Exene Cervenka is the gold standard for what all punk rock musicians should be. She is uncompromising, self deprecating and a real renaissance woman. She of course came to fame in the 1970s with the seminal punk band X. Since then Exene has had numerous other bands and her latest, Exene Cervenka & Original Sinners, has just released their second album titled Sev7en. It features Jason Edge and members of the band The 7 Shot Screamers.
Buy Sev7en
Daniel Robert Epstein: What are you going to be doing today?
Exene Cervenka: Playing a show in Corona, California.
DRE: Is it a Sinners show?
EC: Yes, its a Sinners show. Before that Ill be doing my taxes.
DRE: Im doing them today too.
EC: At 1 oclock I have a dental appointment.
DRE: Whats wrong?
EC: Nothing.
DRE: I read that you consider The Sinners album to have a surf kind of vibe, is that true?
EC: There are some songs that have that.
DRE: What made you want to do something like that?
EC: Its an opportunity to play with my husband, Jason. I really like playing with him. We can write songs together and tour and whatnot. Then I found a really great band, called The 7 Shot Screamers, out of St. Louis that can play my songs the way I want them played. So we kind of married them. Its just fun and its different from X or The Knitters. Its harder because it doesnt have the recognition that X has, but its still really fun.
DRE: Is it harder to get people to come to the shows?
EC: Yeah, people just love X so much that it has to be really separate from that, you cant compare it. Its just a totally different world. I need a lot of stuff to do.
DRE: Why is that?
EC: Because life is short.
DRE: Is getting people to come to the shows the most difficult aspect of The Sinners?
EC: I dont find anything about it real difficult. We played our first show on this tour last night and it went fine. So I dont know about people coming or not coming. I dont know what to expect from this tour. Were doing the whole country so anything can happen. I love going on the road.
DRE: Hows writing with your husband?
EC: Its great.
DRE: You usually collaborate with the people youre with, right?
EC: Sometimes. Most of the songs on these two Original Sinners records I wrote myself. But I work with John still. Were working on an X record right now, so well see if that works out. We havent sat down with the bass yet and really worked on vocals or anything. Im really excited that theres a possibility that well be making an X record this year.
DRE: Cool. I think the label compares The Sinners to Chuck Berry. Do you see it like that?
EC: No. That was just something I said. You reach a point in your life where youre the front person and you have this rockabilly band playing behind you. Its just fun. I didnt mean it like I was comparing myself to Chuck Berry musically or anything. I just meant that you reach a point.
DRE: Do you go to a lot of shows?
EC: Not really. Im from St. Louis so I just happened to see them. Do you go to a lot of shows?
DRE: No, I get tired easily.
EC: Who have you seen that you really liked thats kind of newish?
DRE: I dont see a lot of them. I get sent a lot of CDs. So I listen to them.
EC: What about that band Arctic Monkeys that everybodys talking about?
DRE: Yeah, everyone is talking about them. I think I have the CD around here somewhere. I got to pull it out and find it. Do people press a lot of demos in your hand?
EC: Yeah. We get a lot of records from people.
DRE: Do you listen to them all?
EC: We listen to them. I like stuff thats really original. I dont like anything where you can go, Oh, that bands from Orange County. Or that band obviously listened to this. Im not a big fan of the revival of 60s garage rock. I think its good but I still have stuff that I have in my record collection from the 60s. I want to see something totally unpredictable.
DRE: How often do you see that?
EC: Never.
DRE: A lot of people say that there isnt as much punk anymore. It seems like there is, but just not a lot of them are signed or theyre not signed to big labels.
EC: Yeah, thats part of the fun of touring because The 7 Shot Screamers are opening for me. Theyre more rockabilly and they have an upright bass and stuff. When they switch over to our stuff, its like a completely different style. I really love that band so Im not going to get tired of seeing them every night. Then theres usually a local band so at least you get to see some of the scene. People do give you their records and thats really nice too because sometimes there are some really good records.
DRE: But theres nothing that youre like falling in love with.
EC: No, not since The Blasters.
DRE: When was that?
EC: 1980 but I really did fall in love with The Blasters. Literally. It takes an awful lot to fall in love with a band and that only happens like a few times in your life. I think Dexter Romweber is also someone that I just love and I would love to see him play live. Hes been around a long time with the Flat Duo Jets and all that, but I dont care. I still love him.
DRE: So will you be touring with X when the album comes out?
EC: X plays a lot of shows every year. The Knitters just put out a record last year and toured a lot. Ill probably do some touring over the summer with The Knitters and X.
DRE: When I found out how old you are I was surprised, I always forget how young you started. Do you feel like youre just hitting a certain stride?
EC: Yeah, its funny. When I was a kid, I couldnt understand why older people couldnt act their age. I was 15 and these 40 year old men would hit on me. Id be like, God. Yuck. How can you be that way? How can they be like that at that age? When youre 40, you dont know youre 40. You dont feel like youre 40. When youre 50 you dont feel like youre 50. When youre 70, you probably dont feel like youre 70 because you still like the same stuff, you still appreciate the same things in life and you still try to do the same things but not hit on young girls. Why wouldnt I want to play music until I was 80? People do it because its something they love and you dont want to stop doing it for any reason. So you feel like youre really lucky when youre in your 40s and 50s and you can still keep going. I think the age thing in rock and roll doesnt really matter any more. I think U2 and the Rolling Stones and all those bands have kind of proven that. People just love what they love and they dont care. I consider myself really lucky to still be alive and still playing music.
DRE: A lot of people are still in love with the music and who you were 30 years ago. What do you think of who you were back then?
EC: Im the same person. I wear the same things. I sing the same songs. I act the same. Im the same. I havent changed. It wasnt a false persona. That was me then, thats me now too.
DRE: Who produces The Sinners album?
EC: Me and Jason produced both records. What I really like is when the band is really tight and you get together and you play the songs and you work for about three days and get all the songs done and then they leave. They trust you because you cant have five people asking you to change the way things sound. They have to trust that someone else is going to make it sound the way its supposed to sound.
DRE: Do you get asked to ever produce other peoples albums?
EC: I have been asked a few times in the past but Im not really interested in doing that. Its not my thing.
DRE: How have people been reacting to The Sinners shows?
EC: They listened and watched more than they would in an X show because they want to hear what the songs are. So its not as pandemonium as X. But people bop around. Its different everywhere. I like all ages shows the best because I like it when kids come.
DRE: Are they all, all-ages shows?
EC: Some of them are, some of them arent. I like when they are because theres a lot of young kids that are just finding out about X and want to come see us in whatever form.
DRE: The press notes say that The Sinners album is indicative of the peace thats crept into your life. Do you really feel that way?
EC: Sure. Ive done everything I wanted to do in life. You go through life and you accept challenges and you rise to the occasion or you dont and then you pick up and move on. Id like to make another X record, but other than that I cant think of anything that I dont have that I want.
DRE: How has that effected how you work?
EC: Well you can write a song when youre having the worst day of your life and its really depressing and make this really depressing song. Then the next day just bounce back and be fine for six months. I usually write when Im sad or mad. Thats X songs. We wrote a lot of stuff when bad things happened. It doesnt mean you were desperate or that you thats all you could think about every minute of every day. It just means that you looked around at everybody and went, Wow. Life is hard. Im going to get kicked out of my apartment if I dont come up with the rent and wrote a song. Those songs arent something you live every day. Theyre moments that you get inspired by and then they become songs. But happy or sad doesnt last. Youre always up and down.
DRE: Will you have to be mad to write to write the next X record?
EC: No, were not going to try to recreate the past, but musically I want it to sound like the first four records. Lyrically, its taken all different forms so well see what happens when we get more into it.
DRE: Is your son playing music yet?
EC: Yeah, he plays. He does a lot of different things. Hes 18 and hes about to graduate from high school and go off to college. Hes got a million things going on. Im very proud of him. Hes a great student. Thats another thing that worked out. I have things that dont work out sometimes, but most of the time I push things through.
DRE: What doesnt work out?
EC: Little things. Having more money would be nice.
What Id really like is a gold record for Los Angeles. We dont have a platinum record for Wild Gift. We dont have any of that. I know weve sold at least 450,000 copies of those records because people have told me a million times that they wore out their copy. I dont understand where that fucking gold record is because I want one. I cant believe Los Angeles isnt a gold record. Its been around forever. I think Id be happy with that.
DRE: Did you hear about the Sex Pistols turning down going to the Rock and Roll Awards?
EC: Yeah. I feel differently about it. Id go. I think its an American thing. Being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is being like The Ramones or Chuck Berry. I love all those people so I would want to be with them.
DRE: You deserve it. Im sure theyll get around to it.
EC: Yeah, after were dead. Why do they wait until everyone dies before they do that? Why dont they pick people that are still alive sometimes? I know they do, but its not fair.
DRE: I agree. I think all these great bands that did such amazing stuff deserve to be in there. Maybe they should give them out more than once a year.
EC: Yeah.
DRE: I read you do art collages.
EC: Yeah. I did a bunch of art shows in the last eight months and Im still doing that. I have a gallery in New York that shows my stuff. Its really fun. I really love it. Making collages is just like gambling because when youre gambling all youre thinking about is the next card or the next roll of the dice. You cant think about your taxes. You cant think about your cat. You cant think about anything else except if those things are going to line up. Its a wonderful mental break from reality. Its the same thing with making collages because all youve got is millions of little things that youve collected and all youre thinking about is what to glue to the next piece. Its this wonderful respite from reality. All that matters is this thing youre focused on and making this beautiful piece of art. Generally it works out. Sometimes you make stuff and you go, Well, thats not so great. But Im really addicted to it because it frees my mind from other things.
DRE: Is it stuff you find on the street or junkyards or just everywhere?
EC: It used to be stuff I found on the street but Americas garbage has changed in the last 30 years. Now all you find is McDonalds wrappers. The stuff is all the same. I remember going to Philadelphia or Chicago or someplace like that and finding these weird gypsy fortune teller fliers and stuff from the 70s that now looks so cool. Now its more like building things out of what I already have. Its hard to find stuff thats distinctively weird. Also things that are really mundane, can take on this other aspect when its juxtaposed to something weird. Collages are neat because all the elements can be meaningless, but once theyre put together, then they can constitute something else.
DRE: How long have you been doing them?
EC: Ive been collecting things and waiting. I started about five years ago, but last year I finally sat down and put everything together, which is really fun. I knew I would do it someday but I just never got around to it.
DRE: You must have some pretty interesting stuff if youve been collecting all this stuff for that long. Which gallery in New York is it in?
EC: Its at DCKT Contemporary. I also had a show at this international art thing that they do every year in New York. After that I dont really have anything up anywhere else, but well see what happens.
DRE: I read about one piece that has a headless My Little Pony.
EC: Yeah. I ran over in the street. It says something but Im not sure what. You should try it. Its really fun. Go to some thrift stores and find some weird stuff and start gluing it together. Youll see what Im talking about.
DRE: I spoke to John Roecker about Live Freaky, Die Freaky. Did you have a chance to see it yet?
EC: No, I didnt. Did you?
DRE: Yeah, I did. Its really bizarre.
John told me that you and he did a book on tape of the Unabomber Manifesto.
EC: We did a little CD where I read some of the stuff from it, but it was inconsequential really.
DRE: He said the two of you own a record store.
EC: No. He had a retail store that I was kind of part of but it was more in name than anything else.
DRE: Would you want to open up a record store?
EC: No, I dont want to do that. I think that that sounds really horrible actually.
DRE: Have you heard of SuicideGirls?
EC: Yes.
DRE: It seems like the new kind of thing to do is for girls to get naked on the Internet.
EC: Yeah, I think its destroyed any chance women have to build on the Feminist gains of the 60s and 70s. I think its really sad that women have decided that theyve given into the whole sex object thing and have decided that thats the highest level they can reach in life is to be in a porno film. Im not a Feminist per se because I think it has bad connotations and I dont believe in segregation. I think Ive been an example of not having to do that and Im proud of that. But on the other hand, perhaps thats all women are. Maybe theyre just sex objects. Maybe that is the highest level they can reach in our society. As far as popular culture goes, maybe Paris Hilton is the most important thing to aspire to and maybe having a porno film of yourself and your boyfriend on the Internet is your goal in life and thats a total accomplishment for you. Maybe men are just voyeuristic adolescent idiots. Maybe thats who we really are. So if thats the case, then fine. Im not participating in it, nor would I if I was young, but its not my problem. My problem is making art.
DRE: You dont mind that were doing this interview though?
EC: No, I know that billions of people tune into that stuff. Im the oddball. Im the one thats not in the mix. I dont care if other people get naked. Im just not going to.
DRE: Was pornography something that youve always been against?
EC: Im not against it, if thats what people want to do. I dont care what other people do. Im just saying like in terms of the popular culture and me as Exene, Id rather see women in bands writing really good songs and playing music and writing books and making art and being these really interesting creatures who do all of this wonderful stuff rather than being famous for taking off their clothes. Its a little too easy to do that. Its hard to make it in the world. I think people have a lot of fun with pornography, I just dont.
DRE: Do you feel a lot of responsibility since you are such an icon?
EC: I do feel that. I also feel that since its been projected onto me by so many women over the years, I decided to go ahead and adopt that role. It wasnt something I set out to be. You hear about this with sports figures all the time. When they get in trouble, they say, I never wanted to be a role model for your kids. Dont put that on me. Or you take the responsibility and go, Jesus. Im a fucking role model for these kids. It does give you some thought about what you do. People expect a certain level of integrity or something. Its kind of who I am anyway. But when you know that people expect that from you and theyre very young, you figure, Well, someones got to be there for those kids. You dont all want to be porn stars.
DRE: Dave Chappelle has been doing a lot of interviews lately; did you ever watch his TV show?
EC: Yeah, Ive seen him live too.
DRE: He said that one of the reasons he stopped doing his show is because when they were taping they did a joke making fun of racism and there was one crew member that laughed weirdly, like he was enjoying the racism in the wrong way.
EC: He didnt get the irony. Right.
DRE: It made Dave realize that with so many people watching his show, he has more of a responsibility than to just be funny. At what point did you have this realization for yourself?
EC: It was a long time ago. Punk was founded on this whole different cultural model than what we have today. It was against the excesses of rock stars and it was against the wealthy and had all these ideals about anyone who could get on stage and play an instrument. There was no sexism and there was no racism. That was the model. When the Go-Go's went on the cover of Rolling Stone wearing just towels, I think that model got skewed. Im from a different time. Im a time traveler and I come from a time when abortion was illegal. When the civil rights happened, I was around. When rock and roll started, I was around. I respect all those people that broke through some of those sexist and racist barriers because it was really hard to do and a lot of people died doing it. So I still have that model and the punk rock model that I live by and self-respect to me is really important and respect for other people is really important. Not objectifying people is really important and not degrading people is really important because it makes for a better culture and a better society.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Buy Sev7en
Daniel Robert Epstein: What are you going to be doing today?
Exene Cervenka: Playing a show in Corona, California.
DRE: Is it a Sinners show?
EC: Yes, its a Sinners show. Before that Ill be doing my taxes.
DRE: Im doing them today too.
EC: At 1 oclock I have a dental appointment.
DRE: Whats wrong?
EC: Nothing.
DRE: I read that you consider The Sinners album to have a surf kind of vibe, is that true?
EC: There are some songs that have that.
DRE: What made you want to do something like that?
EC: Its an opportunity to play with my husband, Jason. I really like playing with him. We can write songs together and tour and whatnot. Then I found a really great band, called The 7 Shot Screamers, out of St. Louis that can play my songs the way I want them played. So we kind of married them. Its just fun and its different from X or The Knitters. Its harder because it doesnt have the recognition that X has, but its still really fun.
DRE: Is it harder to get people to come to the shows?
EC: Yeah, people just love X so much that it has to be really separate from that, you cant compare it. Its just a totally different world. I need a lot of stuff to do.
DRE: Why is that?
EC: Because life is short.
DRE: Is getting people to come to the shows the most difficult aspect of The Sinners?
EC: I dont find anything about it real difficult. We played our first show on this tour last night and it went fine. So I dont know about people coming or not coming. I dont know what to expect from this tour. Were doing the whole country so anything can happen. I love going on the road.
DRE: Hows writing with your husband?
EC: Its great.
DRE: You usually collaborate with the people youre with, right?
EC: Sometimes. Most of the songs on these two Original Sinners records I wrote myself. But I work with John still. Were working on an X record right now, so well see if that works out. We havent sat down with the bass yet and really worked on vocals or anything. Im really excited that theres a possibility that well be making an X record this year.
DRE: Cool. I think the label compares The Sinners to Chuck Berry. Do you see it like that?
EC: No. That was just something I said. You reach a point in your life where youre the front person and you have this rockabilly band playing behind you. Its just fun. I didnt mean it like I was comparing myself to Chuck Berry musically or anything. I just meant that you reach a point.
DRE: Do you go to a lot of shows?
EC: Not really. Im from St. Louis so I just happened to see them. Do you go to a lot of shows?
DRE: No, I get tired easily.
EC: Who have you seen that you really liked thats kind of newish?
DRE: I dont see a lot of them. I get sent a lot of CDs. So I listen to them.
EC: What about that band Arctic Monkeys that everybodys talking about?
DRE: Yeah, everyone is talking about them. I think I have the CD around here somewhere. I got to pull it out and find it. Do people press a lot of demos in your hand?
EC: Yeah. We get a lot of records from people.
DRE: Do you listen to them all?
EC: We listen to them. I like stuff thats really original. I dont like anything where you can go, Oh, that bands from Orange County. Or that band obviously listened to this. Im not a big fan of the revival of 60s garage rock. I think its good but I still have stuff that I have in my record collection from the 60s. I want to see something totally unpredictable.
DRE: How often do you see that?
EC: Never.
DRE: A lot of people say that there isnt as much punk anymore. It seems like there is, but just not a lot of them are signed or theyre not signed to big labels.
EC: Yeah, thats part of the fun of touring because The 7 Shot Screamers are opening for me. Theyre more rockabilly and they have an upright bass and stuff. When they switch over to our stuff, its like a completely different style. I really love that band so Im not going to get tired of seeing them every night. Then theres usually a local band so at least you get to see some of the scene. People do give you their records and thats really nice too because sometimes there are some really good records.
DRE: But theres nothing that youre like falling in love with.
EC: No, not since The Blasters.
DRE: When was that?
EC: 1980 but I really did fall in love with The Blasters. Literally. It takes an awful lot to fall in love with a band and that only happens like a few times in your life. I think Dexter Romweber is also someone that I just love and I would love to see him play live. Hes been around a long time with the Flat Duo Jets and all that, but I dont care. I still love him.
DRE: So will you be touring with X when the album comes out?
EC: X plays a lot of shows every year. The Knitters just put out a record last year and toured a lot. Ill probably do some touring over the summer with The Knitters and X.
DRE: When I found out how old you are I was surprised, I always forget how young you started. Do you feel like youre just hitting a certain stride?
EC: Yeah, its funny. When I was a kid, I couldnt understand why older people couldnt act their age. I was 15 and these 40 year old men would hit on me. Id be like, God. Yuck. How can you be that way? How can they be like that at that age? When youre 40, you dont know youre 40. You dont feel like youre 40. When youre 50 you dont feel like youre 50. When youre 70, you probably dont feel like youre 70 because you still like the same stuff, you still appreciate the same things in life and you still try to do the same things but not hit on young girls. Why wouldnt I want to play music until I was 80? People do it because its something they love and you dont want to stop doing it for any reason. So you feel like youre really lucky when youre in your 40s and 50s and you can still keep going. I think the age thing in rock and roll doesnt really matter any more. I think U2 and the Rolling Stones and all those bands have kind of proven that. People just love what they love and they dont care. I consider myself really lucky to still be alive and still playing music.
DRE: A lot of people are still in love with the music and who you were 30 years ago. What do you think of who you were back then?
EC: Im the same person. I wear the same things. I sing the same songs. I act the same. Im the same. I havent changed. It wasnt a false persona. That was me then, thats me now too.
DRE: Who produces The Sinners album?
EC: Me and Jason produced both records. What I really like is when the band is really tight and you get together and you play the songs and you work for about three days and get all the songs done and then they leave. They trust you because you cant have five people asking you to change the way things sound. They have to trust that someone else is going to make it sound the way its supposed to sound.
DRE: Do you get asked to ever produce other peoples albums?
EC: I have been asked a few times in the past but Im not really interested in doing that. Its not my thing.
DRE: How have people been reacting to The Sinners shows?
EC: They listened and watched more than they would in an X show because they want to hear what the songs are. So its not as pandemonium as X. But people bop around. Its different everywhere. I like all ages shows the best because I like it when kids come.
DRE: Are they all, all-ages shows?
EC: Some of them are, some of them arent. I like when they are because theres a lot of young kids that are just finding out about X and want to come see us in whatever form.
DRE: The press notes say that The Sinners album is indicative of the peace thats crept into your life. Do you really feel that way?
EC: Sure. Ive done everything I wanted to do in life. You go through life and you accept challenges and you rise to the occasion or you dont and then you pick up and move on. Id like to make another X record, but other than that I cant think of anything that I dont have that I want.
DRE: How has that effected how you work?
EC: Well you can write a song when youre having the worst day of your life and its really depressing and make this really depressing song. Then the next day just bounce back and be fine for six months. I usually write when Im sad or mad. Thats X songs. We wrote a lot of stuff when bad things happened. It doesnt mean you were desperate or that you thats all you could think about every minute of every day. It just means that you looked around at everybody and went, Wow. Life is hard. Im going to get kicked out of my apartment if I dont come up with the rent and wrote a song. Those songs arent something you live every day. Theyre moments that you get inspired by and then they become songs. But happy or sad doesnt last. Youre always up and down.
DRE: Will you have to be mad to write to write the next X record?
EC: No, were not going to try to recreate the past, but musically I want it to sound like the first four records. Lyrically, its taken all different forms so well see what happens when we get more into it.
DRE: Is your son playing music yet?
EC: Yeah, he plays. He does a lot of different things. Hes 18 and hes about to graduate from high school and go off to college. Hes got a million things going on. Im very proud of him. Hes a great student. Thats another thing that worked out. I have things that dont work out sometimes, but most of the time I push things through.
DRE: What doesnt work out?
EC: Little things. Having more money would be nice.
What Id really like is a gold record for Los Angeles. We dont have a platinum record for Wild Gift. We dont have any of that. I know weve sold at least 450,000 copies of those records because people have told me a million times that they wore out their copy. I dont understand where that fucking gold record is because I want one. I cant believe Los Angeles isnt a gold record. Its been around forever. I think Id be happy with that.
DRE: Did you hear about the Sex Pistols turning down going to the Rock and Roll Awards?
EC: Yeah. I feel differently about it. Id go. I think its an American thing. Being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is being like The Ramones or Chuck Berry. I love all those people so I would want to be with them.
DRE: You deserve it. Im sure theyll get around to it.
EC: Yeah, after were dead. Why do they wait until everyone dies before they do that? Why dont they pick people that are still alive sometimes? I know they do, but its not fair.
DRE: I agree. I think all these great bands that did such amazing stuff deserve to be in there. Maybe they should give them out more than once a year.
EC: Yeah.
DRE: I read you do art collages.
EC: Yeah. I did a bunch of art shows in the last eight months and Im still doing that. I have a gallery in New York that shows my stuff. Its really fun. I really love it. Making collages is just like gambling because when youre gambling all youre thinking about is the next card or the next roll of the dice. You cant think about your taxes. You cant think about your cat. You cant think about anything else except if those things are going to line up. Its a wonderful mental break from reality. Its the same thing with making collages because all youve got is millions of little things that youve collected and all youre thinking about is what to glue to the next piece. Its this wonderful respite from reality. All that matters is this thing youre focused on and making this beautiful piece of art. Generally it works out. Sometimes you make stuff and you go, Well, thats not so great. But Im really addicted to it because it frees my mind from other things.
DRE: Is it stuff you find on the street or junkyards or just everywhere?
EC: It used to be stuff I found on the street but Americas garbage has changed in the last 30 years. Now all you find is McDonalds wrappers. The stuff is all the same. I remember going to Philadelphia or Chicago or someplace like that and finding these weird gypsy fortune teller fliers and stuff from the 70s that now looks so cool. Now its more like building things out of what I already have. Its hard to find stuff thats distinctively weird. Also things that are really mundane, can take on this other aspect when its juxtaposed to something weird. Collages are neat because all the elements can be meaningless, but once theyre put together, then they can constitute something else.
DRE: How long have you been doing them?
EC: Ive been collecting things and waiting. I started about five years ago, but last year I finally sat down and put everything together, which is really fun. I knew I would do it someday but I just never got around to it.
DRE: You must have some pretty interesting stuff if youve been collecting all this stuff for that long. Which gallery in New York is it in?
EC: Its at DCKT Contemporary. I also had a show at this international art thing that they do every year in New York. After that I dont really have anything up anywhere else, but well see what happens.
DRE: I read about one piece that has a headless My Little Pony.
EC: Yeah. I ran over in the street. It says something but Im not sure what. You should try it. Its really fun. Go to some thrift stores and find some weird stuff and start gluing it together. Youll see what Im talking about.
DRE: I spoke to John Roecker about Live Freaky, Die Freaky. Did you have a chance to see it yet?
EC: No, I didnt. Did you?
DRE: Yeah, I did. Its really bizarre.
John told me that you and he did a book on tape of the Unabomber Manifesto.
EC: We did a little CD where I read some of the stuff from it, but it was inconsequential really.
DRE: He said the two of you own a record store.
EC: No. He had a retail store that I was kind of part of but it was more in name than anything else.
DRE: Would you want to open up a record store?
EC: No, I dont want to do that. I think that that sounds really horrible actually.
DRE: Have you heard of SuicideGirls?
EC: Yes.
DRE: It seems like the new kind of thing to do is for girls to get naked on the Internet.
EC: Yeah, I think its destroyed any chance women have to build on the Feminist gains of the 60s and 70s. I think its really sad that women have decided that theyve given into the whole sex object thing and have decided that thats the highest level they can reach in life is to be in a porno film. Im not a Feminist per se because I think it has bad connotations and I dont believe in segregation. I think Ive been an example of not having to do that and Im proud of that. But on the other hand, perhaps thats all women are. Maybe theyre just sex objects. Maybe that is the highest level they can reach in our society. As far as popular culture goes, maybe Paris Hilton is the most important thing to aspire to and maybe having a porno film of yourself and your boyfriend on the Internet is your goal in life and thats a total accomplishment for you. Maybe men are just voyeuristic adolescent idiots. Maybe thats who we really are. So if thats the case, then fine. Im not participating in it, nor would I if I was young, but its not my problem. My problem is making art.
DRE: You dont mind that were doing this interview though?
EC: No, I know that billions of people tune into that stuff. Im the oddball. Im the one thats not in the mix. I dont care if other people get naked. Im just not going to.
DRE: Was pornography something that youve always been against?
EC: Im not against it, if thats what people want to do. I dont care what other people do. Im just saying like in terms of the popular culture and me as Exene, Id rather see women in bands writing really good songs and playing music and writing books and making art and being these really interesting creatures who do all of this wonderful stuff rather than being famous for taking off their clothes. Its a little too easy to do that. Its hard to make it in the world. I think people have a lot of fun with pornography, I just dont.
DRE: Do you feel a lot of responsibility since you are such an icon?
EC: I do feel that. I also feel that since its been projected onto me by so many women over the years, I decided to go ahead and adopt that role. It wasnt something I set out to be. You hear about this with sports figures all the time. When they get in trouble, they say, I never wanted to be a role model for your kids. Dont put that on me. Or you take the responsibility and go, Jesus. Im a fucking role model for these kids. It does give you some thought about what you do. People expect a certain level of integrity or something. Its kind of who I am anyway. But when you know that people expect that from you and theyre very young, you figure, Well, someones got to be there for those kids. You dont all want to be porn stars.
DRE: Dave Chappelle has been doing a lot of interviews lately; did you ever watch his TV show?
EC: Yeah, Ive seen him live too.
DRE: He said that one of the reasons he stopped doing his show is because when they were taping they did a joke making fun of racism and there was one crew member that laughed weirdly, like he was enjoying the racism in the wrong way.
EC: He didnt get the irony. Right.
DRE: It made Dave realize that with so many people watching his show, he has more of a responsibility than to just be funny. At what point did you have this realization for yourself?
EC: It was a long time ago. Punk was founded on this whole different cultural model than what we have today. It was against the excesses of rock stars and it was against the wealthy and had all these ideals about anyone who could get on stage and play an instrument. There was no sexism and there was no racism. That was the model. When the Go-Go's went on the cover of Rolling Stone wearing just towels, I think that model got skewed. Im from a different time. Im a time traveler and I come from a time when abortion was illegal. When the civil rights happened, I was around. When rock and roll started, I was around. I respect all those people that broke through some of those sexist and racist barriers because it was really hard to do and a lot of people died doing it. So I still have that model and the punk rock model that I live by and self-respect to me is really important and respect for other people is really important. Not objectifying people is really important and not degrading people is really important because it makes for a better culture and a better society.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 16 of 16 COMMENTS
gun:
whatever, I don't even consider X punk or important. she's delusional. 
tohidemyhurt:
really great interview! great flow, great content. totally interesting read. liked especially her thoughts on the artistic process. so matter of fact and generous and cool. she seemed a little cynical about sg. i would say that this site is a valuable means of expression for many of the women who take part. she seems to lump it in with the general porno population, very (perhaps) unfairly. anyway, inspiring and thought provoking. thanks man.