This October 18th a number of SuicideGirls will be appearing on an episode of CSI: NY. This kind of acceptance from such a mainstream narrative television series on a major network truly proves that SuicideGirls has become a significant part of pop culture. The episode truly focuses on the positive aspects of SuicideGirls. They arent just in the background while the main characters are showcased. The SuicideGirls are integral to the storyline which makes for a very unique and exciting episode. I had a chance to talk with the creator of all the CSI shows, Anthony E. Zuiker.
SuicideGirls CSI: NY episode airs October 18th at 10pm EST
Daniel Robert Epstein: How did this whole thing get started?
Anthony E. Zuiker: About three years ago, I was in a B. Dalton bookstore and I saw the hardback SuicideGirls book, just by accident. When I opened up the book, I found the picture of Al nude in the bathtub with a pink wig. I thought she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen, outside of my wife obviously. I was so inspired to keep looking at the pictures. I brought the book back to work and then it was stolen.
DRE: Oh geez.
AZ: So I went out and bought the book again. Then about a week later it was stolen. Then I bought it again and it was stolen again. So I figure if people are stealing these books out of my office or off my coffee table, it must be something of interest to people. Then, on accident I saw the SuicideGirls on HBO Real Sex. My wife, who has impeccable taste, was watching it with me and her quote about Missy was, That bitch can shoot meaning shes a great photographer. When she pointed it out to me, I was inspired by that and then pretty much the next week I saw the Icons episode on G4. That was enough for me to pick up the phone and call Missy and say, Hey. Howd you like to do a show with the SuicideGirls playing themselves on CSI: NY? Missy, of course, was down for it. Thats how the whole thing started.
DRE: Was the reason it is on CSI: NY because thats the show that youre currently working on?
AZ: Correct. Its just the one Im on full-time. Its the one I can control more, so I figured that was the best bet. All three are my shows but I work fulltime on New York. Since its the third installment of a franchise, we can be a little more radical on this show.
I wanted to make sure that we had SuicideGirls that all got along. It was a learning curve for me in terms of that. I was really focused on getting a lot of people that were veterans and people that were from Los Angeles, so it would be easy for shooting and travel. But in the same respect I wanted to be able to give the viewers girls like Amina and Al and Fractal and Nixon. We narrowed hundreds down to about eight girls. When we did that, I went back to casting and CBS and said, Look. These girls will be acting and playing themselves. I dont want to hire girls and put tattoos on them and call them the PatBrats. If I cant use the word SuicideGirls, I dont want to do it. I wrote the outline then it got back to me that legal was very upset about any reference to websites because if you surf the website without being a member, you can still see nudity. With the whole Janet Jackson thing, were under a very difficult situation with that. So I had to de-website it but I wanted to make sure that I still got the story right and that Missy was happy with the story. When she read the first outline, she loved it. I talked to the girls probably three months ahead of shooting. I had Al come out from North Carolina. I flew Tim Kern, who does a lot of the tattoos for the SuicideGirls, from the Last Rites Tattoo parlor in New York. I wanted to make sure that the girls knew somebody besides the girls on set. Tim was also hired as a technical advisor. When the girls showed up, it was just so pleasant. I feel that the SuicideGirls are American royalty. To have 18 million people see SuicideGirls in a story thats emotionally moving and really captures their spirit makes it a special show.
DRE: Jeremy Kasten just directed Wizard of Gore with a number of SuicideGirls like Amina and Fractal.
AZ: I heard about that.
DRE: Since it is a horror movie Jeremy used special effects to make it look like Aminas leg was cut off in the movie. But you dont do anything like that in the CSI episode.
AZ: Well dont forget this is a network audience. I wanted to tell a story about a girl that at the end of the day felt trapped in the Midwest and was looking for a sense of belonging and found it in the SuicideGirls. Therefore I chose to have a girl from Wyoming who desperately wanted to get out and find her place amongst other girls like her and really tell an emotional story, but still give you the essence and the spirit of the sisterhood and what they represent. I didnt want to go for shock value or missing legs or showy tattoos. I think the website has such great cache, great style and its so classily done. Its so not about the nudity. Its about the style and the spirit of the women so I wanted to make sure that we captured that.
DRE: How much do the attitudes of the girls of the show reflect the real attitudes of the girls that are playing them?
AZ: I think pretty good. Al sometimes is perceived as being a harder, rougher individual. But she isnt. Shes a complete sweetheart. I talked with the girls by email. I watched a lot of the first tour. I talked a lot with Missy, who was involved every step of the way from wardrobe to the production meeting to script. I got notes from the girls. I addressed almost all of their notes. But again, I wasnt so worried about capturing the exact attitude of the individual, more of the spirit of what SuicideGirls represented. I made sure that they all had different sassy, naughty, interesting attitudes. What I was so amazed with was that when I came to the set, they were just so gung ho. They were so low maintenance and so high-spirited. I would tell them constantly, If I hired eight actresses in this town to do the same thing, it would be a completely different ballgame. For the most part theyd be complaining. These women from SuicideGirls didnt complain once. They went on stage. They were ready. They kicked ass. It was a dream to work with. If I could work with the SuicideGirls every day, I would.
DRE: How did they do acting-wise?
AZ: Theyre phenomenal. They had the best attitudes of any group that Ive ever been involved in with CSI. It was just really a pleasure. They were treated like gold while they were here and they all came to play. Its funny because a lot the girls dont like to wear clothes. So I constantly had to keep putting clothes back on them. One of the SuicideGirls wanted to wear something a little skimpier or that showed more breasts or more ass. I had to go in with Missy and have a talk with her and say, Look. If we do this, were going to waste film, waste money and the audience will never see it. Itll be part of the DVD. She finally played ball and put some more clothes on, but it was really the spirit of that. Also what was great is when we were taking a break, Missy would take the girls and go shoot on our sets. I walked by Nixon and she was straddled on top of a dummy. She had a saw in her hand and was sawing off the dummys head. You definitely got a laugh to yourself when you walked by and go, Wow. The SuicideGirls are definitely on the set.
DRE: Ive watched CSI: New York pretty much since the beginning and CSI since the second season. Sometimes the forensic investigators in the show could be very judgmental. Was that something that you tried to avoid in this episode?
AZ: Youre absolutely right. This was never going to be a freak show. That was very key to me. Im a creator of a franchise so I understand what Missys done and I wanted to make sure that this was captured in the perfect spirit. I didnt want to have my characters being judgmental. I kept the SuicideGirls out in front of the show, not in the back. I had my characters reinforce that spirit, rather than be judgmental towards it. To the American public, its already a bit radical. So to go radical upon radical I think is a mistake. I think finding missing legs and that kind of thing is not what we do. What we do is regard the world. Were true to it. If youre not a SuicideGirl expert, I think youll be moved by the show. Youll probably shed a tear or two. Youll have a laugh and go, Wow. Those girls have really inspired me. I want to inspire the viewers as they watch my show.
DRE: CSI obviously has long arms into pop culture. Besides this episode, do you ever see a time when a television character with tattoos and piercings could be the norm on a television show without being a freak?
AZ: I think its possible. For us, in New York, we deal with all kinds of worlds, but I think America is still a little bit conservative in terms of television. I dont think people can get too radical from week to week, but I think going into a world for an episode is definitely tolerable and thats what were doing.
DRE: What aesthetic do you think SuicideGirls is replacing or adding out there in the world?
AZ: SuicideGirls promote individuality, strength and the courage to really live as free as possible without any shame. These are unique girls and Missy has found a way to bring these unique women together via a website. Some of these girls have never even talked to each other before, but they knew of each other and youd think they were all best friends. Theres really a deep sisterhood involved in that. The courage of what they exude is so inspiring, to the viewer and to me because we do live in a very conservative time right now, especially politically and in terms of entertainment. I think a show like this is going to break a lot of barriers.
DRE: Did Missy have approval over aspects of the show?
AZ: It was a mutual respect. There wasnt a lot of No, you cant do this. I involved Missy in every step of the journey. The only difference we ever had together was when she was a little iffy about doing the creepy Carrie-like opening but I talked her into it. I said, Look. I think this is really going to be great in terms of doing an homage to Carrie. As we dumped 50 gallons of fake blood on the girls in the teaser and theyre dancing to Panteras Walk, you know that the SuicideGirls have definitely arrived on the show.
DRE: Is it a coincidence that Goth icon Edward Furlong is joining CSI this year?
AZ: Its a coincidence, but yeah, thats really awesome. Eddie did a great job. Hell be in the episode a week before the SuicideGirls one airs on October 18.
DRE: Ive spoken with the creator of The Shield, Shawn Ryan, a number of times. His show is pretty much all character development. CSI drips and drabs character development throughout a season. With the serialized drama becoming such a big thing now on television, would you like to see more of that on any of the CSIs?
AZ: No, the formula is the formula. We are a procedural drama. We do a little more character on New York than any of the other shows. Our viewers expect an element of science and mystery and as we begin to open up the characters and feature more character stuff, its an added value to an already successful franchise. But we have no intent of reinventing the wheel so to speak and making it all character-driven. Though weve been opening up the characters a bit more since were in seasons seven, five and three of the franchise.
DRE: Is that satisfying to you?
AZ: Absolutely because we were never going to abandon what the game plan is, but people do want to know more about our characters. So we emotionally invest our people into the cases and maybe learn something new about them. In the SuicideGirls episode we have a story about a girl from the Midwest trying to get into the spirit of the SuicideGirls and you have one of our characters emotionally invested and having an issue that will come out later in the season. So you have a couple different levels going there, which makes for a really good drama.
DRE: How surprised are you that the CSI shows are among the most popular shows on television?
AZ: Well, I think that were definitely in a very healthy crime cycle. I think the viewer and the world will always enjoy a great mystery and a great drama. I think that the casts have amazing chemistry and we just tell stories differently than anybody else. I think that theres a part of the show that while youre watching it, youre learning. Its captured the worlds fancy because its just great drama.
DRE: Do you have a theory why CSI: Miami is so popular overseas?
AZ: I do. I think its David Caruso. Its the fact that its colorful and sexy and young and probably captures the domain of Miami better than Vegas or New York. I think it really captures Miami and you feel like youve been there for that one hour. Thats our recipe for success.
DRE: Whats it like to have something thats such a powerful marketing tool, knowing that you could take just about anything and make it very popular?
AZ: Well now were in a very interesting time right now. Were in the Wild Wild West of multi-platform. We have a couple different tricks up our sleeves. Were not only doing a show with SuicideGirls, but we also have the actress who played Omen, whos not a real SuicideGirl, hidden on the site right now. People who are on the site will look at that and go, Oh, is she a new girl? But shes actually an actress. People who watch the show may be driven to the website. If they do that, theyll be pleasantly surprised that the girl on the show is on the site. She has a profile and pictures.
DRE: What tattoos do you have?
AZ: I have a Z in the middle of my left arm and then around it is a D for Dawson my boy, J for Jennifer my wife, A for Anthony and E for Evans, which is myself and my family with the Z in the middle.
DRE: Do you want to get more?
AZ: My wife is pregnant with our third child so Ill add one more letter which will make it like a cross. Then Ill probably do a little bit more on my sleeve.
DRE: What city is next for CSI?
AZ: At this point I think CSI: Hawaii would be great. Then maybe I can go out there and relax and my wife can sleep on a boat or something.
DRE: Do you ever see bringing SuicideGirls back for another episode?
AZ: I got an email from Al a couple days ago that said, Hey. If you ever want to bring us back, Ill definitely do it again. Well see how the response is. If the response is overwhelming, theres a possibility next season that we would bring them back. But it has to really work in the fabric of our season. Right now were still cutting the episode together. I have a feeling its going to be a big success and we hope that its everything that we dreamed it would be and hopefully this does raise big awareness for Missys brand.
DRE: When you say response, does that mean from the network or from the audience?
AZ: The audience. If we get a bump in the ratings because of the SuicideGirls, thats a good thing.
DRE: Im not an actual SuicideGirl, do you need any fat, Jewish interviewers to be on CSI: NY?
AZ: I think we have that covered. There are millions of them. We like to subscribe to the Bruckheimer School of good-looking, edgy people.
DRE: All right. Im out then.
AZ: So am I by the way.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
SuicideGirls CSI: NY episode airs October 18th at 10pm EST
Daniel Robert Epstein: How did this whole thing get started?
Anthony E. Zuiker: About three years ago, I was in a B. Dalton bookstore and I saw the hardback SuicideGirls book, just by accident. When I opened up the book, I found the picture of Al nude in the bathtub with a pink wig. I thought she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen, outside of my wife obviously. I was so inspired to keep looking at the pictures. I brought the book back to work and then it was stolen.
DRE: Oh geez.
AZ: So I went out and bought the book again. Then about a week later it was stolen. Then I bought it again and it was stolen again. So I figure if people are stealing these books out of my office or off my coffee table, it must be something of interest to people. Then, on accident I saw the SuicideGirls on HBO Real Sex. My wife, who has impeccable taste, was watching it with me and her quote about Missy was, That bitch can shoot meaning shes a great photographer. When she pointed it out to me, I was inspired by that and then pretty much the next week I saw the Icons episode on G4. That was enough for me to pick up the phone and call Missy and say, Hey. Howd you like to do a show with the SuicideGirls playing themselves on CSI: NY? Missy, of course, was down for it. Thats how the whole thing started.
DRE: Was the reason it is on CSI: NY because thats the show that youre currently working on?
AZ: Correct. Its just the one Im on full-time. Its the one I can control more, so I figured that was the best bet. All three are my shows but I work fulltime on New York. Since its the third installment of a franchise, we can be a little more radical on this show.
I wanted to make sure that we had SuicideGirls that all got along. It was a learning curve for me in terms of that. I was really focused on getting a lot of people that were veterans and people that were from Los Angeles, so it would be easy for shooting and travel. But in the same respect I wanted to be able to give the viewers girls like Amina and Al and Fractal and Nixon. We narrowed hundreds down to about eight girls. When we did that, I went back to casting and CBS and said, Look. These girls will be acting and playing themselves. I dont want to hire girls and put tattoos on them and call them the PatBrats. If I cant use the word SuicideGirls, I dont want to do it. I wrote the outline then it got back to me that legal was very upset about any reference to websites because if you surf the website without being a member, you can still see nudity. With the whole Janet Jackson thing, were under a very difficult situation with that. So I had to de-website it but I wanted to make sure that I still got the story right and that Missy was happy with the story. When she read the first outline, she loved it. I talked to the girls probably three months ahead of shooting. I had Al come out from North Carolina. I flew Tim Kern, who does a lot of the tattoos for the SuicideGirls, from the Last Rites Tattoo parlor in New York. I wanted to make sure that the girls knew somebody besides the girls on set. Tim was also hired as a technical advisor. When the girls showed up, it was just so pleasant. I feel that the SuicideGirls are American royalty. To have 18 million people see SuicideGirls in a story thats emotionally moving and really captures their spirit makes it a special show.
DRE: Jeremy Kasten just directed Wizard of Gore with a number of SuicideGirls like Amina and Fractal.
AZ: I heard about that.
DRE: Since it is a horror movie Jeremy used special effects to make it look like Aminas leg was cut off in the movie. But you dont do anything like that in the CSI episode.
AZ: Well dont forget this is a network audience. I wanted to tell a story about a girl that at the end of the day felt trapped in the Midwest and was looking for a sense of belonging and found it in the SuicideGirls. Therefore I chose to have a girl from Wyoming who desperately wanted to get out and find her place amongst other girls like her and really tell an emotional story, but still give you the essence and the spirit of the sisterhood and what they represent. I didnt want to go for shock value or missing legs or showy tattoos. I think the website has such great cache, great style and its so classily done. Its so not about the nudity. Its about the style and the spirit of the women so I wanted to make sure that we captured that.
DRE: How much do the attitudes of the girls of the show reflect the real attitudes of the girls that are playing them?
AZ: I think pretty good. Al sometimes is perceived as being a harder, rougher individual. But she isnt. Shes a complete sweetheart. I talked with the girls by email. I watched a lot of the first tour. I talked a lot with Missy, who was involved every step of the way from wardrobe to the production meeting to script. I got notes from the girls. I addressed almost all of their notes. But again, I wasnt so worried about capturing the exact attitude of the individual, more of the spirit of what SuicideGirls represented. I made sure that they all had different sassy, naughty, interesting attitudes. What I was so amazed with was that when I came to the set, they were just so gung ho. They were so low maintenance and so high-spirited. I would tell them constantly, If I hired eight actresses in this town to do the same thing, it would be a completely different ballgame. For the most part theyd be complaining. These women from SuicideGirls didnt complain once. They went on stage. They were ready. They kicked ass. It was a dream to work with. If I could work with the SuicideGirls every day, I would.
DRE: How did they do acting-wise?
AZ: Theyre phenomenal. They had the best attitudes of any group that Ive ever been involved in with CSI. It was just really a pleasure. They were treated like gold while they were here and they all came to play. Its funny because a lot the girls dont like to wear clothes. So I constantly had to keep putting clothes back on them. One of the SuicideGirls wanted to wear something a little skimpier or that showed more breasts or more ass. I had to go in with Missy and have a talk with her and say, Look. If we do this, were going to waste film, waste money and the audience will never see it. Itll be part of the DVD. She finally played ball and put some more clothes on, but it was really the spirit of that. Also what was great is when we were taking a break, Missy would take the girls and go shoot on our sets. I walked by Nixon and she was straddled on top of a dummy. She had a saw in her hand and was sawing off the dummys head. You definitely got a laugh to yourself when you walked by and go, Wow. The SuicideGirls are definitely on the set.
DRE: Ive watched CSI: New York pretty much since the beginning and CSI since the second season. Sometimes the forensic investigators in the show could be very judgmental. Was that something that you tried to avoid in this episode?
AZ: Youre absolutely right. This was never going to be a freak show. That was very key to me. Im a creator of a franchise so I understand what Missys done and I wanted to make sure that this was captured in the perfect spirit. I didnt want to have my characters being judgmental. I kept the SuicideGirls out in front of the show, not in the back. I had my characters reinforce that spirit, rather than be judgmental towards it. To the American public, its already a bit radical. So to go radical upon radical I think is a mistake. I think finding missing legs and that kind of thing is not what we do. What we do is regard the world. Were true to it. If youre not a SuicideGirl expert, I think youll be moved by the show. Youll probably shed a tear or two. Youll have a laugh and go, Wow. Those girls have really inspired me. I want to inspire the viewers as they watch my show.
DRE: CSI obviously has long arms into pop culture. Besides this episode, do you ever see a time when a television character with tattoos and piercings could be the norm on a television show without being a freak?
AZ: I think its possible. For us, in New York, we deal with all kinds of worlds, but I think America is still a little bit conservative in terms of television. I dont think people can get too radical from week to week, but I think going into a world for an episode is definitely tolerable and thats what were doing.
DRE: What aesthetic do you think SuicideGirls is replacing or adding out there in the world?
AZ: SuicideGirls promote individuality, strength and the courage to really live as free as possible without any shame. These are unique girls and Missy has found a way to bring these unique women together via a website. Some of these girls have never even talked to each other before, but they knew of each other and youd think they were all best friends. Theres really a deep sisterhood involved in that. The courage of what they exude is so inspiring, to the viewer and to me because we do live in a very conservative time right now, especially politically and in terms of entertainment. I think a show like this is going to break a lot of barriers.
DRE: Did Missy have approval over aspects of the show?
AZ: It was a mutual respect. There wasnt a lot of No, you cant do this. I involved Missy in every step of the journey. The only difference we ever had together was when she was a little iffy about doing the creepy Carrie-like opening but I talked her into it. I said, Look. I think this is really going to be great in terms of doing an homage to Carrie. As we dumped 50 gallons of fake blood on the girls in the teaser and theyre dancing to Panteras Walk, you know that the SuicideGirls have definitely arrived on the show.
DRE: Is it a coincidence that Goth icon Edward Furlong is joining CSI this year?
AZ: Its a coincidence, but yeah, thats really awesome. Eddie did a great job. Hell be in the episode a week before the SuicideGirls one airs on October 18.
DRE: Ive spoken with the creator of The Shield, Shawn Ryan, a number of times. His show is pretty much all character development. CSI drips and drabs character development throughout a season. With the serialized drama becoming such a big thing now on television, would you like to see more of that on any of the CSIs?
AZ: No, the formula is the formula. We are a procedural drama. We do a little more character on New York than any of the other shows. Our viewers expect an element of science and mystery and as we begin to open up the characters and feature more character stuff, its an added value to an already successful franchise. But we have no intent of reinventing the wheel so to speak and making it all character-driven. Though weve been opening up the characters a bit more since were in seasons seven, five and three of the franchise.
DRE: Is that satisfying to you?
AZ: Absolutely because we were never going to abandon what the game plan is, but people do want to know more about our characters. So we emotionally invest our people into the cases and maybe learn something new about them. In the SuicideGirls episode we have a story about a girl from the Midwest trying to get into the spirit of the SuicideGirls and you have one of our characters emotionally invested and having an issue that will come out later in the season. So you have a couple different levels going there, which makes for a really good drama.
DRE: How surprised are you that the CSI shows are among the most popular shows on television?
AZ: Well, I think that were definitely in a very healthy crime cycle. I think the viewer and the world will always enjoy a great mystery and a great drama. I think that the casts have amazing chemistry and we just tell stories differently than anybody else. I think that theres a part of the show that while youre watching it, youre learning. Its captured the worlds fancy because its just great drama.
DRE: Do you have a theory why CSI: Miami is so popular overseas?
AZ: I do. I think its David Caruso. Its the fact that its colorful and sexy and young and probably captures the domain of Miami better than Vegas or New York. I think it really captures Miami and you feel like youve been there for that one hour. Thats our recipe for success.
DRE: Whats it like to have something thats such a powerful marketing tool, knowing that you could take just about anything and make it very popular?
AZ: Well now were in a very interesting time right now. Were in the Wild Wild West of multi-platform. We have a couple different tricks up our sleeves. Were not only doing a show with SuicideGirls, but we also have the actress who played Omen, whos not a real SuicideGirl, hidden on the site right now. People who are on the site will look at that and go, Oh, is she a new girl? But shes actually an actress. People who watch the show may be driven to the website. If they do that, theyll be pleasantly surprised that the girl on the show is on the site. She has a profile and pictures.
DRE: What tattoos do you have?
AZ: I have a Z in the middle of my left arm and then around it is a D for Dawson my boy, J for Jennifer my wife, A for Anthony and E for Evans, which is myself and my family with the Z in the middle.
DRE: Do you want to get more?
AZ: My wife is pregnant with our third child so Ill add one more letter which will make it like a cross. Then Ill probably do a little bit more on my sleeve.
DRE: What city is next for CSI?
AZ: At this point I think CSI: Hawaii would be great. Then maybe I can go out there and relax and my wife can sleep on a boat or something.
DRE: Do you ever see bringing SuicideGirls back for another episode?
AZ: I got an email from Al a couple days ago that said, Hey. If you ever want to bring us back, Ill definitely do it again. Well see how the response is. If the response is overwhelming, theres a possibility next season that we would bring them back. But it has to really work in the fabric of our season. Right now were still cutting the episode together. I have a feeling its going to be a big success and we hope that its everything that we dreamed it would be and hopefully this does raise big awareness for Missys brand.
DRE: When you say response, does that mean from the network or from the audience?
AZ: The audience. If we get a bump in the ratings because of the SuicideGirls, thats a good thing.
DRE: Im not an actual SuicideGirl, do you need any fat, Jewish interviewers to be on CSI: NY?
AZ: I think we have that covered. There are millions of them. We like to subscribe to the Bruckheimer School of good-looking, edgy people.
DRE: All right. Im out then.
AZ: So am I by the way.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 25 of 38 COMMENTS
fitzsimmons:
I know this is old news but I never heard about it. Very cool. I'm going to see if I can find the episode. 
pervyoldguy:
CSI is crap and Suicide Girls is a sellout. Cancel my subscription.