Throughout his career, writer/director Luc Besson has always created strong female characters. From Anne Parillaud in La Femme Nikita to Milla Jovovich as Joan of Arc and now Rie Rasmussen as Angel-A in the film of the same name. After such large scale productions as Arthur and the Invisibles and The Fifth Element, Besson has created Angel-A, a powerful film without fighting or special effects. The film takes some unexpected turns as the two main characters played by Rasmussen and Jamel Debbouze spend much of the time just talking and discovering what it is in themselves that deserves to be loved. I got a chance to talk with Besson and Rasmussen on their recent trip to New York City.
Check out the website for Angel-A
Daniel Robert Epstein: Did the two of you know each other before the film?
Luc Besson: Yes.
Rie Rasmussen: I had worked with his company doing a short film. Actually I had harassed him to see if he would let me do my feature film as a writer/director and he refused because I was a little over anxious. He said, Here, make a short film. [laughs] I was like, Come on, give me $17 million. I can do it right now. Then I made a short film and it was nominated at the Cannes Film Festival and he said, Wow, maybe I should look a second time.
DRE: Are you making the feature?
Rie: Were on our way.
Luc: Shes going to do it in the fall.
DRE: Will it be based on the short film?
Rie: No, no, no, a whole new one.
Luc: Sometimes you see young people and you smell that theyre talented and full of imagery but the process of making a feature film has a certain digestion of things. You need a minimum of time to secure a few things. So even though she had done so many things the last two or three years, she was in the process of learning everything by doing two shorts, being on Angel-A for ten weeks and being part of the whole process. So now shes ready.
DRE: Rie I read that when you were working on Femme Fatale you would go watch [Femme Fatale director Brian] De Palma even during the scenes you werent in. So to get to work so closely with Luc must have been a great learning experience.
Rie: Yeah, it was very fun because I worked with [cinematographer] Thierry Arbogast on both Femme Fatale and Angel-A. I was following him around half-naked on the set saying, Thierry, remember in La Femme Nikita and he was like, This girls crazy. Then I got to work with Luc which was a thrill. Luc is a hero and an idol of mine. He has shaped me as a female with Le Femme Nikita so to be right there and let go of control and let him direct me was fantastic. I am an observant young girl so I was able to learn and I did.
DRE: Was this a difficult shoot?
Luc: It was about seven weeks. But some of the days were very short because there is the magic hour in Paris where you cant fight the light. Sometimes we would rehearse a lot then we would get together and just shoot for an hour or two.
Rie: Then that would be it.
Luc: That would be it for the day. We were able to shoot full scenes in that short time though. For example, when they fight on the bridge, it is two Steadicams and a third camera on my shoulder.
Rie: That took like an hour and a half. But we would always do a full scene, no matter the number of pages, like a small theater piece.
DRE: Luc, you have always included autobiographical elements in your films, like Arthur and the Invisibles and The Big Blue, was Angel-A in any way autobiographical?
Luc: The scene in the mirror happened to me with a girlfriend of mine, like probably 15 or 20 years ago. We were fighting each other and she grabbed me and pushed me in front of the mirror and said, Okay, look at you and say it. I couldnt. I couldnt say it. I said, Whats wrong with you? Of course I can say it. She said, Okay, then say it and I couldnt say it. I thought Why is it so difficult? Why cant I say it? Whats wrong with me? I never forgot this feeling and it took me like 20 years to understand that nothing was wrong, you just have to accept it. At least now, I can watch myself and say, Okay, I like you, all right? Dont bother me.
DRE: Luc youre probably 15 to 20 years older than Rie.
Luc: Yes but shes at a much more mature place. She can go to the mirror and kiss herself.
Rie: [laugh] I love myself. My parents were so supportive of me in everything I do, and they love me immensely; therefore, I do not have this question.
Luc: That little rejection of yourself always comes from your parents. They give you a reflection of yourself that you dont like.
Rie: I have an extended, huge family. They live for the kids. There are nine of us and we are the gods, we are the religion and my parents are exceptional parents. That is their world. I would never question that because they love me.
Luc: My parents divorced when I was really young and then they remarried and they made other kids. Thats very difficult for you to love yourself because you are the only sibling that has seen that it didnt work. My parents didnt understand that, they were too young. They loved me a lot, but they didnt know how to explain it or to say it. That stays with you.
DRE: Did you think of Rie when you were writing the film?
Luc: No, Ive had this story in my head for a long time. But I never found the girl and I never found the boy.
DRE: So you might have made this a long time ago if you had found the right actors?
Luc: No. The script was in stand-by, but I never went more with it because I didnt know if I could finish it. I met Rie and then I met Jamel [Debbouze] a couple of months later. I thought, Oh. Maybe the guy Ive seen over there and the girl Ive seen over there would be good together.
DRE: Rie, did you and Jamel have chemistry right away?
Rie: We were exactly what Luc needed us to be. We had the perfect energy on screen. Through Lucs brilliant casting, we worked perfect as Angel-A and Andr.
DRE: Luc, your films often have a lot of talking in them but this film is pretty much only two people talking, was that the way it was always going to be?
Luc: Yes, from the beginning there was only this.
Rie: The film has a very important premise, love yourself, and others will love you. Respect yourself and others will respect you. If you can love yourself with your flaws, then you can love your neighbor with their flaws. Then maybe our cultures could start talking, maybe then the world would start functioning and we wouldnt have to kill each other. The point of this film is a little social commentary about that no matter how different we look or we seem, with a little bit of love, a little bit of acceptance, we might make this things work easier.
Luc: When I make films, I am more interested in the content than the shape. But most of the time when I read papers and talk with people, it seems that people are much more impressed by the vision, the color, the shape and the music. For me, thats the easy part for me so maybe unconsciously this was a way for me to fight that. To say, Its a man and a woman and theyre going to talk all day long. But I couldnt help myself because the film is still beautiful.
DRE: Rie, what did Luc do to motivate you?
Rie: You got Luc Besson, thats enough fucking motivation. He is the producer of the largest grossing, highest profit film company in Europe mainly because of his writing. Hes hands-on all day long. When you come on set, you better know your shit because this guys going to turn it out. It is the respect for him as a producer, as an artist, as a director that motivates me. Youre working with Luc Besson; hes a fucking hero. So do it and do it well.
Luc: I think that the preparation is the most important. The relationship with the actor or the actress, talking about the script, knowing the lines by heart, rehearsing little by little so if you really prep enough, shooting is easy. Its the signature at the end of the paper.
Rie: The preparation that we did was spot on, Jamel and I, we would never go out in front of the camera without having rehearsed the scene with Luc a hundred times minimum. There was no improvisation in this movie. As an actor, you can improvise once you know your character completely. But you cant improvise if you dont know the text by heart because then youre just bullshitting. Picasso could draw silly, funny-looking ladies only after he could do complete realism.
Luc: Laure Manaudou is a 19 year old French girl that is the world champion of swimming, the French one. She has a big smile. Shes cute. Shes a big hero in France because she won many gold medals. When I was talking with her, she told me that she swims 16 kilometers a day and does three hours of pushups. So when she does a race, of course she wins. Its only 400 meters. She says the race day is easiest one.
DRE: Angel-A is in black and white, you havent done that since The Last Battle [released in 1983]
Luc: Yes my first film was in black and now my last one.
DRE: What made you decide to shoot Angel-A in black and white?
Luc: Black and white gives you that feeling that you dont really know if its real or if its a dream or if its a poem because black and white is not reality.
Rie: I like the stark contrast.
DRE: Did the two of you ever have debate of the nature they had in the movie?
Rie: No.
Luc: Not so much. Making a film together is like being a football team. Youre all like, Yeah, were going to make it. Part of it is the experience of being together all the time.
Rie: Film is not the actors vision. I can be super-excited about anything I want to do but ultimately he may say no. Theres no reason to argue against that because he is right, he is the director. It is his vision and thats what you follow so theres no like back and forth because he is the master. No is no.
DRE: I would like to ask you about Femme Fatale because to be in a Brian De Palma film is amazing thing, but to do a nude sex scene in a Brian De Palma film is
Rie: Fucking cool, man. [laughs]
DRE: I spoke to Rebecca [Romijn] about Femme Fatale years ago, but she said De Palma is not crazy.
Rie: No, he might have been once but he does live in a mysterious Brian universe. Hes very quiet, very reclusive, very tired until his naptime. Hes the opposite of Luc, I would say.
DRE: Really?
Rie: Yes, Luc goes out and talks to all the other young people and meets new ones and gets inspired by the bird in the sky and whatnot. Every time I see him he has a new project running. Whereas Brians like, Look, Im going to take my time. Im going to have a nap. I dont want to talk too much.
Luc: Its funny because when I was younger, Brian inspired me a lot. I really like him a lot. I met him like two years ago and hes older now and you can feel a little sadness. I think that the few times he tried to go the more commercial route through Hollywood hurt him a lot. It makes him sad. But I think when you are a real artist, and he is a real artist, you always have a moment in your life the Hollywood mermaid comes and says, Heres the money; heres the power. Sometimes you get attracted to it and say, Yeah, maybe I should try and I think this is what he thought. But I say never do it.
DRE: So never do the whole one for them attitude?
Luc: Dont even try it. If youre an artist, stay an artist. There is nothing to win. It doesnt mean the Hollywood system is bad. Its just another system.
Rie: Luc has always written everything hes directed. Hes never been a writer/director for hire. But he started a company in Paris that will give a chance to young directors and it is profiting immensely so he knows how to create a flow of books and music and I think he gets his creative juices satisfied. He doesnt have to look for money because hes funding it himself with his own creativity.
DRE: Arthur and the Invisibles did very well all over the world except in America. Why do you think it didnt connect here?
Luc: Ive worked in the movie business for 30 years now and for each film I work 40 different distributors around the world. The American distributor on Arthur [The Weinstein Company] was the worst I have worked with in my entire life, in any country. I think this is the essence of all the problems. Why the critics didnt like Arthur was because they changed so much of the film and tried to pretend the film was American. The critics arent stupid. They watched the film, they vaguely smell American but they can feel the film is forced for an American audience. The film is European. Its made by a Frenchman. This was the only country where the film was changed. The rest of the world has the same film as France.
DRE: Many people on SuicideGirls are obsessed with The Fifth Element and Leeloo especially. What inspired her look?
Luc: What I really liked was to say that the savior of the universe would be a woman. She wont be full of muscle. She would have no weapon. She wont speak any language that we know. I liked this funny idea of the world being saved by this tiny, charming girl who wasnt there for the last 10,000 years. Shes just come back in town and shes discovering everything. Shes speaks 9000 languages except this one. At the time, I tested so many girls for the role. The test was so funny, for example I would point the camera at them and say, Close your eyes and when you open them I want you see the world as if you have never seen it before. The first time I did the test on Milla [Jovovich] she thought she was terrible and she was very surprised when we called her back for the second round.
DRE: Rie, do you know when youre going to be starting your feature?
Rie: Top secret details, I dont know what Im allowed to say.
Luc: In the fall, in the fall [laughs].
DRE: Whats it about?
Rie: Its basically about borders. The little red lines in the sand that creates little countries that Mother Earth wasnt born with, meaning that all that violence and bloodshed and terror would be gone if the red lines were gone. I have a sister from Vietnam who was trying to get papers to get to Denmark for five years. My family wants her here but shes not allowed to live in the country that her family lives in. We have protected those red lines on the map with bloodshed and terror for so long because we think this little piece of ground is so important to us. Also its the females point of view of dealing with equality.
DRE: Are you going to be in the film?
Rie: Yes, Ive directed myself in my own short films and I know the dialogue because I fucking wrote it. So I wont be the little bitchy girl who wont get up in the morning.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Check out the website for Angel-A
Daniel Robert Epstein: Did the two of you know each other before the film?
Luc Besson: Yes.
Rie Rasmussen: I had worked with his company doing a short film. Actually I had harassed him to see if he would let me do my feature film as a writer/director and he refused because I was a little over anxious. He said, Here, make a short film. [laughs] I was like, Come on, give me $17 million. I can do it right now. Then I made a short film and it was nominated at the Cannes Film Festival and he said, Wow, maybe I should look a second time.
DRE: Are you making the feature?
Rie: Were on our way.
Luc: Shes going to do it in the fall.
DRE: Will it be based on the short film?
Rie: No, no, no, a whole new one.
Luc: Sometimes you see young people and you smell that theyre talented and full of imagery but the process of making a feature film has a certain digestion of things. You need a minimum of time to secure a few things. So even though she had done so many things the last two or three years, she was in the process of learning everything by doing two shorts, being on Angel-A for ten weeks and being part of the whole process. So now shes ready.
DRE: Rie I read that when you were working on Femme Fatale you would go watch [Femme Fatale director Brian] De Palma even during the scenes you werent in. So to get to work so closely with Luc must have been a great learning experience.
Rie: Yeah, it was very fun because I worked with [cinematographer] Thierry Arbogast on both Femme Fatale and Angel-A. I was following him around half-naked on the set saying, Thierry, remember in La Femme Nikita and he was like, This girls crazy. Then I got to work with Luc which was a thrill. Luc is a hero and an idol of mine. He has shaped me as a female with Le Femme Nikita so to be right there and let go of control and let him direct me was fantastic. I am an observant young girl so I was able to learn and I did.
DRE: Was this a difficult shoot?
Luc: It was about seven weeks. But some of the days were very short because there is the magic hour in Paris where you cant fight the light. Sometimes we would rehearse a lot then we would get together and just shoot for an hour or two.
Rie: Then that would be it.
Luc: That would be it for the day. We were able to shoot full scenes in that short time though. For example, when they fight on the bridge, it is two Steadicams and a third camera on my shoulder.
Rie: That took like an hour and a half. But we would always do a full scene, no matter the number of pages, like a small theater piece.
DRE: Luc, you have always included autobiographical elements in your films, like Arthur and the Invisibles and The Big Blue, was Angel-A in any way autobiographical?
Luc: The scene in the mirror happened to me with a girlfriend of mine, like probably 15 or 20 years ago. We were fighting each other and she grabbed me and pushed me in front of the mirror and said, Okay, look at you and say it. I couldnt. I couldnt say it. I said, Whats wrong with you? Of course I can say it. She said, Okay, then say it and I couldnt say it. I thought Why is it so difficult? Why cant I say it? Whats wrong with me? I never forgot this feeling and it took me like 20 years to understand that nothing was wrong, you just have to accept it. At least now, I can watch myself and say, Okay, I like you, all right? Dont bother me.
DRE: Luc youre probably 15 to 20 years older than Rie.
Luc: Yes but shes at a much more mature place. She can go to the mirror and kiss herself.
Rie: [laugh] I love myself. My parents were so supportive of me in everything I do, and they love me immensely; therefore, I do not have this question.
Luc: That little rejection of yourself always comes from your parents. They give you a reflection of yourself that you dont like.
Rie: I have an extended, huge family. They live for the kids. There are nine of us and we are the gods, we are the religion and my parents are exceptional parents. That is their world. I would never question that because they love me.
Luc: My parents divorced when I was really young and then they remarried and they made other kids. Thats very difficult for you to love yourself because you are the only sibling that has seen that it didnt work. My parents didnt understand that, they were too young. They loved me a lot, but they didnt know how to explain it or to say it. That stays with you.
DRE: Did you think of Rie when you were writing the film?
Luc: No, Ive had this story in my head for a long time. But I never found the girl and I never found the boy.
DRE: So you might have made this a long time ago if you had found the right actors?
Luc: No. The script was in stand-by, but I never went more with it because I didnt know if I could finish it. I met Rie and then I met Jamel [Debbouze] a couple of months later. I thought, Oh. Maybe the guy Ive seen over there and the girl Ive seen over there would be good together.
DRE: Rie, did you and Jamel have chemistry right away?
Rie: We were exactly what Luc needed us to be. We had the perfect energy on screen. Through Lucs brilliant casting, we worked perfect as Angel-A and Andr.
DRE: Luc, your films often have a lot of talking in them but this film is pretty much only two people talking, was that the way it was always going to be?
Luc: Yes, from the beginning there was only this.
Rie: The film has a very important premise, love yourself, and others will love you. Respect yourself and others will respect you. If you can love yourself with your flaws, then you can love your neighbor with their flaws. Then maybe our cultures could start talking, maybe then the world would start functioning and we wouldnt have to kill each other. The point of this film is a little social commentary about that no matter how different we look or we seem, with a little bit of love, a little bit of acceptance, we might make this things work easier.
Luc: When I make films, I am more interested in the content than the shape. But most of the time when I read papers and talk with people, it seems that people are much more impressed by the vision, the color, the shape and the music. For me, thats the easy part for me so maybe unconsciously this was a way for me to fight that. To say, Its a man and a woman and theyre going to talk all day long. But I couldnt help myself because the film is still beautiful.
DRE: Rie, what did Luc do to motivate you?
Rie: You got Luc Besson, thats enough fucking motivation. He is the producer of the largest grossing, highest profit film company in Europe mainly because of his writing. Hes hands-on all day long. When you come on set, you better know your shit because this guys going to turn it out. It is the respect for him as a producer, as an artist, as a director that motivates me. Youre working with Luc Besson; hes a fucking hero. So do it and do it well.
Luc: I think that the preparation is the most important. The relationship with the actor or the actress, talking about the script, knowing the lines by heart, rehearsing little by little so if you really prep enough, shooting is easy. Its the signature at the end of the paper.
Rie: The preparation that we did was spot on, Jamel and I, we would never go out in front of the camera without having rehearsed the scene with Luc a hundred times minimum. There was no improvisation in this movie. As an actor, you can improvise once you know your character completely. But you cant improvise if you dont know the text by heart because then youre just bullshitting. Picasso could draw silly, funny-looking ladies only after he could do complete realism.
Luc: Laure Manaudou is a 19 year old French girl that is the world champion of swimming, the French one. She has a big smile. Shes cute. Shes a big hero in France because she won many gold medals. When I was talking with her, she told me that she swims 16 kilometers a day and does three hours of pushups. So when she does a race, of course she wins. Its only 400 meters. She says the race day is easiest one.
DRE: Angel-A is in black and white, you havent done that since The Last Battle [released in 1983]
Luc: Yes my first film was in black and now my last one.
DRE: What made you decide to shoot Angel-A in black and white?
Luc: Black and white gives you that feeling that you dont really know if its real or if its a dream or if its a poem because black and white is not reality.
Rie: I like the stark contrast.
DRE: Did the two of you ever have debate of the nature they had in the movie?
Rie: No.
Luc: Not so much. Making a film together is like being a football team. Youre all like, Yeah, were going to make it. Part of it is the experience of being together all the time.
Rie: Film is not the actors vision. I can be super-excited about anything I want to do but ultimately he may say no. Theres no reason to argue against that because he is right, he is the director. It is his vision and thats what you follow so theres no like back and forth because he is the master. No is no.
DRE: I would like to ask you about Femme Fatale because to be in a Brian De Palma film is amazing thing, but to do a nude sex scene in a Brian De Palma film is
Rie: Fucking cool, man. [laughs]
DRE: I spoke to Rebecca [Romijn] about Femme Fatale years ago, but she said De Palma is not crazy.
Rie: No, he might have been once but he does live in a mysterious Brian universe. Hes very quiet, very reclusive, very tired until his naptime. Hes the opposite of Luc, I would say.
DRE: Really?
Rie: Yes, Luc goes out and talks to all the other young people and meets new ones and gets inspired by the bird in the sky and whatnot. Every time I see him he has a new project running. Whereas Brians like, Look, Im going to take my time. Im going to have a nap. I dont want to talk too much.
Luc: Its funny because when I was younger, Brian inspired me a lot. I really like him a lot. I met him like two years ago and hes older now and you can feel a little sadness. I think that the few times he tried to go the more commercial route through Hollywood hurt him a lot. It makes him sad. But I think when you are a real artist, and he is a real artist, you always have a moment in your life the Hollywood mermaid comes and says, Heres the money; heres the power. Sometimes you get attracted to it and say, Yeah, maybe I should try and I think this is what he thought. But I say never do it.
DRE: So never do the whole one for them attitude?
Luc: Dont even try it. If youre an artist, stay an artist. There is nothing to win. It doesnt mean the Hollywood system is bad. Its just another system.
Rie: Luc has always written everything hes directed. Hes never been a writer/director for hire. But he started a company in Paris that will give a chance to young directors and it is profiting immensely so he knows how to create a flow of books and music and I think he gets his creative juices satisfied. He doesnt have to look for money because hes funding it himself with his own creativity.
DRE: Arthur and the Invisibles did very well all over the world except in America. Why do you think it didnt connect here?
Luc: Ive worked in the movie business for 30 years now and for each film I work 40 different distributors around the world. The American distributor on Arthur [The Weinstein Company] was the worst I have worked with in my entire life, in any country. I think this is the essence of all the problems. Why the critics didnt like Arthur was because they changed so much of the film and tried to pretend the film was American. The critics arent stupid. They watched the film, they vaguely smell American but they can feel the film is forced for an American audience. The film is European. Its made by a Frenchman. This was the only country where the film was changed. The rest of the world has the same film as France.
DRE: Many people on SuicideGirls are obsessed with The Fifth Element and Leeloo especially. What inspired her look?
Luc: What I really liked was to say that the savior of the universe would be a woman. She wont be full of muscle. She would have no weapon. She wont speak any language that we know. I liked this funny idea of the world being saved by this tiny, charming girl who wasnt there for the last 10,000 years. Shes just come back in town and shes discovering everything. Shes speaks 9000 languages except this one. At the time, I tested so many girls for the role. The test was so funny, for example I would point the camera at them and say, Close your eyes and when you open them I want you see the world as if you have never seen it before. The first time I did the test on Milla [Jovovich] she thought she was terrible and she was very surprised when we called her back for the second round.
DRE: Rie, do you know when youre going to be starting your feature?
Rie: Top secret details, I dont know what Im allowed to say.
Luc: In the fall, in the fall [laughs].
DRE: Whats it about?
Rie: Its basically about borders. The little red lines in the sand that creates little countries that Mother Earth wasnt born with, meaning that all that violence and bloodshed and terror would be gone if the red lines were gone. I have a sister from Vietnam who was trying to get papers to get to Denmark for five years. My family wants her here but shes not allowed to live in the country that her family lives in. We have protected those red lines on the map with bloodshed and terror for so long because we think this little piece of ground is so important to us. Also its the females point of view of dealing with equality.
DRE: Are you going to be in the film?
Rie: Yes, Ive directed myself in my own short films and I know the dialogue because I fucking wrote it. So I wont be the little bitchy girl who wont get up in the morning.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 6 of 6 COMMENTS
Nice to know there are a couple more films by him I can watch now.