IPOD
RADIO
Rob Sonic
By Erin Broadley
Nov 9, 2007
For some, every waking day is one blue or red pill closer to living in a George Orwell-esque dystopic nightmare. For others, we're already there, as artists trying to create in a world that's erased the lines between fiction and nonfiction, and as Rob Sonic might say, a world where the future has become nothing but a drug we kick. It might sound a bit cryptic but such are the ideas that Definitive Jux emcee Rob Sonic explores on his latest album, Sabotage Gigante, with all with the fervor of an lucid-dreaming insomniac at an post-apocalyptic yard sale. But even at his most dizzying, there's a method to Sonic's madness -- a rhyme to his reason, so to speak -- and the Bronx based emcee hits home with a galvanized clarity lacking in other of today's smoke and mirror hip hop acts.
SuicideGirls caught up with Rob Sonic in Los Angeles, in a makeshift bunker beneath the Henry Fonda Theater, surrounded by cold cuts and warm beer, to talk about Sabotage Gigante, out now on Definitive Jux Records.
EB:
It’s been a pretty good year for Def Jux. The label has released some very strong records -- El-P's, Aesop's, your's ...
RS:
It has been [a good year]. It’s been pretty amazing to see the level and the quality of the work that’s been coming out.
EB:
You didn’t get stressed out or nervous at all, like, “Oh fuck man, my label mates are killing it."
RS:
I had heard [El-P and Aesop's records] already in stages. So I knew already. It’s one of those things, when you hear that stuff in those early stages and you know it’s going to be that powerful, you just say, “Okay, I’m not that good. So I’m going to go ahead and do to what I know how to do and stick to my guns because they’re already leaps and bounds ahead of me, so whatever.”
EB:
Oh, come on now. All I ever have read is great feedback on you albums.
RS:
Yeah, well I don’t have a problem taking criticism. Every once in a while I’ll be taken aback by the Internet but it’s just not the same thing as taking criticism to me. In a situation where a real critic is actually criticizing something, I mean, that’s different.
EB:
[Laughs] Your music is referenced as very specific to the New York experience. I have a quote here where you say New York is a "city of fast food and faster information."
RS:
Yeah. Well, I do hold [New York] very dear. I feel like there is a lot of inspiration, whether it be negative or whether it be positive. I think that has a lot to do with your environment. I think if I was anywhere as much as I am in New York, then obviously that would work itself into my writing. So, in terms of me actually approaching it from that standpoint, I don’t know if I did or not, consciously. I don’t know if I thought, “Okay, I’m going to write records that will reflect New York directly," but I certainly can see how it would be a big part of me because I do love the city so much. I guess everyone has their own unique [experience with the city], with these weird threads that tie them all together somehow. Like, there are places -- landmarks and things -- that maybe you couldn’t get a cab in front of but I got the best bagel in front of.
EB:
[Laughs] Right. Well, one thing about New York, perhaps more so than other cities, she is a city that really seems to leave a definitive mark on any and all artists who make camp there.
RS:
Absolutely. I wonder if it’s because of just the nature of the city, you know, it’s not really a big car culture. There aren’t too many bubble people -- people who go from house to garage to car to work, back to the car, to house. You’re forced to interact [in NY] with people just through your traveling methods.
EB:
Yeah. Well, according to Def Jux, Sabotage Gigante is "aimed at the over-commercialized, under scrutinized world of Disney brand Times Square. The record was made with the hope to speak to the prepared and disconnected." Could you explain some about who this prepared and disconnected audience is?
RS:
It’s actually pretty close to what I’ve said in the past. I mean, I just feel like that’s where we all are at this point. We are in this [state of] preparedness that we didn’t prepare ourselves for, you know, it’s like it’s been forced upon us. At the same time I think we’re all pretty much like, who gives a fuck?
EB:
We're like survivalist meets emotionally unavailable.
RS:
Right. You kind of have to, to live in this day and age. We have to have that arm’s length to everything approach, but at the same time you’ve got to pay attention. Whether it be just the way the political structure has changed, you know, with the Bush 2 and all that. [Laughs]
EB:
Dos.
RS:
[Laughs] Right, it’s so fucking creepy man. In your heart [you're] like, “Man I really hope everything is going to be all right for people.” But at this point, to where things have come and where they're going right now, it's like, "Fuck." It’s weird because of the way things happened with 9/11 and there being kind of a direct connection to why we’ve gone over to this war, which, if it’s even called it a war at this point, this hypothetical war on terror or whatever. But I don’t know if it’s getting the same kind of attention from people in the place of the artistic world, the people who could spark the voices. It does from the bigger Hollywood types but Vietnam sparked so much critique and outcry from music people but I don’t know if this is actually hitting people like that. I don’t know if people see it as severely as that but there are lots of people dying over there, you know.
EB:
Well, within music, there are certain acts that seem to enjoy making [albums] just so they can bitch and moan. Like, some people just can’t wait for something fucked up to happen so they can get up on their soapboxes and sell records.
RS:
Right, right, yeah. I hear that.
EB:
And especially for a lot of younger kids, it can be really confusing.
RS:
Yeah.
EB:
One thing Aesop and I talked about for None Shall Pass is that he really didn’t want to preach or talk at people. He wanted to have a conversation, like a dialogue, with his audience. That’s something I think you want as well.
RS:
Yeah, exactly.
EB:
You know, it should be conversation, a give and take, or else there’s no growth happening.
RS:
Oh yeah, definitely, I hear that. If there was definitely a route that I'd like to take [that would be it]. I mean, something’s missing. I feel like something is not being addressed about it. That just could be just maybe, when I was younger and there were songs that didn’t make me feel like people were preaching. They were still easy to listen to but about such serious subjects. I feel like it’s not happening on any scale outside of a small group of people that kind of stick to their guns and would do that regardless.
EB:
One thing that’s been said about your style is it’s very clear and confident without being simplistic.
RS:
I’m actually petrified [laughs].
EB:
[Laughs] Do you think there could be a danger in explaining too much with lyrics? Do you think there’s something to be said for choosing your words wisely, especially with hip-hop?
RS:
Yeah, with hip-hop, that’s kind of the double-edged sword, because coming up when I came up, it was all lyrics. You know what I mean? Like, as strange as it is, there wasn’t emphasis put on the production style or type of music. It was completely an aural thing. That is where I came up from but I know it certainly has evolved into something completely different now, so I do get worried about that. Like, “Oh, Jeez, am I writing something that I would have listened to at 15 [rather] than what most of the kids are listening to now?” It is a Catch-22 because I’m going to be a lyrical person and try to write as heavy as I can, but I wonder if that’s just for artists now ... I wonder if that’s just for other rappers. That sentiment is something I definitely wrestle with. I mean, I don’t even know if people want hip-hop to be something that comes from a place that isn’t, like, A-B-A-B-A-B. I don’t even know. I’m influenced by so much other shit -- like rock and even genres that didn't get so much exposure like electro back in the day. These were all songs that were all written from obviously not a hip-hop format. There’s bridges, there’s huge, dramatic parts ... With this record I went there, you know, it’s not all A-B-A-B. I’m never going to sell a million records, so fuck it. Who gives a fuck? As long as I am pushing myself creatively, which is mad-selfish to even say, but fuck it ... you kind of sacrifice everything. I don’t really care if anybody’s ready yet for what it is I'm doing ...
EB:
See I don’t believe in ever underestimating the intelligence or strength of your audience.
RS:
Yeah.
EB:
Don’t underestimate how ready they are. Set the bar high, make them jump. That’s the whole thing, like when we were younger and a band or an album forced us to grow to get up there to understand it.
RS:
Yeah, that’s true, that’s very true. I think maybe I even say that with this weird feeling that I feel stuff is so commercially copied at this point, you know what I mean. That shit scares you and it probably does me and that’s probably why I’m saying that. It’s just, you hear so much stuff that’s so similar on the radio. You hear nothing that’s from another voice. Not like the radio has ever played a huge part in anybody’s [laughs] rise to the top, so much outside of something that’s predestined, where people know someone's going to be huge from the time they walk in the door. But, you kind of just wish that there were maybe more alternative radio stations wanting stuff ... As an artist being in New York, it’s kind of bleak.
EB:
Another thing I read is that you had a bit of a tough childhood.
RS:
It was kind of nuts.
EB:
How much did that aspect of your upbringing shape the dialogue that you developed as a wordsmith with your audience?
RS:
Well, tons. That was my haven to get away from what might not have been going good in the world. I just retreated into the writing. Obviously that right there, I would never have picked up a pen. I was so young, I was like 11 or 12 when I started writing verse or prose. I don’t know if it was a result of me getting some sort of positive feedback or positive attention for my writing ...
EB:
Right. I’m interested in the sense, like, when a younger child is learning how to have conversations with other people based off ones they witness that are potentially violent or angry, how much that affects the conversations that they’re teaching themselves to have with other people? Especially with hip-hop and the back-and-forth banter that you have as you develop your emcee skills and stuff like that.
RS:
Yeah, I can totally see that. I never really thought about it like that but, yeah, I can totally see someone developing their whole personality out of that. When you’re in one of those situations, the acting out and [such] outside of the home structure when it’s not going well, is because you feel like you have no wins in a place where you’re supposed to feel like you’re a champion. Maybe out of some sort of need, some kind of dominance that I was succeeding at something. You know, “I’ll kick all the world’s ass with this rap!" And it’s funny because I don’t even think anything I wrote back then ever said anything more than that girl’s hot and I’m the best. [Laughs]
EB:
[Laughs] Well, that’s good; you weren’t bullying people with your early rhymes.
RS:
No, I was bullying people with my fists. Eventually that chilled out.
EB:
I have a quote here where you talk about the hip-hop underground. You talk about how, until the industry starts looking at the underground as a talent pool and not just a subgenre of real rap, until that happens you’re just kind of hitting your head against the wall. Can you elaborate on that a little?
RS:
Well, that’s the song remains the same, kinda. Everybody’s nobody unless they’re making a bunch of money. In the larger scheme of things, that’s what it’s about. It’s capitalism. [Laughs] There's no two ways about that. It’s weird because you know that actually forces people to become more creative in their approach. The fact that they struggle and can’t achieve it. But if the larger labels started looking at that, that might somehow affect that. I just feel like there are not a ton of outlets and I feel like there were more before.
EB:
How long was the writing process for you for this album? How long did it take you to put it together?
RS:
Well, probably about a year and a half total. I mean, but I think the majority of that -- and this is really weird because this has never happened -- but the majority and the songs that I liked the most were done probably over a three-month period at the very end of the record. Being a producer myself, now I kind of understand what I’m good at writing at. I understand the style of music really that will match me. Writing the music part takes a long time and I'll kind of write to it ... I’ll write down ideas, jot down things, and stay up all night thinking about songs but, yeah, it’s not really one continuous thing for me. The production side is, because I do that all myself. But trying to play guitar, which I suck at ...
EB:
[Laughs]
RS:
[Laughs] Trying to play the bass, which I suck at ...
EB:
The only instrument I've ever pulled off is drums.
RS:
Well, I mean, drums are like the most primal thing but I suck.
EB:
[Laughs] At least you can admit it.
RS:
I can play a cymbal.
EB:
You should try the tambourine.
RS:
Or the triangle.
Rob Sonic is on tour now with Aesop Rock. Go to www.definitivejux.net or www.myspace/robsonic1 for more information.
For some, every waking day is one blue or red pill closer to living in a George Orwell-esque dystopic nightmare. For others, we're already there, as artists trying to create in a world that's erased the lines between fiction and nonfiction, and as Rob Sonic might say, a world where the future has become nothing but a drug we kick. It might sound a bit cryptic but such are the ideas that Definitive Jux emcee Rob Sonic explores on his latest album, Sabotage Gigante, with all with the fervor of an lucid-dreaming insomniac at an post-apocalyptic yard sale. But even at his most dizzying, there's a method to Sonic's madness -- a rhyme to his reason, so to speak -- and the Bronx based emcee hits home with a galvanized clarity lacking in other of today's smoke and mirror hip hop acts.
SuicideGirls caught up with Rob Sonic in Los Angeles, in a makeshift bunker beneath the Henry Fonda Theater, surrounded by cold cuts and warm beer, to talk about Sabotage Gigante, out now on Definitive Jux Records.
EB:
It’s been a pretty good year for Def Jux. The label has released some very strong records -- El-P's, Aesop's, your's ...
RS:
It has been [a good year]. It’s been pretty amazing to see the level and the quality of the work that’s been coming out.
EB:
You didn’t get stressed out or nervous at all, like, “Oh fuck man, my label mates are killing it."
RS:
I had heard [El-P and Aesop's records] already in stages. So I knew already. It’s one of those things, when you hear that stuff in those early stages and you know it’s going to be that powerful, you just say, “Okay, I’m not that good. So I’m going to go ahead and do to what I know how to do and stick to my guns because they’re already leaps and bounds ahead of me, so whatever.”
EB:
Oh, come on now. All I ever have read is great feedback on you albums.
RS:
Yeah, well I don’t have a problem taking criticism. Every once in a while I’ll be taken aback by the Internet but it’s just not the same thing as taking criticism to me. In a situation where a real critic is actually criticizing something, I mean, that’s different.
EB:
[Laughs] Your music is referenced as very specific to the New York experience. I have a quote here where you say New York is a "city of fast food and faster information."
RS:
Yeah. Well, I do hold [New York] very dear. I feel like there is a lot of inspiration, whether it be negative or whether it be positive. I think that has a lot to do with your environment. I think if I was anywhere as much as I am in New York, then obviously that would work itself into my writing. So, in terms of me actually approaching it from that standpoint, I don’t know if I did or not, consciously. I don’t know if I thought, “Okay, I’m going to write records that will reflect New York directly," but I certainly can see how it would be a big part of me because I do love the city so much. I guess everyone has their own unique [experience with the city], with these weird threads that tie them all together somehow. Like, there are places -- landmarks and things -- that maybe you couldn’t get a cab in front of but I got the best bagel in front of.
EB:
[Laughs] Right. Well, one thing about New York, perhaps more so than other cities, she is a city that really seems to leave a definitive mark on any and all artists who make camp there.
RS:
Absolutely. I wonder if it’s because of just the nature of the city, you know, it’s not really a big car culture. There aren’t too many bubble people -- people who go from house to garage to car to work, back to the car, to house. You’re forced to interact [in NY] with people just through your traveling methods.
EB:
Yeah. Well, according to Def Jux, Sabotage Gigante is "aimed at the over-commercialized, under scrutinized world of Disney brand Times Square. The record was made with the hope to speak to the prepared and disconnected." Could you explain some about who this prepared and disconnected audience is?
RS:
It’s actually pretty close to what I’ve said in the past. I mean, I just feel like that’s where we all are at this point. We are in this [state of] preparedness that we didn’t prepare ourselves for, you know, it’s like it’s been forced upon us. At the same time I think we’re all pretty much like, who gives a fuck?
EB:
We're like survivalist meets emotionally unavailable.
RS:
Right. You kind of have to, to live in this day and age. We have to have that arm’s length to everything approach, but at the same time you’ve got to pay attention. Whether it be just the way the political structure has changed, you know, with the Bush 2 and all that. [Laughs]
EB:
Dos.
RS:
[Laughs] Right, it’s so fucking creepy man. In your heart [you're] like, “Man I really hope everything is going to be all right for people.” But at this point, to where things have come and where they're going right now, it's like, "Fuck." It’s weird because of the way things happened with 9/11 and there being kind of a direct connection to why we’ve gone over to this war, which, if it’s even called it a war at this point, this hypothetical war on terror or whatever. But I don’t know if it’s getting the same kind of attention from people in the place of the artistic world, the people who could spark the voices. It does from the bigger Hollywood types but Vietnam sparked so much critique and outcry from music people but I don’t know if this is actually hitting people like that. I don’t know if people see it as severely as that but there are lots of people dying over there, you know.
EB:
Well, within music, there are certain acts that seem to enjoy making [albums] just so they can bitch and moan. Like, some people just can’t wait for something fucked up to happen so they can get up on their soapboxes and sell records.
RS:
Right, right, yeah. I hear that.
EB:
And especially for a lot of younger kids, it can be really confusing.
RS:
Yeah.
EB:
One thing Aesop and I talked about for None Shall Pass is that he really didn’t want to preach or talk at people. He wanted to have a conversation, like a dialogue, with his audience. That’s something I think you want as well.
RS:
Yeah, exactly.
EB:
You know, it should be conversation, a give and take, or else there’s no growth happening.
RS:
Oh yeah, definitely, I hear that. If there was definitely a route that I'd like to take [that would be it]. I mean, something’s missing. I feel like something is not being addressed about it. That just could be just maybe, when I was younger and there were songs that didn’t make me feel like people were preaching. They were still easy to listen to but about such serious subjects. I feel like it’s not happening on any scale outside of a small group of people that kind of stick to their guns and would do that regardless.
EB:
One thing that’s been said about your style is it’s very clear and confident without being simplistic.
RS:
I’m actually petrified [laughs].
EB:
[Laughs] Do you think there could be a danger in explaining too much with lyrics? Do you think there’s something to be said for choosing your words wisely, especially with hip-hop?
RS:
Yeah, with hip-hop, that’s kind of the double-edged sword, because coming up when I came up, it was all lyrics. You know what I mean? Like, as strange as it is, there wasn’t emphasis put on the production style or type of music. It was completely an aural thing. That is where I came up from but I know it certainly has evolved into something completely different now, so I do get worried about that. Like, “Oh, Jeez, am I writing something that I would have listened to at 15 [rather] than what most of the kids are listening to now?” It is a Catch-22 because I’m going to be a lyrical person and try to write as heavy as I can, but I wonder if that’s just for artists now ... I wonder if that’s just for other rappers. That sentiment is something I definitely wrestle with. I mean, I don’t even know if people want hip-hop to be something that comes from a place that isn’t, like, A-B-A-B-A-B. I don’t even know. I’m influenced by so much other shit -- like rock and even genres that didn't get so much exposure like electro back in the day. These were all songs that were all written from obviously not a hip-hop format. There’s bridges, there’s huge, dramatic parts ... With this record I went there, you know, it’s not all A-B-A-B. I’m never going to sell a million records, so fuck it. Who gives a fuck? As long as I am pushing myself creatively, which is mad-selfish to even say, but fuck it ... you kind of sacrifice everything. I don’t really care if anybody’s ready yet for what it is I'm doing ...
EB:
See I don’t believe in ever underestimating the intelligence or strength of your audience.
RS:
Yeah.
EB:
Don’t underestimate how ready they are. Set the bar high, make them jump. That’s the whole thing, like when we were younger and a band or an album forced us to grow to get up there to understand it.
RS:
Yeah, that’s true, that’s very true. I think maybe I even say that with this weird feeling that I feel stuff is so commercially copied at this point, you know what I mean. That shit scares you and it probably does me and that’s probably why I’m saying that. It’s just, you hear so much stuff that’s so similar on the radio. You hear nothing that’s from another voice. Not like the radio has ever played a huge part in anybody’s [laughs] rise to the top, so much outside of something that’s predestined, where people know someone's going to be huge from the time they walk in the door. But, you kind of just wish that there were maybe more alternative radio stations wanting stuff ... As an artist being in New York, it’s kind of bleak.
EB:
Another thing I read is that you had a bit of a tough childhood.
RS:
It was kind of nuts.
EB:
How much did that aspect of your upbringing shape the dialogue that you developed as a wordsmith with your audience?
RS:
Well, tons. That was my haven to get away from what might not have been going good in the world. I just retreated into the writing. Obviously that right there, I would never have picked up a pen. I was so young, I was like 11 or 12 when I started writing verse or prose. I don’t know if it was a result of me getting some sort of positive feedback or positive attention for my writing ...
EB:
Right. I’m interested in the sense, like, when a younger child is learning how to have conversations with other people based off ones they witness that are potentially violent or angry, how much that affects the conversations that they’re teaching themselves to have with other people? Especially with hip-hop and the back-and-forth banter that you have as you develop your emcee skills and stuff like that.
RS:
Yeah, I can totally see that. I never really thought about it like that but, yeah, I can totally see someone developing their whole personality out of that. When you’re in one of those situations, the acting out and [such] outside of the home structure when it’s not going well, is because you feel like you have no wins in a place where you’re supposed to feel like you’re a champion. Maybe out of some sort of need, some kind of dominance that I was succeeding at something. You know, “I’ll kick all the world’s ass with this rap!" And it’s funny because I don’t even think anything I wrote back then ever said anything more than that girl’s hot and I’m the best. [Laughs]
EB:
[Laughs] Well, that’s good; you weren’t bullying people with your early rhymes.
RS:
No, I was bullying people with my fists. Eventually that chilled out.
EB:
I have a quote here where you talk about the hip-hop underground. You talk about how, until the industry starts looking at the underground as a talent pool and not just a subgenre of real rap, until that happens you’re just kind of hitting your head against the wall. Can you elaborate on that a little?
RS:
Well, that’s the song remains the same, kinda. Everybody’s nobody unless they’re making a bunch of money. In the larger scheme of things, that’s what it’s about. It’s capitalism. [Laughs] There's no two ways about that. It’s weird because you know that actually forces people to become more creative in their approach. The fact that they struggle and can’t achieve it. But if the larger labels started looking at that, that might somehow affect that. I just feel like there are not a ton of outlets and I feel like there were more before.
EB:
How long was the writing process for you for this album? How long did it take you to put it together?
RS:
Well, probably about a year and a half total. I mean, but I think the majority of that -- and this is really weird because this has never happened -- but the majority and the songs that I liked the most were done probably over a three-month period at the very end of the record. Being a producer myself, now I kind of understand what I’m good at writing at. I understand the style of music really that will match me. Writing the music part takes a long time and I'll kind of write to it ... I’ll write down ideas, jot down things, and stay up all night thinking about songs but, yeah, it’s not really one continuous thing for me. The production side is, because I do that all myself. But trying to play guitar, which I suck at ...
EB:
[Laughs]
RS:
[Laughs] Trying to play the bass, which I suck at ...
EB:
The only instrument I've ever pulled off is drums.
RS:
Well, I mean, drums are like the most primal thing but I suck.
EB:
[Laughs] At least you can admit it.
RS:
I can play a cymbal.
EB:
You should try the tambourine.
RS:
Or the triangle.
Rob Sonic is on tour now with Aesop Rock. Go to www.definitivejux.net or www.myspace/robsonic1 for more information.
Rob Sonic is on tour now with Aesop Rock. Go to www.definitivejux.net or www.myspace/robsonic1 for more information.
