I actually met Madeline Zima in person at the South by Southwest film festival where her new film, Crazy Eyes, premiered in March. I ended up sitting right next to her, as she took the reserved seat to my left. She was perfectly lovely and laughed throughout the film.
By midway through the film I was surprised she found it so funny though, considering many of the scenes involve what they call Struggle Fucking. Its what it sounds like, you fuck someone even while theyre struggling against you. If Zima was in the scene and she was laughing, then I guess its okay to laugh.
Crazy Eyes is a semi-autobiographical film from writer/director Adam Sherman. Lukas Haas plays Zach, an aimless hard partying drinker who becomes obsessed with Rebecca (Zima.) He calls Rebecca Crazy Eyes and pines for her even though shes made it clear shes not interested in him, hence the struggle fucking.
Now that the film is out I got to catch up with my movie date properly. Speaking by phone, Zima wasnt quite as aggressive as her character in the movie, or certainly her character Mia Lewis on TVs Californication. Zima actually revealed some vulnerable moments and had fun discussing the ins and outs of struggle fucking with me.
SuicideGirls: Im really glad to talk to you because I sat right next to you at one of the SXSW screenings.
Madeline Zima: You did? Was I doing anything super embarrassing?
SG: You were laughing it up. Did you always see Crazy Eyes as a comedy?
MZ: No. I knew that there would be funny moments because when we were filming it I was laughing so much, but I do see it as a dark comedy. I know a lot of people see it as a lot of different things but I think Lukas is hilarious in it and I think a lot of moments are so funny and Jake Busey is so funny in it.
SG: Is it more of a dark comedy than the dark comedy of Californication?
MZ: I think its right in the same vein actually. One is a slightly more intellectual brand of dark comedy and one is slightly more emotional.
SG: So Crazy Eyes is the more emotional one?
MZ: I would say so because I think it all comes from a place of really wanting to be loved and wanting to find that moment, whereas I don't know if necessarily thats the goal of Californication or thats the goal of the writers or anything.
SG: Lets talk about struggle fucking.
MZ: Okay. [Laughs]
SG: Should I try struggle fucking with the women I date?
MZ: I think its a good idea to ask before anything that is not just normal consensual sex happening, but I don't know. My personal opinion is that I think men should be more, not in a creepy way, but should be more aggressive with women because women have to fulfill so many different roles and have to be aggressive because we want to get the guy interested, or have to be feminine. If a guy likes a girl than he should go up to her and be forthright and honest if he likes her, and not be too passive.
SG: But if I ask permission, is it still struggle fucking?
MZ: Well, yes, I think so. I guess its in the role playing sort of realm. Im not really sure. I don't think Ive ever done that so I cant really comment on it.
SG: Obviously Im having a little fun with it.
MZ: I know.
SG: Do you know what Adams inspiration for struggle fucking was?
MZ: You know, I totally did blow his cover on that and thats my bad that I totally said that [in another interview.] For this interview Ill keep the secret but if you want to cross reference than youll easily find it. Im such a bigmouth, I really have to stop doing that. Also when you reveal your sources, its like a magician revealing his secret. It just loses all importance.
SG: When Crazy Eyes is the title of the movie, what did you have to do to embody that with your eyes and face?
MZ: I actually wore contacts in the movie because I happened to wear contacts to the audition. So when I got the job, I was like, Hey, I wore these at the audition. Should I wear them in the movie? Adam was like, Whatever you want to do. I was like, I think I want to wear them for the movie because maybe itll give me permission to be this much of a disaster and then I wont feel like myself so that I can have permission to be a little bit crazier.
SG: Do you have friends like these characters who are a little bit aimless and mope around talking about their relationships?
MZ: Yes. Dont you? Doesnt everybody? And dont we all have moments like this? I think thats why its so relatable. Even if you personally havent had a disaster relationship like this and been on the dark side of life, even if you havent done that, you know people who have. So absolutely.
SG: What do you say to them to help them through?
MZ: I think the best advice always in relationships or in life is be the change that you want to see, you know the Gandhi quote. Im really big on that quote and clichs and stuff. The clichs help me through and then sharing them with people. Especially in relationships, if you want your friends to be more loving, its a really good idea to be more loving in the relationship. Then youll naturally see change happening. So I was giving [a friend] relationship advice and she was like, Well, I want this and I want that. Im like, Okay, so why dont you plan a night where you get all dolled up and cook him a meal and do the thing that want to become him and see what happens. If it doesnt work, get out of the relationship.
SG: That is fantastic. That Gandhi quote was so helpful to me because once I learned that, I realized I didnt have to explain every situation I face. I can just be the example I want to be and put that out there.
MZ: Yeah, exactly.
SG: Are you still on Californication?
MZ: Im not on the show anymore, no. I would love to be on the show. Its doing so well and they promote it so much and Im sure it would be great for my career to still be on it, but Im not. I havent been on the show for years but people still think that Im on the show or associate me with it. Even if theyve seen the seasons of Californication that Im clearly not on, they always go, Are you going to be on the next season? One of the best things that one of the interviewers said to me today was, Oh, because I saw you in this it inspired me to go and start watching Californication because I like your work in this. That was the biggest compliment Ive gotten in a really long time. It made me feel really good about my work.
SG: When your debut scene is the one where you punch David Duchovny, does that make a lasting impression both on fans and people in the industry when you go to castings?
MZ: People just love it. I think most people appreciate the role reversal a little bit. Men have been picking up on women for 1000s of years. To see a woman beating up a man is sort of refreshing for both sexes. Most people are just happy that I punched David Duchovny. A lot of people really do believe that I actually punched him. Fans go, Did you really punch him? And I go, No. If you look on the credits, it says David Duchovny Executive Producer. You dont punch your boss. It just doesnt happen. Im proud of that moment even though it was the first nudity that I ever did and afterwards I was like, Did I make the right decision? Now I have to live with guys coming up to me at bars and staring right at my boobs. Now Ive just sort of assumed that everyones already seen me naked so it just doesnt mean anything anymore.
SG: Did it have that effect when you were out in public meeting guys?
MZ: Yeah, yeah. I did run into some people who were less than kind about what they said about me and felt that they could say whatever they wanted because they had seen me naked or something. So that wasnt that pleasant but at the same time, so many people appreciated it more that the good outweighed the bad. Yeah, a lot of people come up to me and ask for me to punch them or whatever. I have a good sense of humor about it.
SG: Has that passed by now?
MZ: It still happens actually. It still happens. Its shockingly bizarre but a lot more women come up to me than men whove seen it and one girl was like, Because of you, I punched my boyfriend in the face while they were having sex. Ive just relaxed and I own it now.
SG: Did you know how manipulative and aggressive that character would become when you first did the pilot?
MZ: No, I had no idea. Of course not. It was sort of difficult for me to play also because Im not like that personally so it was hard for me to justify those things. Reading the script each week was like a new surprise of how bitchy she would be and I was just sort of shocked about it. I had help. My sister helped me understand the characters on an equal level. That helped tremendously because at the time I was thinking Im not pulling it off and theyre going to fire me off the show because I didnt think I was doing a good job. Now I look back and I was like, Wow, I didnt mess it up at all.
SG: Do you feel closer to Crazy Eyes than to Mia?
MZ: Ive definitely had moments where Ive been that vulnerable and angry, but not that it lasted this long. This character is in a downward spiral and hits bottom in the movie. Ive never really hit bottom like that. I felt closer to this one because I could justify these things more easily based on the relationships of the two characters, how hes kind of shady and she doesnt really trust him and she cant really trust him. These people are a little bit easier to understand whereas on the show the character was just ruining someones life.
SG: When youre playing drunk, is it possible to go too big?
MZ: You just go big and then theyll tell you to tone it down basically.
SG: Did he?
MZ: Yeah, sometimes he did and sometimes hed be like, Okay, you have to be way drunker. But it was so fun. Its fun to play drunk and after a while you start to feel drunk. Its a powerful sense memory thing because weve all been drunk before so we know how it is. Its a very distinct feeling that you can trick your mind into believing that youre really in that state.
SG: What are you doing next?
MZ: Just auditioning, trying to get the next job.
SG: Is that an easier process now?
MZ: Its the same. Its the same until it isnt, until I dont have to audition anymore. Hopefully people see this and then I wont have to audition anymore.
Crazy Eyes is now playing.
By midway through the film I was surprised she found it so funny though, considering many of the scenes involve what they call Struggle Fucking. Its what it sounds like, you fuck someone even while theyre struggling against you. If Zima was in the scene and she was laughing, then I guess its okay to laugh.
Crazy Eyes is a semi-autobiographical film from writer/director Adam Sherman. Lukas Haas plays Zach, an aimless hard partying drinker who becomes obsessed with Rebecca (Zima.) He calls Rebecca Crazy Eyes and pines for her even though shes made it clear shes not interested in him, hence the struggle fucking.
Now that the film is out I got to catch up with my movie date properly. Speaking by phone, Zima wasnt quite as aggressive as her character in the movie, or certainly her character Mia Lewis on TVs Californication. Zima actually revealed some vulnerable moments and had fun discussing the ins and outs of struggle fucking with me.
SuicideGirls: Im really glad to talk to you because I sat right next to you at one of the SXSW screenings.
Madeline Zima: You did? Was I doing anything super embarrassing?
SG: You were laughing it up. Did you always see Crazy Eyes as a comedy?
MZ: No. I knew that there would be funny moments because when we were filming it I was laughing so much, but I do see it as a dark comedy. I know a lot of people see it as a lot of different things but I think Lukas is hilarious in it and I think a lot of moments are so funny and Jake Busey is so funny in it.
SG: Is it more of a dark comedy than the dark comedy of Californication?
MZ: I think its right in the same vein actually. One is a slightly more intellectual brand of dark comedy and one is slightly more emotional.
SG: So Crazy Eyes is the more emotional one?
MZ: I would say so because I think it all comes from a place of really wanting to be loved and wanting to find that moment, whereas I don't know if necessarily thats the goal of Californication or thats the goal of the writers or anything.
SG: Lets talk about struggle fucking.
MZ: Okay. [Laughs]
SG: Should I try struggle fucking with the women I date?
MZ: I think its a good idea to ask before anything that is not just normal consensual sex happening, but I don't know. My personal opinion is that I think men should be more, not in a creepy way, but should be more aggressive with women because women have to fulfill so many different roles and have to be aggressive because we want to get the guy interested, or have to be feminine. If a guy likes a girl than he should go up to her and be forthright and honest if he likes her, and not be too passive.
SG: But if I ask permission, is it still struggle fucking?
MZ: Well, yes, I think so. I guess its in the role playing sort of realm. Im not really sure. I don't think Ive ever done that so I cant really comment on it.
SG: Obviously Im having a little fun with it.
MZ: I know.
SG: Do you know what Adams inspiration for struggle fucking was?
MZ: You know, I totally did blow his cover on that and thats my bad that I totally said that [in another interview.] For this interview Ill keep the secret but if you want to cross reference than youll easily find it. Im such a bigmouth, I really have to stop doing that. Also when you reveal your sources, its like a magician revealing his secret. It just loses all importance.
SG: When Crazy Eyes is the title of the movie, what did you have to do to embody that with your eyes and face?
MZ: I actually wore contacts in the movie because I happened to wear contacts to the audition. So when I got the job, I was like, Hey, I wore these at the audition. Should I wear them in the movie? Adam was like, Whatever you want to do. I was like, I think I want to wear them for the movie because maybe itll give me permission to be this much of a disaster and then I wont feel like myself so that I can have permission to be a little bit crazier.
SG: Do you have friends like these characters who are a little bit aimless and mope around talking about their relationships?
MZ: Yes. Dont you? Doesnt everybody? And dont we all have moments like this? I think thats why its so relatable. Even if you personally havent had a disaster relationship like this and been on the dark side of life, even if you havent done that, you know people who have. So absolutely.
SG: What do you say to them to help them through?
MZ: I think the best advice always in relationships or in life is be the change that you want to see, you know the Gandhi quote. Im really big on that quote and clichs and stuff. The clichs help me through and then sharing them with people. Especially in relationships, if you want your friends to be more loving, its a really good idea to be more loving in the relationship. Then youll naturally see change happening. So I was giving [a friend] relationship advice and she was like, Well, I want this and I want that. Im like, Okay, so why dont you plan a night where you get all dolled up and cook him a meal and do the thing that want to become him and see what happens. If it doesnt work, get out of the relationship.
SG: That is fantastic. That Gandhi quote was so helpful to me because once I learned that, I realized I didnt have to explain every situation I face. I can just be the example I want to be and put that out there.
MZ: Yeah, exactly.
SG: Are you still on Californication?
MZ: Im not on the show anymore, no. I would love to be on the show. Its doing so well and they promote it so much and Im sure it would be great for my career to still be on it, but Im not. I havent been on the show for years but people still think that Im on the show or associate me with it. Even if theyve seen the seasons of Californication that Im clearly not on, they always go, Are you going to be on the next season? One of the best things that one of the interviewers said to me today was, Oh, because I saw you in this it inspired me to go and start watching Californication because I like your work in this. That was the biggest compliment Ive gotten in a really long time. It made me feel really good about my work.
SG: When your debut scene is the one where you punch David Duchovny, does that make a lasting impression both on fans and people in the industry when you go to castings?
MZ: People just love it. I think most people appreciate the role reversal a little bit. Men have been picking up on women for 1000s of years. To see a woman beating up a man is sort of refreshing for both sexes. Most people are just happy that I punched David Duchovny. A lot of people really do believe that I actually punched him. Fans go, Did you really punch him? And I go, No. If you look on the credits, it says David Duchovny Executive Producer. You dont punch your boss. It just doesnt happen. Im proud of that moment even though it was the first nudity that I ever did and afterwards I was like, Did I make the right decision? Now I have to live with guys coming up to me at bars and staring right at my boobs. Now Ive just sort of assumed that everyones already seen me naked so it just doesnt mean anything anymore.
SG: Did it have that effect when you were out in public meeting guys?
MZ: Yeah, yeah. I did run into some people who were less than kind about what they said about me and felt that they could say whatever they wanted because they had seen me naked or something. So that wasnt that pleasant but at the same time, so many people appreciated it more that the good outweighed the bad. Yeah, a lot of people come up to me and ask for me to punch them or whatever. I have a good sense of humor about it.
SG: Has that passed by now?
MZ: It still happens actually. It still happens. Its shockingly bizarre but a lot more women come up to me than men whove seen it and one girl was like, Because of you, I punched my boyfriend in the face while they were having sex. Ive just relaxed and I own it now.
SG: Did you know how manipulative and aggressive that character would become when you first did the pilot?
MZ: No, I had no idea. Of course not. It was sort of difficult for me to play also because Im not like that personally so it was hard for me to justify those things. Reading the script each week was like a new surprise of how bitchy she would be and I was just sort of shocked about it. I had help. My sister helped me understand the characters on an equal level. That helped tremendously because at the time I was thinking Im not pulling it off and theyre going to fire me off the show because I didnt think I was doing a good job. Now I look back and I was like, Wow, I didnt mess it up at all.
SG: Do you feel closer to Crazy Eyes than to Mia?
MZ: Ive definitely had moments where Ive been that vulnerable and angry, but not that it lasted this long. This character is in a downward spiral and hits bottom in the movie. Ive never really hit bottom like that. I felt closer to this one because I could justify these things more easily based on the relationships of the two characters, how hes kind of shady and she doesnt really trust him and she cant really trust him. These people are a little bit easier to understand whereas on the show the character was just ruining someones life.
SG: When youre playing drunk, is it possible to go too big?
MZ: You just go big and then theyll tell you to tone it down basically.
SG: Did he?
MZ: Yeah, sometimes he did and sometimes hed be like, Okay, you have to be way drunker. But it was so fun. Its fun to play drunk and after a while you start to feel drunk. Its a powerful sense memory thing because weve all been drunk before so we know how it is. Its a very distinct feeling that you can trick your mind into believing that youre really in that state.
SG: What are you doing next?
MZ: Just auditioning, trying to get the next job.
SG: Is that an easier process now?
MZ: Its the same. Its the same until it isnt, until I dont have to audition anymore. Hopefully people see this and then I wont have to audition anymore.
Crazy Eyes is now playing.