Chip Kidd is one of those brilliant guys that not too many people know about. To learn his name you have to open up one of the books hes designed and look on the credits page. But he also gets a lot of press because hes created some of the most eye catching and dynamic images to ever grace the cover of a book. Some of his most famous works are books by Michael Crichton, Dry by Augusten Burroughs, Mythology: The DC Comics Art of Alex Ross, Peanuts: The Art of Charles M. Schulz, numerous comic related books and much more. He has also authored a novel, The Cheese Monkeys. His latest work is a retrospective on him and his work called Chip Kidd: Book One: 1986-2006.
Buy Chip Kidd: Book One: 1986-2006
Daniel Robert Epstein: Does becoming a Jeopardy question really mean that youve made it?
Chip Kidd: No, not if Im any indication. What it really means is that theres a writer on Jeopardy whos a fan of my stuff.
DRE: Were you watching or did you get 100 phone calls?
CK: I got a hundred phone calls. I actually love Jeopardy but I dont watch a lot of TV, because I usually dont have time. I got asked to do an Op-Ed illustration for the New York Times Op-Ed page and the first couple times that happened, I thought, Wow, this is the crucible of human thought, everybody will see this and the phone will ring off the hook. Hardly ever happened. 15 seconds on Jeopardy and you hear from everybody you ever went to elementary school with.
DRE: What parts of Chip CK: Book One did you design?
CK: I designed the beginning and the end. The beginning gets you into the book and the end is all the comics stuff. That I did, personally. But the rest of it was done by this guy named Mark Melnick, who is a freelance designer who I hired for Random House eight or nine years ago.
DRE: Was that because you didnt want to design a book about you?
CK: There were several reasons. First of all, its a logistical task. It was huge. I save everything. So its either in my office or in my apartment or in storage. What we did was go up to the storage place, which is in New Haven, Connecticut and just go through everything. The other thing was that it needed a fresh eye to it. Ive lived with this stuff for 20 years now. Mark really did bring a lot to it. I really owe him in terms of what the book is.
DRE: I see a lot of books here in your office that arent published by Random House, do you freelance a lot?
CK: Oh yeah but ironically, between the time that Rizzoli approached me to do this book and the time the book actually came out, which is about a space of two and a half years, Random House picked up Rizzoli for distribution. That was great, because I had a sales force that was pretty dedicated.
Its pretty much industry standard that book cover designers are all freelance. We all sleep around because were not paid that much. As long as Im responsible about it, theyre cool with it.
DRE: Whose idea was Book One?
CK: I was approached by an editor at Rizzoli named Ian Luna. But his timing was uncanny because another book was being put together by Veronique Vienne. That book was published by the Yale University Press and was a mixed experience. In other words, I cooperated with it, but I didnt have any say in what was in it and I signed on for it with that understanding. I couldnt design it, there were things in that I didnt think were all that interesting and there were things left out of it that I thought were very important. So that book was in the final stages of being put together when this guy from Rizzoli called me. I was excited because I got to do this my way.
DRE: How soon when reading a book do you come up with the idea for the cover?
CK: Sometimes Ill be sitting in what we call our launch meeting, in which the editors come in one by one and they tell us what theyre editing for the new list and Ill get the idea right there.
DRE: Do you ever get stumped?
CK: Right now people at Harper Collins are tapping their fingers on the table, because I have to do the new Michael Chabon book, which is very good. But Im not quite done reading it and I dont have a freaking clue.
DRE: In Book One there is a picture of your collection and I noticed a lot of Captain Marvel in it. What do you like about that character?
CK: Actually thats extremely misleading, because thats a shot of my entire Captain Marvel collection and thats all on one shelf. As opposed to the Batman stuff which takes over the rest of the apartment. The thing about collecting Batman stuff is that even though Batman came out in 1939, they practically made nothing until 1966, outside of the comics. For Captain Marvel they made a ton of stuff in the 40s and its still relatively affordable, as opposed to Superman, which they made a ton of stuff in the 40's, but its all really expensive. So having semi-saturated myself with Batman stuff, I started collecting Captain Marvel stuff.
DRE: I spoke to Alex Ross recently and he sang your praises for your work on Mythology, when did you first see his work?
CK: It was with Marvels. I was very taken with it and then I was very excited when I heard that Kingdom Come was going to be happening. He used to be represented by a gallery here in New York. When the first issue of Kingdom Come came out he had a show of his stuff, I went to see it and thats how we met. I introduced myself at the show and he actually had long hair back then. We kept in touch and then I had just finished the Peanuts book and this editor at DC, Charlie Kochman, approached me about doing a book on Alex. At that point I was so strung out and exhausted from doing Peanuts I told him I couldnt even think about doing something like that right now. So I think we waited a year or something like that and then we just plunged in. Alex and I are friends and the one peril with doing books with your friends, regardless of whether theyre Alex Ross or Chris Ware, its like going into business with your friend. You have to be very careful. You want to preserve the friendship first.
DRE: Those two people in particular have very strong personalities.
CK: Yes and both are geniuses and worth pursuing in terms of making a creative project. But youve got to make sure it gets printed right so youve got all these quality control things that can really shake things up. Though in both cases Ive been really lucky, because what weve done together is great and were all still friends. I just feel incredibly lucky to be friends with them.
DRE: Alexs work is so dynamic, was his book as much work as something like Peanuts, which of course has a great history, but isnt exactly dynamic?
CK: The main difference in putting the Peanuts book together and putting Alexs book together is that Alex is alive and Charles Schulz isnt. Otherwise its very similar. The other difference is that obviously Schulzs career was finite, so you had 50 years worth of stuff and Alex is still very much in the prime of his life and his career. But its all about organization and you really make it up as you go along. Schulzs and Alexs lives parallel in that they were both kids who turned to comics basically for friendship and to help drag them out of their not so great lives. They both decided that this is what they were going to do and they both changed the world.
DRE: I read that you use something called the magpie method to create the book covers.
CK: Yes thats something Im a serious believer in. Thats the difference between what a graphic designer does and an actual serious artist. Youve got certain graphic designers who generate their own imagery, but for the most part youre working with somebody elses. Thats all about picking and choosing, its magpie. Its matching things.
DRE: I know that some of the book covers youve done have become somewhat of the base for the poster of the eventual movie, such as Jurassic Park. Have you ever designed movie posters?
CK: In the interest of full disclosure, at 3:30 today, someone from Sony is coming in and were going to talk about several movies that they want me to work on. Im always open to it, yet to this date it has never ever worked out. Thats partly why Im still in books because Ive had a measure of success in getting my ideas produced. In the movie business, all the clichs are true. You do a ton of work for a ton of money and nothing ever sees the light of day. For books, you do one thing, its the thing you love, it gets approved and it goes out there. But I get paid a relative pittance. I really cant complain. Ive done okay. With the movie thing, its things like Scarlett Johanssons agent says her head has to be 80% the size of Jude Law, and et cetera, et cetera. Thats why most movie posters look like shit.
DRE: Like the Shopgirl poster. Its so blah. I think it is lazy to just throw the stars up on the poster standing there.
CK: Yeah, the one notable exception this year was Thumbsucker and thats because [writer/director] Mike Mills is a graphic designer.
DRE: Do you turn down a ton of stuff?
CK: It works out pretty even. Every now and then Ill turn down something, but its usually because of scheduling. But I would turn down something if its not a project that doesnt interest me.
DRE: Would that happen after reading the book?
CK: Usually I dont have to read it. Its like, this is my book on financial taxation or whatever. Or somebody will say, Ive got a manuscript, its about blah, and I would love for you to do the cover. Then I say, well whos publishing it? and they say, well I dont really have a publisher yet and then you politely get them off the phone. But yeah, I was asked to do something about financial consultation or something, and I was just not interested.
DRE: Are you the one that got all the Fantagraphics creators over to Pantheon?
CK: Partially. We started with The Jew of New York by Ben Katchor. But again, its timing. Jimmy Corrigan was coming to an end so we did that book with Chris Ware. David Boring was coming to an end. Lets do the book. Theres been some carping on the fact that we raided the coffers of Fantagraphics.
DRE: Please, keep doing it.
CK: Yeah, we have a very copacetic relationship with them. They were the first to admit that they could not have published Jimmy Corrigan the way we did it. They wouldve had to charge 50 bucks a copy.
DRE: I see you have some of Ivan Brunettis stuff here.
CK: I would kill to publish him.
DRE: I love his work, what would you do with him?
CK: The question is, what would he do? I love Ivan; I just went to his wedding last month. Id like to lock him in a room, chain him to a drawing table and just shove food through a slot under the door until he produces. Hes not terribly prolific for various reasons, but hes getting his act together more. Hes been talking about doing something called Concrete Playground for years. Its his life story as a child. But I want to do whatever he wants to do. I would have gone in front of an entire conference room of Random House salespeople and convinced them of why we should publish Haw.
DRE: What would they have said?
CK: Usually by the time a situation comes to that, we are publishing it so then they have to get excited to sell it. The convincing to buy the book, that goes on between me and [editorial director] Dan Frank. Hes the one who could say, were not publishing something with an AIDS blood joke in it. But my god, we used to publish Salman Rushdie. Were grownups. I think Ivan does really great cartoons.
DRE: Do you like Johnny Ryan?
CK: Yeah but my vocabulary for him is very limited. He did Blecky Yuckerella. I think thats fun. Its not transcendent, but its fun
DRE: Are you writing another novel?
CK: If I could write it as well as I can talk about it, it would be done by now. Its called The Learners, Im about 120 pages into it.
DRE: How long do you think it will be?
CK: Probably as long as The Cheese Monkeys which was like 250 pages. In the summer of 2004, I excerpted a small part of it on USA Todays website.
DRE: Whats it about?
CK: Its basically the unsequel to The Cheese Monkeys. Its the same narrator, totally different world. Hes graduated from school and he takes his first job.
DRE: I read something about a movie of Cheese Monkeys.
CK: Yeah Im working on the screenplay.
DRE: By yourself?
CK: No with the guy who wants to direct it, Chris Grismer. Itd be his first feature. Hes Canadian. Hes done a lot of TV like Queer As Folk. Now hes working on a new series on Fox by the creators of 24. Hes this smart great guy who gets it and wants to do it right.
DRE: Did your agents put you together?
CK: He approached me and then the agents worked out the money, which was negligible. I didnt care. I just wanted somebody who wanted to do it right. Theyll do it as a small independent film.
DRE: How much do you know about SuicideGirls?
CK: Almost nothing.
DRE: Do you want a membership?
CK: Is it something that one becomes a member of?
DRE: Yes, its like nude punk girls. I dont know how much youre interested in that.
CK: I have to say thats about on the opposite end of the scale of anything that I would be interested in erotically.
DRE: They have SuicideBoys on there.
CK: How old?
DRE: Young guys.
CK: No, this will tell you the tale. My boyfriend is 60 years old and I totally dig that.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Buy Chip Kidd: Book One: 1986-2006
Daniel Robert Epstein: Does becoming a Jeopardy question really mean that youve made it?
Chip Kidd: No, not if Im any indication. What it really means is that theres a writer on Jeopardy whos a fan of my stuff.
DRE: Were you watching or did you get 100 phone calls?
CK: I got a hundred phone calls. I actually love Jeopardy but I dont watch a lot of TV, because I usually dont have time. I got asked to do an Op-Ed illustration for the New York Times Op-Ed page and the first couple times that happened, I thought, Wow, this is the crucible of human thought, everybody will see this and the phone will ring off the hook. Hardly ever happened. 15 seconds on Jeopardy and you hear from everybody you ever went to elementary school with.
DRE: What parts of Chip CK: Book One did you design?
CK: I designed the beginning and the end. The beginning gets you into the book and the end is all the comics stuff. That I did, personally. But the rest of it was done by this guy named Mark Melnick, who is a freelance designer who I hired for Random House eight or nine years ago.
DRE: Was that because you didnt want to design a book about you?
CK: There were several reasons. First of all, its a logistical task. It was huge. I save everything. So its either in my office or in my apartment or in storage. What we did was go up to the storage place, which is in New Haven, Connecticut and just go through everything. The other thing was that it needed a fresh eye to it. Ive lived with this stuff for 20 years now. Mark really did bring a lot to it. I really owe him in terms of what the book is.
DRE: I see a lot of books here in your office that arent published by Random House, do you freelance a lot?
CK: Oh yeah but ironically, between the time that Rizzoli approached me to do this book and the time the book actually came out, which is about a space of two and a half years, Random House picked up Rizzoli for distribution. That was great, because I had a sales force that was pretty dedicated.
Its pretty much industry standard that book cover designers are all freelance. We all sleep around because were not paid that much. As long as Im responsible about it, theyre cool with it.
DRE: Whose idea was Book One?
CK: I was approached by an editor at Rizzoli named Ian Luna. But his timing was uncanny because another book was being put together by Veronique Vienne. That book was published by the Yale University Press and was a mixed experience. In other words, I cooperated with it, but I didnt have any say in what was in it and I signed on for it with that understanding. I couldnt design it, there were things in that I didnt think were all that interesting and there were things left out of it that I thought were very important. So that book was in the final stages of being put together when this guy from Rizzoli called me. I was excited because I got to do this my way.
DRE: How soon when reading a book do you come up with the idea for the cover?
CK: Sometimes Ill be sitting in what we call our launch meeting, in which the editors come in one by one and they tell us what theyre editing for the new list and Ill get the idea right there.
DRE: Do you ever get stumped?
CK: Right now people at Harper Collins are tapping their fingers on the table, because I have to do the new Michael Chabon book, which is very good. But Im not quite done reading it and I dont have a freaking clue.
DRE: In Book One there is a picture of your collection and I noticed a lot of Captain Marvel in it. What do you like about that character?
CK: Actually thats extremely misleading, because thats a shot of my entire Captain Marvel collection and thats all on one shelf. As opposed to the Batman stuff which takes over the rest of the apartment. The thing about collecting Batman stuff is that even though Batman came out in 1939, they practically made nothing until 1966, outside of the comics. For Captain Marvel they made a ton of stuff in the 40s and its still relatively affordable, as opposed to Superman, which they made a ton of stuff in the 40's, but its all really expensive. So having semi-saturated myself with Batman stuff, I started collecting Captain Marvel stuff.
DRE: I spoke to Alex Ross recently and he sang your praises for your work on Mythology, when did you first see his work?
CK: It was with Marvels. I was very taken with it and then I was very excited when I heard that Kingdom Come was going to be happening. He used to be represented by a gallery here in New York. When the first issue of Kingdom Come came out he had a show of his stuff, I went to see it and thats how we met. I introduced myself at the show and he actually had long hair back then. We kept in touch and then I had just finished the Peanuts book and this editor at DC, Charlie Kochman, approached me about doing a book on Alex. At that point I was so strung out and exhausted from doing Peanuts I told him I couldnt even think about doing something like that right now. So I think we waited a year or something like that and then we just plunged in. Alex and I are friends and the one peril with doing books with your friends, regardless of whether theyre Alex Ross or Chris Ware, its like going into business with your friend. You have to be very careful. You want to preserve the friendship first.
DRE: Those two people in particular have very strong personalities.
CK: Yes and both are geniuses and worth pursuing in terms of making a creative project. But youve got to make sure it gets printed right so youve got all these quality control things that can really shake things up. Though in both cases Ive been really lucky, because what weve done together is great and were all still friends. I just feel incredibly lucky to be friends with them.
DRE: Alexs work is so dynamic, was his book as much work as something like Peanuts, which of course has a great history, but isnt exactly dynamic?
CK: The main difference in putting the Peanuts book together and putting Alexs book together is that Alex is alive and Charles Schulz isnt. Otherwise its very similar. The other difference is that obviously Schulzs career was finite, so you had 50 years worth of stuff and Alex is still very much in the prime of his life and his career. But its all about organization and you really make it up as you go along. Schulzs and Alexs lives parallel in that they were both kids who turned to comics basically for friendship and to help drag them out of their not so great lives. They both decided that this is what they were going to do and they both changed the world.
DRE: I read that you use something called the magpie method to create the book covers.
CK: Yes thats something Im a serious believer in. Thats the difference between what a graphic designer does and an actual serious artist. Youve got certain graphic designers who generate their own imagery, but for the most part youre working with somebody elses. Thats all about picking and choosing, its magpie. Its matching things.
DRE: I know that some of the book covers youve done have become somewhat of the base for the poster of the eventual movie, such as Jurassic Park. Have you ever designed movie posters?
CK: In the interest of full disclosure, at 3:30 today, someone from Sony is coming in and were going to talk about several movies that they want me to work on. Im always open to it, yet to this date it has never ever worked out. Thats partly why Im still in books because Ive had a measure of success in getting my ideas produced. In the movie business, all the clichs are true. You do a ton of work for a ton of money and nothing ever sees the light of day. For books, you do one thing, its the thing you love, it gets approved and it goes out there. But I get paid a relative pittance. I really cant complain. Ive done okay. With the movie thing, its things like Scarlett Johanssons agent says her head has to be 80% the size of Jude Law, and et cetera, et cetera. Thats why most movie posters look like shit.
DRE: Like the Shopgirl poster. Its so blah. I think it is lazy to just throw the stars up on the poster standing there.
CK: Yeah, the one notable exception this year was Thumbsucker and thats because [writer/director] Mike Mills is a graphic designer.
DRE: Do you turn down a ton of stuff?
CK: It works out pretty even. Every now and then Ill turn down something, but its usually because of scheduling. But I would turn down something if its not a project that doesnt interest me.
DRE: Would that happen after reading the book?
CK: Usually I dont have to read it. Its like, this is my book on financial taxation or whatever. Or somebody will say, Ive got a manuscript, its about blah, and I would love for you to do the cover. Then I say, well whos publishing it? and they say, well I dont really have a publisher yet and then you politely get them off the phone. But yeah, I was asked to do something about financial consultation or something, and I was just not interested.
DRE: Are you the one that got all the Fantagraphics creators over to Pantheon?
CK: Partially. We started with The Jew of New York by Ben Katchor. But again, its timing. Jimmy Corrigan was coming to an end so we did that book with Chris Ware. David Boring was coming to an end. Lets do the book. Theres been some carping on the fact that we raided the coffers of Fantagraphics.
DRE: Please, keep doing it.
CK: Yeah, we have a very copacetic relationship with them. They were the first to admit that they could not have published Jimmy Corrigan the way we did it. They wouldve had to charge 50 bucks a copy.
DRE: I see you have some of Ivan Brunettis stuff here.
CK: I would kill to publish him.
DRE: I love his work, what would you do with him?
CK: The question is, what would he do? I love Ivan; I just went to his wedding last month. Id like to lock him in a room, chain him to a drawing table and just shove food through a slot under the door until he produces. Hes not terribly prolific for various reasons, but hes getting his act together more. Hes been talking about doing something called Concrete Playground for years. Its his life story as a child. But I want to do whatever he wants to do. I would have gone in front of an entire conference room of Random House salespeople and convinced them of why we should publish Haw.
DRE: What would they have said?
CK: Usually by the time a situation comes to that, we are publishing it so then they have to get excited to sell it. The convincing to buy the book, that goes on between me and [editorial director] Dan Frank. Hes the one who could say, were not publishing something with an AIDS blood joke in it. But my god, we used to publish Salman Rushdie. Were grownups. I think Ivan does really great cartoons.
DRE: Do you like Johnny Ryan?
CK: Yeah but my vocabulary for him is very limited. He did Blecky Yuckerella. I think thats fun. Its not transcendent, but its fun
DRE: Are you writing another novel?
CK: If I could write it as well as I can talk about it, it would be done by now. Its called The Learners, Im about 120 pages into it.
DRE: How long do you think it will be?
CK: Probably as long as The Cheese Monkeys which was like 250 pages. In the summer of 2004, I excerpted a small part of it on USA Todays website.
DRE: Whats it about?
CK: Its basically the unsequel to The Cheese Monkeys. Its the same narrator, totally different world. Hes graduated from school and he takes his first job.
DRE: I read something about a movie of Cheese Monkeys.
CK: Yeah Im working on the screenplay.
DRE: By yourself?
CK: No with the guy who wants to direct it, Chris Grismer. Itd be his first feature. Hes Canadian. Hes done a lot of TV like Queer As Folk. Now hes working on a new series on Fox by the creators of 24. Hes this smart great guy who gets it and wants to do it right.
DRE: Did your agents put you together?
CK: He approached me and then the agents worked out the money, which was negligible. I didnt care. I just wanted somebody who wanted to do it right. Theyll do it as a small independent film.
DRE: How much do you know about SuicideGirls?
CK: Almost nothing.
DRE: Do you want a membership?
CK: Is it something that one becomes a member of?
DRE: Yes, its like nude punk girls. I dont know how much youre interested in that.
CK: I have to say thats about on the opposite end of the scale of anything that I would be interested in erotically.
DRE: They have SuicideBoys on there.
CK: How old?
DRE: Young guys.
CK: No, this will tell you the tale. My boyfriend is 60 years old and I totally dig that.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
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I live, breathe, sleep. eat, think, design. design. design. every day of my life....It's who I am:
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