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Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 02:31 PM

I have to say I don't like them. Is there any point in Les Claypool covering "Gin & Juice" other than to make fun of the genre? It just seems like such overly ironic white middle class condescension.

I guess my question here is, why do these people keep doing this?

walkswithbears

walkswithbears

United Kingdom
March 2003

SEP 07, 2005 02:41 PM

Mostly I agree with your condescension point, though there are some great excepetions - Luka Bloom's cover of LL Cool J's 'I Need Love', for one.

Sloane

Sloane

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 02:53 PM

I like them, but I enjoy silly cover songs and trans-genre stuff in general. I would be just as interested in hearing a hip-hop version of, I don't know, a Patsy Cline song or something.

I do see what you're saying re: ironic white middle class condescension, and I now feel sort of guilty for enjoying Dynamite Hack's Easy-E cover. But I love the cover because I always loved the original - same with Gin & Juice.

*Edited to add: In response to the question at the end of your post, I guess I can't say why someone else would do it, but I would do it for the same reason I would cover any song of any genre - I love the original and want to put my own spin on it. I think it's more interesting than just doing a straight cover, where it sounds exactly the same as the original artist's version. There's this really fun punk cover of Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young," for example, that gives an older song a more youthful appeal.

[Edited on Sep 07, 2005 by Sloane]

TANK_Ex_Mortis

TANK_Ex_Mortis

Yellow Springs, OH
January 2004

SEP 07, 2005 03:20 PM

Since I think the lyrics are ridiculous anyway, I enjoy ones like Dynamite Hack's cover of Boys In The Hood or Ben Folds's cover of Bitches Ain't Shit. Plus, I love cross-genre covers.
I'd do it because I think it's funny and it's a humorous way of pointing out how silly the lyrics are.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a hankerin' to rock out to Richard Cheese doing Nirvana.

EDIT: And shouldn't this be in the Music board?

[Edited on Sep 07, 2005 by TANK_Ex_Mortis]

waldo

waldo

I'm lost
June 2004

SEP 07, 2005 03:44 PM

I quite like The Gourds' version of "Gin + Juice".

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 04:03 PM

TANK_Ex_Mortis said:
Since I think the lyrics are ridiculous anyway, I enjoy ones like Dynamite Hack's cover of Boys In The Hood or Ben Folds's cover of Bitches Ain't Shit. Plus, I love cross-genre covers.
I'd do it because I think it's funny and it's a humorous way of pointing out how silly the lyrics are.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a hankerin' to rock out to Richard Cheese doing Nirvana.

EDIT: And shouldn't this be in the Music board?

[Edited on Sep 07, 2005 by TANK_Ex_Mortis]



Uh, as far as I know this is in the music board.

TANK_Ex_Mortis

TANK_Ex_Mortis

Yellow Springs, OH
January 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:08 PM

Thistle said:

TANK_Ex_Mortis said:
Since I think the lyrics are ridiculous anyway, I enjoy ones like Dynamite Hack's cover of Boys In The Hood or Ben Folds's cover of Bitches Ain't Shit. Plus, I love cross-genre covers.
I'd do it because I think it's funny and it's a humorous way of pointing out how silly the lyrics are.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a hankerin' to rock out to Richard Cheese doing Nirvana.

EDIT: And shouldn't this be in the Music board?

[Edited on Sep 07, 2005 by TANK_Ex_Mortis]



Uh, as far as I know this is in the music board.


Huh. So it is. surreal

Ryan_Dipietro

Ryan_Dipietro

Naples, FL
April 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:10 PM

TANK_Ex_Mortis said:

Thistle said:

TANK_Ex_Mortis said:
Since I think the lyrics are ridiculous anyway, I enjoy ones like Dynamite Hack's cover of Boys In The Hood or Ben Folds's cover of Bitches Ain't Shit. Plus, I love cross-genre covers.
I'd do it because I think it's funny and it's a humorous way of pointing out how silly the lyrics are.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a hankerin' to rock out to Richard Cheese doing Nirvana.

EDIT: And shouldn't this be in the Music board?

[Edited on Sep 07, 2005 by TANK_Ex_Mortis]



Uh, as far as I know this is in the music board.


Huh. So it is. surreal



<Insert homeschool joke here>

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 04:13 PM

So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.

Ryan_Dipietro

Ryan_Dipietro

Naples, FL
April 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:16 PM

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



The only cover of a rap song i've ever heard was NOFX's cover of "Gin and Juice". I thought it was a novel idea, but I didn't like it any better than the original. I do agree that it seems a little condescending, though.

Mr_Zero

Mr_Zero

I'm lost
September 2005

SEP 07, 2005 04:19 PM

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



Nahhh it is just your opinion.

I am sure Les is making fun of the song. I have a few mp3s here where makes fun of great songs such as Metallica - Master of Puppets and Led Zepplin - Kashmir.

Personally I love cover songs, only when they sound nothing like the original. That being said when the hell is someone gonna do a death metal version of Bon Jovi - Bad Medicine?

*wanders off to grab guitar and find someone to drum for him*

jonasgrumby

jonasgrumby

Portland, OR
April 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:23 PM

Thistle said:
I have to say I don't like them. Is there any point in Les Claypool covering "Gin & Juice" other than to make fun of the genre? It just seems like such overly ironic white middle class condescension.

I guess my question here is, why do these people keep doing this?


I'd say if there's any condescension going on in these kind of covers, it's self-directed. Although that's probably an oxymoron...

This kinda cover is more often than not a contrast between the perceived coolness of the original source material and the self-conceived lameness of the cover artist. Kinda like Eugene Levy speak/singing the lyrics of "Bad Boys" in whatever cheesy movie trailer I saw him doing that in.

SocietysPliers

SocietysPliers

Ocala, FL
October 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:24 PM

What about rap/hip hop people experimenting in other styles themselves - for instance NWA's country classic "Automobile?"

I sometimes do acoustic versions of many electric and/or synthetic songs as well as hip hop or rap songs in my shows, but not generally to make fun of anything, but rather to HAVE fun. I also make electric arrangements of acoustic stuff. A song's a song, to interpret as feels right at the time. I also do hip hop arrangements of folksy songs. That must be wrong, too, but it's still fun.

Sloane

Sloane

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 04:24 PM

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



Maybe. I don't take them very seriously, but I do see what you're saying.

Bondgirl

Bondgirl

Aberdeen, SD
February 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:29 PM

I love these types of covers!! Mostly it's because I am not taking them seriously, though.

Leanimal

Leanimal

Gainesville, FL
February 2005

SEP 07, 2005 04:30 PM

There was a local band - None Other - I think that's them - anyhoo, who did a great acoustic cover of Ludacris' "what's your fantasy" - damn, it was fucking great - but I don't think they were making fun of the song. But yeah - acoustic doesn't necessarily mean folksy so maybe I should hop to...

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:34 PM

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



I would say yeah, probably. Couldn't the same argument be made about any white artist covering any black artist and (though not to the same extent) vice-versa?

I generally look at covers as tributes to music that you like. If you put your own spin on it, more power to you.

(Of course, I could be taking this stance because I'm in the process of getting a goofy punk rock cover band together, so take that with a grain of salt.)

Chitin

Chitin

New York, NY
December 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:35 PM

Mindless Self Indulgence's cover of "Bring the Pain" wasn't condescending at all in my opinion.

Mostly because "Bring the Pain" is way less ridiculous than most of MSI's music. biggrin

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 04:38 PM

Subrosa said:

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



I would say yeah, probably. Couldn't the same argument be made about any white artist covering any black artist and (though not to the same extent) vice-versa?

I generally look at covers as tributes to music that you like. If you put your own spin on it, more power to you.

(Of course, I could be taking this stance because I'm in the process of getting a goofy punk rock cover band together, so take that with a grain of salt.)



I don't see these covers as tributes though. I see them as jokes, and the punchline is that white folk artists are not credible when it comes to singing about bitches and drive bys. It's like the joke is highlighting the extreme difference between "white" music and "black" music, making the lyrics of the "black" music seem ridiculous. I think a lot of other covers are funny and cool, but this particular genre irritates me. Maybe I just hate folk.

ApostropheNow

ApostropheNow

Skull Valley, AZ
April 2004

SEP 07, 2005 04:45 PM

I haven't heard the Les Claypool "Gin & Juice" being referred to, but I happen to know Les Claypool is a big fan of rap music. So I kind of doubt he meant to be condescending when he made it. He sings almost everything in that odd cartoony voice of his, which is one of his trademarks. So it's easy to misinterpret it as condescension. Also, though Les comes from a blue collar background, the man's a millionaire, so you can't really say he has anything to do white middle class anything.

Thistle

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

SEP 07, 2005 04:48 PM

ApostropheNow said:
I haven't heard the Les Claypool "Gin & Juice" being referred to, but I happen to know Les Claypool is a big fan of rap music. So I kind of doubt he meant to be condescending when he made it. He sings almost everything in that odd cartoony voice of his, which is one of his trademarks. So it's easy to misinterpret it as condescension. Also, though Les comes from a blue collar background, the man's a millionaire, so you can't really say he has anything to do white middle class anything.



Good points. Of course by "middle class" I don't actually mean middle income- I am more referring to bourgeois values, such as conservativism and fear of the poor. However I see what you are saying about Les's class position.

SocietysPliers

SocietysPliers

Ocala, FL
October 2004

SEP 08, 2005 06:27 PM

ApostropheNow said:
I haven't heard the Les Claypool "Gin & Juice" . . . <snip snip>


It's commonly billed as Phish or Rusted Root on sharing thingies like WinMX and stuff, but it's actually Les. There's sort of a country twang in the vocals and I believe it was meant sort of tongue in cheek, but I doubt Les meant anything condescending by it. It's sort of a bluegrass meets country style more than folk. But I never cared much for pigeonholing music anyway. When I do the Dead Kennedys' Too Drunk to F**k in a sort of country style in local redneck bars it's to turn the hicks on to punk, and I bet Les did something similar for Snoop & Dr. Dre.

On an unrelated note, I've done a solo version of Gin & Juice (before I ever heard Les' version) when poeple have requested rap or hip hop and I do it tongue-in-cheek and am well aware a 41 year old white guy is less than believable singing those words but it's fun and the requesters always seem amused. 'Course, that's different, I suppose, than releasing a single of it.

I'm a bit leery of trying to get into Claypool's mind to figure why he did it. Hell, I might get lost in there.


[Edited on Sep 08, 2005 by societyspliers]

fragment

fragment

Portland, OR
December 2004

SEP 08, 2005 11:44 PM

Thistle said:
I have to say I don't like them. Is there any point in Les Claypool covering "Gin & Juice" other than to make fun of the genre? It just seems like such overly ironic white middle class condescension.

I guess my question here is, why do these people keep doing this?



The whole "ironic cover song" thing is lame in general.

I have this realy amusing image in my head of some guy listening to hip hop and saying to his buddy, "Y'Know, I'd really like this song if it were just more... white."

FridgeMagnet

FridgeMagnet

Chicago, IL
November 2004

SEP 08, 2005 11:53 PM

Thistle said:
So is the consensus that I'm being a bit too PC in my criticism of these covers? I'm willing to accept that.



I think that Les Claypools cover of Gin and Juice is horrible. But I don't think it's condescending.

I also think that Les Claypool should stop playing so many goddamn notes.

JohnnyForeigner

JohnnyForeigner

United Kingdom
July 2003

SEP 09, 2005 12:14 AM

For one thing, it'd depend on the artist; some might be doing it condescendingly or to show how hilarious rap lyrics are, others migh do it for a genuine love of the music/admiration of the artist. Also, is rap still seen as 'black music'? A lot of my favourite rappers (Abdominal, Buck 65, Sage Francis etc) are white...

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