erin_broadley

Ghost towns have a bad reputation: Shop doors creak, saloons swirl with phantoms of unloved prostitutes, rotting jail cells are haunted by remorseless outlaws, and the dusty streets are patrolled by spirits of hardened deputies.

For some, ghost towns are merely creepy roadside attractions; for others they are American landmarks brimming with history's shadows and latent inspiration. The abandoned mining settlement of Jerome, Arizona is one of the oldest and largest American ghost towns. Until recently, its roads lay ruined and its doors were boarded up. It quietly waited for some headstrong thrill-seeker to dust it off and polish its potential. Now a vibrant artist community, Jerome is the place that Maynard James Keenan calls home.

In 1995, after having his fill of the endless white noise and wayward temperament of Los Angeles, the enigmatic Tool frontman bid the city adieu, packed his bags, followed his intuition and headed for the desert. After settling in Jerome, Keenan soon began his adventure into the art of winemaking. Today he is the proud owner of Merkin Vineyards and Caduceus Cellars, which he runs with partner Eric Glomski in Cornville, Arizona. To our delight, Keenan invited both Avalon Suicide and myself over for a tour of the grounds, a lengthy chat, and rare glimpse into his world.

As we meandered through the rows of grapevines, I asked Keenan why he chose to leave Los Angeles for Arizona. He waved his arm at our surroundings and matter-of-factly replied, "Just look at this place!"

For an afternoon, armed with a video camera, we walked the vineyard as Keenan spoke in detail about his craft both as a musician and a winemaker and also about his latest project, Puscifer, a multifaceted, multimedia, multi-artist, multi-personality project that takes shape in myriad ways like film, music, digital video, clothes, feminine hygiene products, pet supplies, and more.

The debut album from Puscifer, titled "V is for Vagina," is in stores now. And yes, Keenan's wine is fucking delicious.


SuicideGirls: So how did your adventure into winemaking begin?

Maynard James Keenan: Were located in northern Arizona and there have been several wineries here in the past. But when I say the past I mean like 60 or 50 years ago. Because of the mining community up here, there was a demand for wine so Italian wine makers made their own wine [though] there was no infrastructure for an industry. Now, as time has gone on, people have realized that the country up here is suited for grapes so there are wineries and vineyards popping up everywhere. I'm one of those people who realize the potential.

SG: Winemaking runs in your family, doesnt it? Was that something you knew about before you began the vineyard?

MJK: No, I discovered that after I had already planted vines. It was kind like finding your way back to the family theres a classic love story of winemaking in my blood.

SG: Youve said before that winemaking is a process like writing a song and starting with an original idea, you hear it evolve over time. Is winemaking a refuge for you away from the music world or do they parallel each other?

MJK: Creative processes in general come in many forms. This is just one of those many forms. It's parallel in a way. Theres no real separation. Its the same process; starting from scratch. The difference with winemaking, in general, is that the ideas dont necessarily come from you they come from [the land]. Thats one of the largest challenges we have here in Arizona is to try and get out of the way and allow this area of Arizona to express itself and just be the catalyst [for the wine] and get it in the bottle. We dont know what this area is actually going to taste like until we make a few decades worth of wine here and it will really start to become clear. We have an idea of what we would like to make and we have an idea what this area [might produce] in terms of other parts of the world, but no real solid idea of what its going to taste like.

SG: What is your favorite type of wine?

MJK: Mediterranean Italian varietals Southern Rome I like some of the winemakers using Bordeaux style grapes to make Northern Italian wines.

SG: Lets talk some more about your winemaking roots and the differences between old world and new world wine. How do you feel about old versus new world?

MJK: Sure. Its like anything else. Itd be like sticking to your guns on vinyl. Yeah, vinyl sounds better in many ways but there are some limitations to it. And there has been some amazing music thats only been made available on CD. Embracing new technology and combining it with old technology is always important about living in the moment and embracing your particular time. But there are some beautiful things about the old school wine making processes just like the old school music making processes of analog tape and vinyl and turntables. Theres a way to have both, and what it really comes down to is that human interaction and making sure that youre telling good stories. [With] the evolution of winemaking, there are certain things that we wouldnt have been able to correct in the past. If something went wrong with one of the batches and there was a problem, well, thats what the wine is going to taste like that year. Now we have ways we can get it back on track and correct those problems. [Now] I think larger wineries that are doing insane numbers of amounts of wine each year -- although its great wine -- some of them lost touch with that human interaction that really makes a great wine. They might get lucky now and then with an incredible year and an incredible press that they stumble on, but overall it really is about that human interaction, paying attention, being conscious with the process and being present throughout the whole [wine making process].

SG: Is it similar as with a musician and the importance of a live interaction with your audience?

MJK: I've never really had an interaction with my audience, so I dont know. Ive always maintained my interaction with my band mates and maintained my interaction with the process of making music. If I listen to what the audience has to say about the making of the music then I would have [made] a lot more different decisions based on what they had to say. Its the same with winemaking; you have to focus on what resonates properly with you and pay attention to the landscape and see what it has to offer and express that as best you can, rather than taking suggestions from a grocery store chain with what they would like to taste.

SG: So how did you get your vineyard up and running and what sets it apart? Also, where did your interest in alchemy begin and what was the transition like into winemaking?

MJK: Initially, I planted some vines and looked around [locally] for someone that was [already] doing it so I could get information and at least not end up going down the wrong path and costing myself a lot of time. Especially with the winemaking, you plant the vine and you wont know whats happening with it the first four or five years. Its an investment in time. You have to have a lot of patience and learn that pretty quickly.

As far as the transition from making music to wine, there are of course a lot of differences. Theres as much chaos in planting vines and harvesting grapes as in any other art form. I think there is a calmness that comes with it and theres a rhythm that is absent from most of the entertainment industry. There are a lot of sycophants in [entertainment]. I dont think you have quite as many here and generally speaking, youre dealing with adults that are fairly rational.

Every industry and every profession has its share of irrational people but I think the music and film industries have a large portion of those people running the whole show. This is a little easier transition as far as making rational plans and just dealing with adults. [Laughs]

SG: How did you hook up with your partner Eric Glomski?

MJK: As I mentioned earlier, I needed some direction and theres a gentleman who had already started a vineyard several years before and he had been working with Eric Glomski who is from the area but who is a winemaker who actually worked at vineyards in California for a while and has a wealth of knowledge. He comes from a family of overachievers. He and his brother both are chemistry whiz kids. Theres a whole background of chemistry involved in winemaking and theres a reason that winemaking, vineyards and wine show up so much in mythologies. It has to do with longevity and just a healthy environment.

Vineyards in general, if theyre successful in an area, create an entire little industry that ends up fostering a community like no other industry I've come across. It just crosses the whole gamut of humans. If youre really good at chemistry and youre also a hands on kind of person and you like to get your hands dirty, youre the perfect candidate to be a winemaker because it requires all of those things. To be a completely well rounded wine maker you have to understand whats happening on the vineyard. A lot of winemakers in California have never been on their vineyards. Of course, the best winemakers have. They understand that goes hand-in-hand. Theres an old saying that, Wine is made on the vineyard and not in the winery. Theres some truth to that. Certainly watching Eric navigate in the winery and watching him spin six plates on several fingers and juggle and nothing ends up dropping its quite a sight to behold. He definitely can save a wine thats headed for disaster. Thats the true sign of a great winemaker. Anybody can make a great wine out of great grapes and a great year. Its a truly gifted winemaker that can make wine on a bad year with a bad batch of grapes. Hes that guy.

SG: So with Puscifer, the first video for the album V is for Vagina is called Queen B and features a crazy chess game played between two beautiful women, sipping wine in one of your cellars. Lets talk some about that video and the way Puscifer is about more than just a band and rather a combination of sensory elements that come together as a truly unique experience.

MJK: Thats a lot to bite off.

SG: [Laughs]

MJK: It seems in general theres a lot of falling apart of what we used to think of as given. Weve come to expect a certain way of life and expect a certain amount of infrastructure in place in our country and our world. I think a lot of that is falling apart [with the] changes going on. Part of that change is people really having to become conscious of the things that they took for granted and stepping up on the most basic level. People need to start getting involved in other aspects of [life] that theyve just come to accept as somebody else takes care of. Puscifer is that process for me. The record industries are folding. They can no longer rely on these big fat checks, big budgets, advances and huge record sales. Nowadays, you really have to be your own manager and your own marketing team, as well as be creative. Of course I'm speaking just in general terms of music, but there are always also life situations where you have to step up and really learn how to survive on your own.

In small communities, like I was speaking about before, small wine communities, all of a sudden people can now do focused things and actually survive doing it. With music, now its the digital age and with the way things are going, people dont necessarily have to take on the world. They dont have to break out and be successful globally; they can sell a few albums off of their website or iTunes or do a limited run of vinyl and actually survive comfortably without having all the middle men involved trying to take it to some other level where all of a sudden budgets go up, everybody else has their hand out, and all of a sudden you have to sell a million records just to make a buck. Thats just crazy volume; warehouses full of crap no one wants. It doesnt seem very sustainable. Being involved in the winery and being involved in Puscifer, to me, is about collaborations. Its about smaller amounts of collaborations so you dont have to spend three million dollars on a record, a video, and get advances for touring. Theres got to be a better way, and Im going to make a lot of mistakes trying to figure out what that is but hopefully my mistakes will lead to somebody elses successes.

SG: Do you feel like you have more creative control with Puscifer as a project?

MJK: As a project I have more control over it but, on the whole, I have no control over where its going to go. I have no idea whats going to happen in the next couple years. And thats a pretty good place to be as a creative person. That chaotic state is really fresh and creative. The way things happen on accident and happen naturally -- you really have to trust your intuition to make those things work. And really interesting things come out of it. To try and force it and say, This is where its going to go that ends up being stiff; that ends up the Backstreet Boys path.

SG: The character and image of the Queen B has become synonymous with Puscifer as a whole. How did the concept originate?

MJK: It initially started because of a digital animation 3D artist that I met through Adam [Jones] named Meats Meier. He did a bunch of the live footage that we used for the Tool tour. Hes an amazing artist; he totally understands the new world of whats going on, that you dont need super huge budgets to do things. Hes got his own little studio, hes very creative, and all he needed was a symbol idea to add a visual aspect and a visual element to the music. So I came up with the idea of the chess game in the wine cellar and he went with it. He took a few months to make it on his own with the concepts and I think it came out really well, especially considering what that video would have cost someone five or six years ago when the industry thought that it could just throw money at everything. I didnt spend a hell of a lot of money comparatively on that video. Hes happy because hes got a small studio and his rent is paid. Im happy because I got a cute little video to play on YouTube. It plays into what I spoke about earlier about being able to afford to create stuff without having to have huge budgets to do it.

SG: What were some of your expectations with the album release?

MJK: I dont expect it to do really well. Ive kind of shot myself in the foot with my tongue in check, dry humor. Calling it V is For Vagina I thought for sure [laughs] people were gonna just laugh. Ive said before, its kind of like when your uncle says pull my finger [laughs]. Its not really like that but

SG: Well, you did name your vineyard Merkin Vineyard. I mean, come on!

MJK: [Laughs] I know. I thought people would just giggle and think [it was] bad sophomoric humor. But its been met with crazy resistance and censorship every step of the way for the most ridiculous things. Like, somebody recently asked me for the video if I could blur out the nipples on the Queen B. And Im like [laughs], Its a three-inch tall, cartoon alien! What nipples? [Laughs] It doesnt make any sense! Are you kidding me? Its a cartoon; it doesnt have nipples, first of all. And its just nipples! Whatever.

SG: We dont have a problem with nipples.

MJK: Yeah. But people are really wound up about it. They want to blur out the name. Its like, theres a dog in the video too and when the dog leaves do you need me to blur out his butt hole? Do you have a problem with his testicles? No? Okay, well then the nipples stay.

SG: What does the character signify?

MJK: Comedy, tragedy -- all those elements. The most important word to remember in this entire process is creative. If you understand that word then you understand the name of the album, the shape of the figure, the entire process of the creative energy. Then it all kind of starts to make sense. But of course, Im a dickhead and an asshole so I like to have my little sense of humor and push peoples buttons a little bit. At its core, it is about a creative process. And that feminine character Its the fertility figure. Its the Venus. Its the temple at Newgrange. Its the Pentagram. Its all those things. But not just feminine; it's everybodys creative flow everybodys tapped into that creative process. In this particular instance and this particular project, I'm attempting to push more of that easy going, go with the flow, embrace your creative juices type process.

SG: Youve referred to Puscifer before as your island of misfit ideas and called it the space where your Id, Ego, and Anima all come together to exchange cookie recipes.

MJK: Yeah. The first piece that I did for Puscifer that I remember was the Free Francis Bean T-shirt in 1997. I didnt sell it; I just basically gave it away. I made a couple dozen of them. And Courtney [Love] hates me. I thought it was funny. [Laughs] I think she hates me even more because at some point her daughter said, Hey! Can I get one of those shirts? And she had to explain to her daughter that Maynards an asshole. [Laughs] Woops. I think a little tongue in cheek shock value is definitely part of my M.O. [laughs] but in general its about desensitizing yourself to things that shouldnt really matter that much.

SG: People talk about Puscifer like its a new project but youve been developing it for nearly a decade. You mentioned before your interest in small collaborations and on this album, everyone from Danny Lohner [NIN] to Tim Alexander [Primus] to Satan make guest appearances. Did you know in the beginning that it would grow to include such a range of influences?

MJK: Yeah [Puscifer has been around] since 94 or 95. It seems newer to people because Ive taken it more into the musical direction as of lately, but its always kind of been just a random creative process. Back in the mid 90s it was a comedy project. I was doing little songs and things here and there at the end of a comedy variety show. I would close the show some nights and Tenacious D would close the show other nights. Many of the Mr. Show sketches were all kind of worked out in this venue. You had people like Andy Dick doing stuff, Kathy Griffin, Greg Aton, Tenacious D apparently Simpatico used to perform on the set as well and Will Farrell was in Simpatico and I didnt even know because he was wearing a chicken mask and black tights I couldnt recognize him. Who would? Janeane Garofalo did a few. Laura Milligan was the main one that did the show and shes in the video for Cuntry Boner shes the one with the big blonde wig. We had a lot of fun doing that.

SG: How did Satan make an appearance on the album? Was he just there in spirit?

MJK: Um, hes an investor.

SG: [Laughs] Lets talk more about how you got involved with Mr. Show and how you hooked up with David Cross. How does he feel about Puscifer?

MJK: I havent really talked to him about it, honestly. Its been awhile. Probably the first time they heard the name Puscifer was when we did it as a tribute band for Ronnie Dobbs in Season One of Mr. Show. But hes a creative person so Im sure once I present this thing to him hell take all of three minutes to dissect it and tear it apart, call it crap, but make it sound very funny.

SG: Why did you feel the character of Ronnie Dobbs needed a tribute band? What was the name of the song Puscifer did for that film Run Ronnie Run, again?

MJK: Oh, that was Ass Kicking Fat Kid. Actually I think that song was written by Brian Posehn.

SG: We love Brian Posehn. He and one of our old editors for SuicideGirls, Gerry Duggan, did a comic book together called The Last Christmas which is really taking off.

MJK: [Laughs] Excellent.

SG: You keep a blog [Maynard] on SuicideGirls and I was reading over some recent entries. You have an amazing job that allows you to travel the world and really soak up experience. You recently went to Egypt and saw the pyramids, which must have been amazing. How much of this has affected what you do with Puscifer and what other kinds of life experiences lately have you been able to draw from to create new material?

MJK: [Egypt] is a huge space to step into. Its a very powerful place to visit. I think with anything, if youre presented with the chance to see things other than your normal everyday life, youre presented with an opportunity to grow and learn things. I think sometimes people get a little comfortable and they dont reach out and experience those types of things. I was in the military for three years and most peoples reaction to that is, Oh that must have been dreadful. But I actually took advantage of it. I learned a lot about human nature; I learned about how people deal with each other; I learned where I did not want to have a career [laughs]. Rather than just putting my time in and going home, taking my college fund that was useless and running, I actually learned quite a bit.

You know, Ive been on the road with a lot of bands and they get kind of caught up in the band lifestyle and they dont really broaden their horizons. And I think its a little depressing because you see people like Peter Gabriel or David Bowie and theyre really inspiring to me. Theyve stepped outside, theyre creative people; theyre not just musicians or rock stars. And theyre not even rock stars; theyve played one on TV for a moment. Like with Ziggy Stardust, Bowie was definitely a rock star. But hes more than that. Hes a really creative individual, as is Peter Gabriel.

If youre a creative person in general, I think you have an opportunity -- like you said -- you get to go to Egypt! I mean, come on. Who gets to go to Egypt? Its an amazing place. We went to Istanbul and all these different places and you really have to recognize that theres an experience waiting to express itself to you. You have to take advantage of those things and let them sink in. And as a creative person, you reinterpret what youve seen and you express it in some way. I think its disappointing that a lot of people dont take advantage of those things. Its weird. [Laughs] [You shouldnt] pass out drunk in Istanbul and forget you were even there like, Dude, WASP was in Istanbul and we got fuuuuucked up! Did you see the sights? No! We were drinkin!

SG: [Laughs]

MJK: Snore... [Laughs]

SG: Lets talk more about the humorous aspects of what you do. Charlie Chaplin once said something along the lines of, Humor is an engine for survival. Would you agree?

MJK: Absolutely. I think humor is absolutely essential. I think a lot of times -- especially in my past work -- its been kind of missed. But it's there. Anybody who saw Tool play in the late 90s with the wig and lipstick and fake tits, if you cant look at that and laugh, because I was laughing, I dont know about you but I thought it was ridiculous and would just horrify my band mates. Every time I was about to step on stage, I could barely keep a straight face. One of my favorite outfits was the one that just made my friend Camilla just cringe she had to get therapy. It was this orange Victorias Secret outfit with this big Peg Bundy wig and fake tits and some platforms, and whenever she sees the photos of it, she has to go get therapy.

SG: [Laughs]

MJK: It was funny. So the humor is definitely an essential element to this project and [laughs] I think theres been some -- I dont know if theyre Tool fans or just have some expectation of what Im supposed to be doing here -- but theyre hostile and upset that theres no math involved [laughs]. Im just having fun and doing what I want to do and just kind of seeing where this goes, [but] theyre getting a little angry at me. I guess they missed the sense of humor in the other stuff because theres a hell of a lot more here. Maybe Im just not very funny. Humor and art are inseparable. Even the most serious forms of art, if viewed by someone else, theyre actually comical. Thats as essential as the introspection and the picking the scabs and dissecting it. Giggling at it is just as healthy and just as therapeutic. You cant take yourself too seriously; lifes too short.

For more information go to Pusicfer's YouTube, MySpace, and buy Keenan's wine here.