RS:
I did get an advance but it wasnt a very good one for a record. It sold 120,000 copies so far and maybe Ill see some royalties at some point but they have to recoup their investment first. Suffice it to say Im not counting on that for my annuity.
DRE:
120,000 copies isnt that great.
RS:
No, its not but it is pretty good for a comedy album. Most of those sales were in the first few months when I was promoting it heavily. I did things I wouldnt normally do like I did the Billboard Music Awards, which is a pretty cheesy, but I did get Dave Grohl to come up and do a bit with me.
DRE:
I went to go see you at the Virgin Megastore in Times Square.
RS:
You went to that?
DRE:
Of course.
RS:
It was ok. It should have been in the Village, which is what I said all along. Thats not the audience for it. I think at the end of the day Triumph has a core audience. Conans show is on late at night and no matter what its just not a mainstream act.
DRE:
The Virgin Megastore appearance was promoted oddly too. They said you have to buy the CD to get a ticket to it. Then they let anyone who walked in come see the show.
RS:
So you didnt have to buy the CD?
DRE:
Yeah with promotions like that people just assume all the tickets are gone in the first 15 minutes so they dont even bother showing up.
RS:
Thats kind of creepy. I didnt even know about that. Im going to go back in time and the first thing Im going to do is hit the Virgin Megastore that night [laughs].
DRE:
How about a DVD set of the first season of TV Funhouse? That seems like a no-brainer.
RS:
I wish you had a say in all of these projects.
After The Commies [Comedy Centrals first awards show], which is another thing I never would have done had I not been promoting a CD, I met the Comedy Central executive who handles DVDs. He brought it up to me. Of course I would like a DVD but I dont have control over anything Ive ever done. Ive been a complete whore for being paid up front on almost everything Ive ever done. The only thing Ive ever done on spec was the X-Presidents comic book.
After The Commies [Comedy Centrals first awards show], which is another thing I never would have done had I not been promoting a CD, I met the Comedy Central executive who handles DVDs. He brought it up to me. Of course I would like a DVD but I dont have control over anything Ive ever done. Ive been a complete whore for being paid up front on almost everything Ive ever done. The only thing Ive ever done on spec was the X-Presidents comic book.
DRE:
I love that comic so much.
RS:
Adam McKay and I wrote that as a spec script but we couldnt get a buyer for it. In the early days of the SNL cartoons I was approached to do an Ambiguously Gay Duo cartoon movie. I didnt see how to make that work. The cartoons are so deliberately one-dimensional. Then I thought about the X-Presidents who are these four real guys who are solidly two-dimensional [laughs]. Adam McKay and I wrote it as a screenplay and we got dicked around by a few studios. But because no studio had paid for it I was able to use every part of the buffalo and have it turned into a graphic novel.
DRE:
They gave that away to journalists for the Little Nicky press junket.
RS:
I didnt know that either. I like that though so thats good news. Thats another hundred people who have to read that book or at least own it. I think it sold about 18,000 copies. But it wasnt marketed right because it didnt really get into any adult comic book stores. It was only sold at bookstores in the comedy section.
This is such a cheerful interview. The failures and what went wrong. Whats next? Dana Carvey?
This is such a cheerful interview. The failures and what went wrong. Whats next? Dana Carvey?
DRE:
Ok, then who wrote the sketch from The Dana Carvey Show where President Clinton breastfeeds the puppies.
RS:
Louis CK conceived the sketch and I wrote it with him. At the time I remember Louis saying, We draw a line in the sand right away. People will know right away whether they are with us or against us. I guess after Home Improvement thats not the best strategy.
DRE:
Lets talk about the Triumph DVD.
RS:
Good, that hasnt failed yet so I can still be psyched about that.
That was one that NBC came to me about three years ago. They are always getting new people to take over their marketing. It starts with some enthusiastic guy on the phone who calls me and says theyd love to do a compilation of blah, blah, blah. Then about six months later a different person calls me and says, He doesnt work here anymore but Im the one in charge of picking up the Triumph compilation. This person is equally enthusiastic and we went through about three firings before we hit one that stayed on long enough to make it.
There was another issue with Triumph because we didnt make that puppet. My wife bought it for me at this odd country furniture and animal puppet store. It was just something that she saw and it was so realistic looking that she knew I would go crazy for it. In fact she bought me ten puppets of different dog breeds, a seal and a sheep some of whom have had sex with Triumph. Then by the time they wanted to start milking the Triumph cow they had to deal with the complication of not knowing who created this puppet. The company went out of business years ago. They researched it far enough to find out that the mold had been broken and they had no idea who had a claim on the puppet.
That was one that NBC came to me about three years ago. They are always getting new people to take over their marketing. It starts with some enthusiastic guy on the phone who calls me and says theyd love to do a compilation of blah, blah, blah. Then about six months later a different person calls me and says, He doesnt work here anymore but Im the one in charge of picking up the Triumph compilation. This person is equally enthusiastic and we went through about three firings before we hit one that stayed on long enough to make it.
There was another issue with Triumph because we didnt make that puppet. My wife bought it for me at this odd country furniture and animal puppet store. It was just something that she saw and it was so realistic looking that she knew I would go crazy for it. In fact she bought me ten puppets of different dog breeds, a seal and a sheep some of whom have had sex with Triumph. Then by the time they wanted to start milking the Triumph cow they had to deal with the complication of not knowing who created this puppet. The company went out of business years ago. They researched it far enough to find out that the mold had been broken and they had no idea who had a claim on the puppet.
DRE:
Thats like a compliment.
RS:
That they broke the mold? [laughs] When they made Triumph they went out of business, didnt pay any taxes and to cover their asses they destroyed or as we like to say, broke the mold. But I dont know what happened because they were made in Mexico.
But its all done and the Triumph DVD is coming out in August. Its Triumph on television from the Conan OBrien.
But its all done and the Triumph DVD is coming out in August. Its Triumph on television from the Conan OBrien.
DRE:
But not the appearance on Leno.
RS:
No, we couldnt afford the appearance on Leno. We do have his music video and a lot of outtakes. We put together four mini remotes of additional material from Bon Jovis concert, from the Hawaii trip, the Star Wars line and one other one. This is something that people will really want. The comedy album I did sort of for myself. Originally when I thought about doing the album I never expected everyone to embrace it because its very dirty. I assumed there was people who loved Triumph partly because of the way we go right up to the line of good taste and dance on it which the album crosses many times. Some people delight in it and others are repelled.
DRE:
Why did it take so long for the Night of Too Many Stars to get on TV?
RS:
We did the show in February and aired in May.
DRE:
It seemed like it was longer.
RS:
I honestly couldnt tell you about that. I was just involved with producing the show. All they told us was that they would put it on at some point.
DRE:
Were you happy with it though?
RS:
Yes the show itself was a big success that night. We raised something like $1.4 million for the charity. We would have never have been able to mount a show like that if NBC hadnt put up a lot of money towards the production of it. Getting it on TV was kind of a bonus. Did you see it?
DRE:
Yes and because it had so many stars in it I thought NBC would have promoted it more heavily.
RS:
It did have too many stars in it. I think that since it was connected to a charity so if they made too big a deal of it a million charities would be banging on their door for similar treatment.
DRE:
I was lucky enough to talk with Tina Fey when she was promoting Mean Girls. I asked her that as co-head writer, what is it like to rewrite Robert Smigel. She said that you dont rewrite Robert Smigel and that you are a mad genius.
RS:
Oh, well thats incorrect. Mad maybe.
I hold my stuff to a very high standard, which is the nicest thing I can say about it.
I hold my stuff to a very high standard, which is the nicest thing I can say about it.
DRE:
Are you given autonomy in terms of sketches?
RS:
Not really. I am with my cartoons and maybe thats what she meant. Tina Fey does an incredible job. For someone who is on magazine covers all the time you would be amazed to know how much time she puts into doing her job properly. You would think that someone like that would start cutting themselves some slack. When I am on the fence about doing a cartoon or not I will email her and she will always return the email with ideas. Its harder to write the cartoons than when I was a sketch writer there because I work in a vacuum. I work from home and I know that the cartoon is going to get on the air unlike a sketch. When you know something is going to get on the air you are much harder on it because you are the only person who can control whether its going to suck or not. If I wrote a sketch and I know that other people are going to decide whether its producible that takes a lot of the pressure off. I can just throw anything down on paper and put it into a read through. When I have to make the decision I tend to agonize for a while over which idea is worth doing.
DRE:
Do you still have sketches on SNL?
RS:
Yeah Ill submit like five things a year. Its not particularly expected of me. The first year I did cartoons I was supposed to write sketches whenever I felt like it, which was part of my deal and I was actually paid more. Then I backed away from that because I wanted to have time to do other things. From the second year on I was involved in developing TV Funhouse show. Now I only write them when I have an idea that I am psyched about and its something the show might need. I wrote something when Janet Jackson hosted. I was watching the Condoleezza Rice testimony and the show was going to be on in two days so I had this idea to have Janet play Rice with Dick Cheney desperately trying to give her advice because the testimony was so contradictory. Cheney suggests that Rice flash a boob so that was just solving an SNL equation. More often than not thats the kind of ideas Ill have now for sketches. This person is hosting and Ill wonder how they are going to comment on things such as Christina Aguileras reputation as a whore.
DRE:
Did you write the Schmidt's Gay commercial parody back in the day?
RS:
Yeah.
DRE:
Whenever I feel blue I just think of Schmidt's Gay and I laugh.
RS:
Thats nice. It was one of those easy premises to come up with. It was based on my rage towards the endless commercials that were coming out at that time of equating beer with chicks. I hated them partly because of the lame sexism and partly because they were so painfully obvious. Every beer company was doing the same thing for a while. Two idiots would look at each like You thinking what Im thinking? Then girls show up. What does this have to do with the beer tasting good? Usually it was with the beers that tasted the shittiest. It was a nice practical joke on those commercials. The best thing about it was the way it was directed, edited and performed by [Adam] Sandler and [Chris] Farley. That was before either of them were that big on the show. Its not my favorite though; Cluckin Chicken is probably one of my personal favorites.
DRE:
Cluckin Chicken is also one of my favorites. Hows the me?
RS:
[laughs] I love cartoons and I love mascots. Ive been endlessly amused for years at inappropriate mascots for products.
DRE:
Im glad you brought that up because for a while KFC took their dead founder and turned him into a cartoon. It was really bizarre.
RS:
It was bizarre. I wrote a cartoon, I think my friend Greg Cohen came up with it, for the second season of TV Funhouse. We wrote a commercial with the dead Colonel. Not only is he alive and reinvented but hes got so much more energy than the Colonel ever did. It was Colonel Sanders talking about chicken then he goes, Love that KFC, right Ronald Reagan? Then Reagan is bouncing around and he goes, KFC is one chicken you wont forget, just ask Muhammad Ali then there is a really lively Muhammad Ali and then a lively Richard Pryor, Hey MS isnt fun but eating KFC is the next best thing to a Rock Hudson movie. Then Rock Hudson and Stephen Hawking come on. It was that kind of thing. It ends with the Def Leppard drummer [Rick Allen] having two arms. Thats just a little taste of season two.
I have another cartoon Ive wanted to do about the Disney vault, which is one of the most cretinous creations in marketing history, Sleeping Beauty is going into the Disney vault! You wont be able to buy Sleeping Beauty for ten years. I wanted to do a cartoon about kids who wanted to live in the Disney vault where all the good cartoons are. Then they go into the vault and there is all this awful stuff in there like Walt Disneys frozen head and Nazi paraphernalia. Just every awful rumor there ever was about Disney is confirmed in the vault.
I have another cartoon Ive wanted to do about the Disney vault, which is one of the most cretinous creations in marketing history, Sleeping Beauty is going into the Disney vault! You wont be able to buy Sleeping Beauty for ten years. I wanted to do a cartoon about kids who wanted to live in the Disney vault where all the good cartoons are. Then they go into the vault and there is all this awful stuff in there like Walt Disneys frozen head and Nazi paraphernalia. Just every awful rumor there ever was about Disney is confirmed in the vault.
DRE:
I read Naomi Odenkirks book, which was a history of Mr. Show. Did you read that at all?
RS:
I skimmed it.
DRE:
I thought it was interesting that the guy from TV Funhouse
RS:
Doug Dale, the out of work comedian.
DRE:
You, him, Conan and Bob Odenkirk all used to live near each other in the 80s.
RS:
Yeah I met Bob in Chicago in the mid-1980s. I was there to learn improv after fucking up in college. Sketch comedy is huge there so its a great place to meet like-minded idiots who are chucking their lives away to be funny. Thats what I was doing. I met Bob at this improv class called Players Workshop at Second City. I instantly thought that Bob was the funniest person in the city. When I got hired at SNL he was the only guy from Chicago that I recommended to work on the show.
DRE:
I found this old quote from you in 1985 from after you got hired on SNL, "The fact that no one from Second City is on the show is just one more element that makes me feel awed and undeserving." What did that mean?
RS:
The year I was hired [Al] Franken and [Tom] Davis saw our stage show which was some self produced effort we did in a theatre in Chicago. It was a show we all put our money into, which ended up being very successful and allowed us to quit our jobs and earn a living doing it just a few nights a week. It was called All You Can Eat and the Temple of Doom. It was just coincidence that Franken and Davis were making a movie in Chicago at that time. They ended up casting one of our performers, a guy named Dave Reynolds who is now a screenwriter and co-wrote Finding Nemo. There was something Tom and Al liked about our show. Maybe they were tired of what they perceived Second City to be and were looking for something different. I auditioned for SNL along with a couple of people but none of us got into the cast although I got hired as a writer.
The point is that there were people like Dan Castellaneta at Second City and other people that I would go out of my way to see perform. I wasnt very much into improv because a lot of it at the time was a series of tricks like Were going to tell a story in the style of an author you suggest. I was neither interested in doing it nor particularly quick witted enough to spit out delightful parodies of Emily Dickinson meeting a proctologist or whatever crap they were asked to do.
The point is that there were people like Dan Castellaneta at Second City and other people that I would go out of my way to see perform. I wasnt very much into improv because a lot of it at the time was a series of tricks like Were going to tell a story in the style of an author you suggest. I was neither interested in doing it nor particularly quick witted enough to spit out delightful parodies of Emily Dickinson meeting a proctologist or whatever crap they were asked to do.
DRE:
I spoke to Harry Shearer a few years ago and he said that most of the people who work at Saturday Night Live whether they're on the air or off, will secretly tell you they hate it.
RS:
I think every generation gets more used to the process and they understand the deal because there is a cumulative history being written and wisdom is accrued. I think people know what they are getting into more now, certainly more than in the 70s and I would say even when I was there. People kind of understand that its a competitive environment filled with people who love themselves. Every artist loves themselves on some level. Most of these people were probably the stars of the shows they were hired from. Its a formula for conflict but I think the new generation of cast understands what they are getting into from the get-go so their expectations are a little less lofty. Their hopes are still lofty but I think they are better prepared to take it in stride. I would say that when Harry Shearer was there, that was probably the case. A common thing that people say about the show is that it should be more fun. When you read biographies of SCTV its this unit of people that is much tighter and seemingly more trusting of each other. But when you dig a little deeper there are always tensions in any of these collaborations. I know the guys from The Kids in the Hall very well and they arent shy about talking about the squabbles they had with their complete creative freedom. So part of it is just the nature of a sketch comedy review. Things are going to get rejected and people are going to get hurt which happens every week at SNL.
DRE:
On the DVD that came with the Triumph comedy album why was Steven, the Dell Guy at the Triumph live concert?
RS:
[laughs] That disturbed you?
DRE:
Hes so easy to make fun of I wondered why he had to show up there.
RS:
[laughs] We couldnt get the Can you hear me now guy. It turned out to be very entertaining because the Dell guy was nice enough to get shitfaced before the show and have very little idea of where he was. It kind of gave the whole thing a Anna Nicole Smith gloss you dont get on network TV. I dont get to make fun of people that are that helpless very often or should I say Triumph doesnt. There is no joy for me in hurting these people, I blame the puppet.
DRE:
So you invited a bunch of people and they knew they were coming there to get
RS:
Shit on or as we say in network television, pooped on. What I like about that concert was that you get to see people attempt to fight back. It was a different experience for me because I usually know exactly what I am going to say when Im on Conan. This was really the first time Triumph was forced to improvise without a net. I can improvise in the remote pieces all I want and if it doesnt work I can cut it out. But onstage and I have to live or die with whatever I say. I am happy it went as well as it did because I dont really consider improv a big part of my repertoire.
DRE:
What was funny about it was that they would fight back by making fun of the fact that Triumph is a puppet dog.
RS:
They would try to deconstruct which is almost like cheating.
DRE:
Thats not going to accomplish anything. You know you're not an actual dog.
RS:
[laughs] I dont know but it somehow was funny. It was pretty fear driven because Im not used to having to think that quickly and be on top of people to humiliate them right on the spot. Its usually cold, calculated and preplanned.
DRE:
The kind of humor that Triumph does seems to be the kind that comedians like yourself dont like. Just making fun of people.
RS:
[laughs] The thing about Triumph that is kind of odd and may have led to the problem in Quebec is that I conceived Triumph as a conceptual joke about a lame kind of comedy, insult comedy. What if a dog did it and he was so lame that all he could say is for me to poop on! It was purely conceptual and the audiences directive was to be laughing at Triumph and not with him. That worked just fine a few times. But the character was working so well and we were having of much fun that it became an example of me creating rules then loosening them. In the early stages of the Conan show there were things I wouldnt let us do because they were things that Letterman would do. They would sound arbitrary if I recalled them but Triumph had certain rules based on the logic of the character that I loosened after a while because it seemed to still work. For example, I wouldnt make any joke that didnt have to do with Triumph being a dog on some level. Now I would say that maybe one out of five jokes have to do with being a dog. Then as we decided to stay with the character they didnt want me to poop on people unless it was somebody like John Tesh, Pauly Shore, David Hasselhoff basically real prime poop targets. Early on it didnt even matter and it would be Matthew Broderick. It was all about the dog being a dick and it became this thing where we actually make fun of people. By the time we got to doing the remotes the pendulum had really swung in favor of laughing with Triumph rather than at him. Then we went to Quebec and the concept was a more pure Triumph idea.
In our mind the joke was going to be on Triumph because he was going to go to this place where they dont speak English and we thought the jokes could be lame and therefore funnier because people didnt understand them. The audience wasnt instructed in the change of plans. Minutes before, the Space Needle from Seattle had a foot race against the Toronto CN Tower where they booed the Space Needle lustily. Then we did the Triumph bit and at the very mention of Quebec they booed. People who arent familiar with the show took it seriously then there were politicians who took the Triumph bit very seriously.
In our mind the joke was going to be on Triumph because he was going to go to this place where they dont speak English and we thought the jokes could be lame and therefore funnier because people didnt understand them. The audience wasnt instructed in the change of plans. Minutes before, the Space Needle from Seattle had a foot race against the Toronto CN Tower where they booed the Space Needle lustily. Then we did the Triumph bit and at the very mention of Quebec they booed. People who arent familiar with the show took it seriously then there were politicians who took the Triumph bit very seriously.
DRE:
They used it as a bid for power.
RS:
[laughs] I heard people say that they used it to get some soundbites because it was an election year. I was pretty concerned about the whole thing because you dont like to be called racist and the whole Canada trip had been going pretty well up until that point.
DRE:
Do you still keep in touch with [Monk creator] Andy Breckman?
RS:
Yeah a lot. Andy is a great guy. He helped on The Night of Too Many Stars and TV Funhouse. He came up with the funniest cartoon on the show, Steadman. Hes a very funny guy.
DRE:
I dont think people realized that you worked on a few of your cartoons with Stephen Colbert.
RS:
We might write a feature film together. He helped me on a couple of the Ambiguously Gay Duo cartoons.
DRE:
Did you meet him in Chicago?
RS:
Yes. I met him when I was scouting in Chicago for performers for Saturday Night Live. I saw Stephen when he was an understudy at a Second City show and I thought he was amazing. I sort of stayed in touch with him after that and ultimately hired him to be on The Dana Carvey Show. But he is the voice of Ace on the Ambiguously Gay Duo. He definitely helped write a number of those cartoons.
DRE:
When are you going to have a movie of yours produced?
RS:
Im glad you brought that up because its perhaps the field Ive failed in the most. Leaving out my inability to produce successful movies would have really been a disservice to my legacy. Ive actually written or co-written six or seven screenplays over the years. Starting with a Hans and Franz movie which Arnold Schwarzenegger approached Dana Carvey about. He wanted to do a movie with Hans and Franz which I thought was a horrible idea but then I figured if you made it a musical you could kill a lot of time and get laughs. I also thought we could have parodied Arnolds career, when he was a megastar. That was probably the funniest screenplay Ive been a part of. It had a lot of crazy songs and fourth wall breaking. We were parodying the genre of bad comedies that were coming out at the time, kind of the Spies Like Us save the world kind of thing. It didnt take itself seriously at all and the studios hated it for that reason. Even Strange Brew had to have a serious bad guy in Max von Sydow. You had to stop the movie cold for a serious plot and we werent capable of that.
Ive written movies with Bob Odenkirk, Adam McKay and another one with McKay about an animal theme park. It had to do with carnies whose carnival is destroyed by a Disney-like corporation who is moving into New Hampshire with their own animal theme park. The carnies end up working at the Disney-like theme part. It had a lot of absurd overtrained animal themes.
Ive written movies with Bob Odenkirk, Adam McKay and another one with McKay about an animal theme park. It had to do with carnies whose carnival is destroyed by a Disney-like corporation who is moving into New Hampshire with their own animal theme park. The carnies end up working at the Disney-like theme part. It had a lot of absurd overtrained animal themes.
DRE:
It looks like McKays movie, Anchorman, is going to do really well. Will you do something with him as a result of that?
RS:
He doesnt need me because hes doing fine on his own. Hes writing with Will Ferrell who is probably one of the funniest people who has ever worked at SNL. Adam McKay is also an amazing writer. He was the dominant voice in the era he wrote in and as talented as anyone Ive worked with there. I think hes got another movie hes writing with Ferrell.
But Ive got some things going. Im not sure what they are but I have a few options. Someday I will figure out how to get a movie made or at least get past the first draft. Ive written a few with Adam Sandler too.
But Ive got some things going. Im not sure what they are but I have a few options. Someday I will figure out how to get a movie made or at least get past the first draft. Ive written a few with Adam Sandler too.
DRE:
Ive heard that hes a big star.
RS:
I know. He should be my Will Ferrell and yet I manage to screw it up each time.
DRE:
How so? Are you two still cool?
RS:
Yeah hes like one of my best friends. Different things have happened that screwed up the movies Ive written for him. One of the ones I wrote had him playing a nerdy character but after Little Nicky didnt work they were reluctant to have Adam play anybody who wasnt good looking. Another one [laughs] had him playing an Israeli counter terrorist.
DRE:
[laughs] That wont ever happen.
RS:
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