Richard Kern first rose to fame with a series of films starring Nick Zedd, Lydia Lunch, David Wojnarowitcz and many more. This films were seminal [no pun intended] to the underground film movement in New York City and have become quite iconic. Since he cleaned up his life in the late 80s Kern has been a major photographer that has contributed to a number of pornography magazines and his work has also been featured in many respectable magazines as well.
Recently he has turned his all seeing eye to SuicideGirls when he shot a set with Lily.
Check out Richard Kerns personal website
Daniel Robert Epstein: How did you get involved with SuicideGirls in the first place?
Richard Kern: The first time I heard of it was when a model from there contacted me to see if I wanted to do a shoot. I cant remember what happened with that but we didnt end up doing it. Then I became aware of the site as the traffic for it became higher. The most recent contact was this girl Lily. She wanted me to shoot her for the site and she actually showed up. There a lot of people who contact me to do a shoot for a website then you never hear from them.
DRE: Thats kind of bizarre.
RK: Not for models. SuicideGirls is a mystery to me because I thought only women ran the site.
DRE: Does that make a difference?
RK: I had heard from various models from there that my type was not liked there because I was a guy exploiting women and SuicideGirls is a feminist site. No matter what anyone says its still naked girls and still guys checking them out. There are girls checking in also but a lot of guys too. Its the same thing no matter how you cut it.
Lily told me that she caught a lot of shit from other models on the site for shooting with me because I shoot for Barely Legal and things like that. I wanted to shoot Lily for Barely Legal then she asked me to do SuicideGirls and I wondered what I got out of it. So she offered to model for me for free. I paid her for the sex mag then she modeled for me for my personal work in exchange for me doing SuicideGirls. We did a shoot with a squatter dude or whatever they call them now.
DRE: They used to be called bums.
RK: They used to call them that now they call them crusties because it was all these straight kids who never bathed. Now there are a bunch of them who live down by the river. Ive got this voyeur series where it seems as if I am spying on people. I shot them through the bushes making out.
DRE: Looking through the portfolio on your website the magazine photos are much different from your personal work. How do you separate them?
RK: I will go out and shoot for myself with no other intention than to do a book at some point. I got to make a living too. If I shoot a girl thats cute enough for a magazine then well do it, well both make money then Ill get to do my own stuff with the money. Sometimes I do take shots out of the sex mag shoots for my own stuff because sometimes there are some good ones. On my site there is shot of a girl with a bloody nose. Shes a friend of mine whos Scottish and she wanted to make some money. I shot her twice in one day for sex mags then at the very end I wanted to shoot something for me. A couple of weeks ago I had bumped into another girl with a bloody nose and I wanted to do something like that. We poured some blood on her and its great.
DRE: Does it bother you that you have to do stuff for real porn mags?
RK: No. But say I was on the cover of Artforum and my photos were selling for lots of money. If I could be doing that I wouldnt be working for porn mags. But I got to make a living. I shoot for them only occasionally now because that business isnt what it used to be.
DRE: Whats wrong with it?
RK: A lot of the point mags are going out of business. They dropped the pay tremendously and its all because of the internet. I used to go out once a month to LA and shoot for one week. Id make a ton of money then come back to New York and do whatever I wanted.
DRE: Recently the kind of stuff you used to do has gone mainstream.
RK: Yes definitely.
DRE: Does that surprise you or did you see that coming?
RK: No Ive got tunnelvision [laughs]. Lily is a cool girl. She was driving around in a van homeless and every time I hear from her shes just got out of jail. All of the SuicideGirl types Ive talked to are punk rock. Back when I was punk rock, girls did not do this kind of stuff. Getting naked was so anti-punk rock. All that stuff has really opened up. Girls are way more open to it now. The whole thing about punk was making yourself ugly. Maybe Im generalizing too much but I find that, especially in New York, girls are a lot more willing to take their clothes off now more than they were ten years ago.
I talk to people who have been in the business for a long time like Dian Hanson who was the editor of Leg Show and now shes an editor at Taschen Books. She was heavily in the 70s scene at Platos Retreat and she says that you couldnt find girls who would take off their clothes and get in front of a movie camera very easily. There would be one or two superstars because they were good looking. The only people you could get were hippie people who were on drugs and shit. Some of the best old porn Ive seen was one where the girl was smacked out of her head that she could hardly sit up and its a sex movie. What the fuck was going on there?
DRE: My accountant said something very accountantly when he saw that I worked for them. He didnt know what it was but he said it sounded like diminishing returns.
RK: One thing I do like about SuicideGirls is that it doesnt cost very much to join. The fact that it can cost only $4 a month is very democratic.
DRE: So when you are called in to shoot Jena Malone for Index Magazine, what do you think they are looking for?
RK: They call me because they know I can shoot young girls without attacking them. People have this impression before they meet me then when they do they go Youre not a sleazebag at all.
DRE: Would you agree?
RK: I guess so. Im a sleazebag in my head. I know that. But I dont mess with the girls or anything. Ive shot tons of celebrity stuff like that for film magazines. They knew they would get something punk rock looking if I did it.
DRE: Did you get her to cut her hair into the Mohawk?
RK: No I showed up and she had cut her hair like that. She says she was cutting it because she was sick of the long beautiful hair and getting all the nice girl roles. She wants to go to school for photography and she wanted to make sure she wouldnt get any movie roles for a while.
DRE: How do you think your work has changed since the height of your public popularity?
RK: I think Im a better photographer who can work a lot faster. I softened up things a bit. I dont need to go for the shock as much. I can do more subtle stuff.
DRE: Did that happen naturally or did you want to go in that direction?
RK: I dont know what happened. Im always pursuing a thread with my own work. A lot of times Im just looking for an excuse to have people be naked, justified nudity.
DRE: Have the models changed much?
RK: Like I said theyve definitely opened up. There isnt as much of a stigmatism attached to it although there is still a stigmata to it.
DRE: How about how they look?
RK: There are tons more punk rock girls. Now its funny because I try to shoot girls that look straighter now.
DRE: Are they tough to find?
RK: Ive been trying to find more natural looking girls and no mater what punk rock girls is still an affected look. I dont like girls that wear makeup, I dont like big fake boobs, I dont mind tattoos but Im also way old now. When I was young my dream was to have the punk rock girlfriend but there was also a thing back then about, why do punk rock guys want New Wave girls. The punk rock girls were way aggressive and dressed a certain way but all the New Wave girls were sweet and girlish.
DRE: When was the last time you did a movie?
RK: Not in ages except videotaping girls naked wiggling around. I shoot a lot of that.
DRE: Do you like video?
RK: Digital photography and video are excellent because you dont need to do any gigantic setup. Its immediate. Lilys shoot took 15 minutes. It doesnt matter if you screw up because you just keep going. Film stock is a big hassle. I have a book coming out in the fall that is all film though.
DRE: You did a lot of drugs back in the day. When did you quit?
RK: I quit everything in 1988.
DRE: What made you do that?
RK: Losing everything I had and living on someones floor.
DRE: That was heroin?
RK: Yeah, when it gets to the point where no one would talk to you and youre not thinking about getting money to eat but get money for drugs its time to stop. It was at the end of making the films I made and it was time for me to move up to bigger movies but instead I moved into that self sabotaging thing where I went way off the deep end with drugs. I went from making the movies to a job as a dishwasher. I had to start all over again when I was 34 which really sucked.
DRE: Did you ever get married?
RK: No but I have a four year old kid. I have him for three days a week then hes with his mom the rest of the time. We only live a few blocks from each other.
DRE: How has the kid changed things for you?
RK: It changed my whole outlook on everything. All of sudden there is somebody more important than me. I have half the time I used to have but hes really fun. Also someone loves me for a change.
DRE: Do you still see Lydia Lunch?
RK: Yeah I just saw her the other day. I still send her royalty checks.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Recently he has turned his all seeing eye to SuicideGirls when he shot a set with Lily.
Check out Richard Kerns personal website
Daniel Robert Epstein: How did you get involved with SuicideGirls in the first place?
Richard Kern: The first time I heard of it was when a model from there contacted me to see if I wanted to do a shoot. I cant remember what happened with that but we didnt end up doing it. Then I became aware of the site as the traffic for it became higher. The most recent contact was this girl Lily. She wanted me to shoot her for the site and she actually showed up. There a lot of people who contact me to do a shoot for a website then you never hear from them.
DRE: Thats kind of bizarre.
RK: Not for models. SuicideGirls is a mystery to me because I thought only women ran the site.
DRE: Does that make a difference?
RK: I had heard from various models from there that my type was not liked there because I was a guy exploiting women and SuicideGirls is a feminist site. No matter what anyone says its still naked girls and still guys checking them out. There are girls checking in also but a lot of guys too. Its the same thing no matter how you cut it.
Lily told me that she caught a lot of shit from other models on the site for shooting with me because I shoot for Barely Legal and things like that. I wanted to shoot Lily for Barely Legal then she asked me to do SuicideGirls and I wondered what I got out of it. So she offered to model for me for free. I paid her for the sex mag then she modeled for me for my personal work in exchange for me doing SuicideGirls. We did a shoot with a squatter dude or whatever they call them now.
DRE: They used to be called bums.
RK: They used to call them that now they call them crusties because it was all these straight kids who never bathed. Now there are a bunch of them who live down by the river. Ive got this voyeur series where it seems as if I am spying on people. I shot them through the bushes making out.
DRE: Looking through the portfolio on your website the magazine photos are much different from your personal work. How do you separate them?
RK: I will go out and shoot for myself with no other intention than to do a book at some point. I got to make a living too. If I shoot a girl thats cute enough for a magazine then well do it, well both make money then Ill get to do my own stuff with the money. Sometimes I do take shots out of the sex mag shoots for my own stuff because sometimes there are some good ones. On my site there is shot of a girl with a bloody nose. Shes a friend of mine whos Scottish and she wanted to make some money. I shot her twice in one day for sex mags then at the very end I wanted to shoot something for me. A couple of weeks ago I had bumped into another girl with a bloody nose and I wanted to do something like that. We poured some blood on her and its great.
DRE: Does it bother you that you have to do stuff for real porn mags?
RK: No. But say I was on the cover of Artforum and my photos were selling for lots of money. If I could be doing that I wouldnt be working for porn mags. But I got to make a living. I shoot for them only occasionally now because that business isnt what it used to be.
DRE: Whats wrong with it?
RK: A lot of the point mags are going out of business. They dropped the pay tremendously and its all because of the internet. I used to go out once a month to LA and shoot for one week. Id make a ton of money then come back to New York and do whatever I wanted.
DRE: Recently the kind of stuff you used to do has gone mainstream.
RK: Yes definitely.
DRE: Does that surprise you or did you see that coming?
RK: No Ive got tunnelvision [laughs]. Lily is a cool girl. She was driving around in a van homeless and every time I hear from her shes just got out of jail. All of the SuicideGirl types Ive talked to are punk rock. Back when I was punk rock, girls did not do this kind of stuff. Getting naked was so anti-punk rock. All that stuff has really opened up. Girls are way more open to it now. The whole thing about punk was making yourself ugly. Maybe Im generalizing too much but I find that, especially in New York, girls are a lot more willing to take their clothes off now more than they were ten years ago.
I talk to people who have been in the business for a long time like Dian Hanson who was the editor of Leg Show and now shes an editor at Taschen Books. She was heavily in the 70s scene at Platos Retreat and she says that you couldnt find girls who would take off their clothes and get in front of a movie camera very easily. There would be one or two superstars because they were good looking. The only people you could get were hippie people who were on drugs and shit. Some of the best old porn Ive seen was one where the girl was smacked out of her head that she could hardly sit up and its a sex movie. What the fuck was going on there?
DRE: My accountant said something very accountantly when he saw that I worked for them. He didnt know what it was but he said it sounded like diminishing returns.
RK: One thing I do like about SuicideGirls is that it doesnt cost very much to join. The fact that it can cost only $4 a month is very democratic.
DRE: So when you are called in to shoot Jena Malone for Index Magazine, what do you think they are looking for?
RK: They call me because they know I can shoot young girls without attacking them. People have this impression before they meet me then when they do they go Youre not a sleazebag at all.
DRE: Would you agree?
RK: I guess so. Im a sleazebag in my head. I know that. But I dont mess with the girls or anything. Ive shot tons of celebrity stuff like that for film magazines. They knew they would get something punk rock looking if I did it.
DRE: Did you get her to cut her hair into the Mohawk?
RK: No I showed up and she had cut her hair like that. She says she was cutting it because she was sick of the long beautiful hair and getting all the nice girl roles. She wants to go to school for photography and she wanted to make sure she wouldnt get any movie roles for a while.
DRE: How do you think your work has changed since the height of your public popularity?
RK: I think Im a better photographer who can work a lot faster. I softened up things a bit. I dont need to go for the shock as much. I can do more subtle stuff.
DRE: Did that happen naturally or did you want to go in that direction?
RK: I dont know what happened. Im always pursuing a thread with my own work. A lot of times Im just looking for an excuse to have people be naked, justified nudity.
DRE: Have the models changed much?
RK: Like I said theyve definitely opened up. There isnt as much of a stigmatism attached to it although there is still a stigmata to it.
DRE: How about how they look?
RK: There are tons more punk rock girls. Now its funny because I try to shoot girls that look straighter now.
DRE: Are they tough to find?
RK: Ive been trying to find more natural looking girls and no mater what punk rock girls is still an affected look. I dont like girls that wear makeup, I dont like big fake boobs, I dont mind tattoos but Im also way old now. When I was young my dream was to have the punk rock girlfriend but there was also a thing back then about, why do punk rock guys want New Wave girls. The punk rock girls were way aggressive and dressed a certain way but all the New Wave girls were sweet and girlish.
DRE: When was the last time you did a movie?
RK: Not in ages except videotaping girls naked wiggling around. I shoot a lot of that.
DRE: Do you like video?
RK: Digital photography and video are excellent because you dont need to do any gigantic setup. Its immediate. Lilys shoot took 15 minutes. It doesnt matter if you screw up because you just keep going. Film stock is a big hassle. I have a book coming out in the fall that is all film though.
DRE: You did a lot of drugs back in the day. When did you quit?
RK: I quit everything in 1988.
DRE: What made you do that?
RK: Losing everything I had and living on someones floor.
DRE: That was heroin?
RK: Yeah, when it gets to the point where no one would talk to you and youre not thinking about getting money to eat but get money for drugs its time to stop. It was at the end of making the films I made and it was time for me to move up to bigger movies but instead I moved into that self sabotaging thing where I went way off the deep end with drugs. I went from making the movies to a job as a dishwasher. I had to start all over again when I was 34 which really sucked.
DRE: Did you ever get married?
RK: No but I have a four year old kid. I have him for three days a week then hes with his mom the rest of the time. We only live a few blocks from each other.
DRE: How has the kid changed things for you?
RK: It changed my whole outlook on everything. All of sudden there is somebody more important than me. I have half the time I used to have but hes really fun. Also someone loves me for a change.
DRE: Do you still see Lydia Lunch?
RK: Yeah I just saw her the other day. I still send her royalty checks.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 14 of 14 COMMENTS
fatality:
I love Richard Kern
fitzsimmons:
Cool interview.