NEWS: You Kids Get Off My Lawn

CULTURE: You Kids Get Off My Lawn

Y'all should read Jennifer Fox's good essay, "I Was Not a Feminist." She really gets at a truth that applies even to those of us who were feminists growing up, the young woman's determination not to let her sex affect her life:

I remember thinking that way, although thankfully I've never been molested, raped, or abused. Thinking that women who complained about being discriminated against as women were pitiable, in both senses of the word: yes, they deserved compassion, but underneath that compassion was a teensy bit of contempt--it was on some level their own fault that they "chose" to give up their careers to raise kids, or to quit their jobs to follow their husband's careers, or to date jerks, or whatever. Unlike Fox, I didn't think my freedom from feminism was going to keep me from this stuff; I thought that *because* I was a feminist, I knew better.

Then I got older and learned a few things. Like that no matter what choices you make in life, you're still constrained (or advantaged) by the world around you. What are you going to do, if you have a career and a kid? How many men are really willing to quit and stay home? So you end up putting the kid in daycare, but when it gets sick, someone has to leave work and pick it up. Maybe you're willing to fight with your husband over whose turn it is, and maybe your husband is a genuinely good guy who wants to be fair--but his boss doesn't get it and he probably makes more money than you do and the kid needs to be picked up by one of you. So chances are it's going to be you, more often than it's going to be him.

Little stuff like this adds up. I had a husband who was willing to quit his career and follow me to a new job and stay home with the kid--which was awesome, and completely great of him. But of course then we had to deal with his family, and my colleagues, being "concerned" that he wasn't working, and the fact that I earned about a third of what he could. His choices are "sacrifices" and heroism--when he was working, he was "supporting me," and now that he wasn't, he was still, somehow, "supporting me." That kind of shit puts a lot of pressure on a couple, and no matter how determined you are to make your own decisions, there's doubt and spats and tension.

So whether you will or no, sexism affects your life. Your choices end up being a balancing act between the things you believe are right and the things you know will make your life a little easier. What compromises can you live with? What sacrifices do you have to make out of mercy to yourself and your partner? What shitty realities are you going to just agree to deal with, and which ones are you going to continue to fight?

Guys obviously have to deal with gender bullshit as well--obviously having his family "worry" that he wasn't working was annoying to my man, too. But the big difference between men and women is that the roles men are "supposed" to play are ones that give them economic power, and the ones women are supposed to play take it away.

Believe me or don't. Believe Jennifer Fox or don't. But keep in mind that believing a thing doesn't make it so. And that there's something to be said for experience.

Bitch_PhD thinks most Americans overrate the power of individualism.

John Lennon wrote that song.

Thank you!

It does chap a bit that I never once heard any of our elders whisper "when is she gonna get a job?" while I was supporting my wife through school... now that our roles are reversed I feel the brunt of those quiet comments... you just want to scream sometimes... "I'll get a job when I'm done with school you idiots!!!" What were they expecting? That I'd drop out (again) and go back to work as a peon in the tech industry at 1/5 my wife's salary? Do they think I'm slow?

While there is certainly some pressure that anyone feels when they are fulfilling a non-traditional role in their society... I feel like I've grown immensely as a person having had this opportunity. I have so much respect for full time parents and even more for single parents now, and I think I probably would have missed out on this perspective had I just continued working when our son was born. I'm certain that the gents I worked with would not have done anything to dissuade me from the generic societal opinion of stay-at-home-moms. Truth is, I sometimes catch a little flak from my wife (like she thinks I'm home eating bon-bons all day, haha)... but it doesn't bother me cause I know both sides of the story.

So much of that rang true for me. Please, more articles like this!

Dear BitchPHD,
This article was my favorite thing you have ever written, and I've read pretty much every article you've written on here, and many of the ones you've put on your website/blog.
I guess that's all.

I agree..lets level the playing field and tell everyone to fuck off and mind their own business..Women should be paid exactly the same as men no matter what field they are in..Good insight!

Well said Bitch_PhD.

Though I often don't agree with Bitch's ways of going about things, I agree with this one.

Fuck just pay, everything should be as equal possible.

That article was interesting, but I think the main problem women face now is internalising the sexist stereotypes that surround them. It's maybe not that they always come across barriers in the workplace; is it possible that alot of women just don't try for certain goals because it's not 'the norm', and that becomes a self-perpetuating cycle?

Still, I don't understand why women are the invisible gender. There are as many women as there are men, so why are women such an incredibly small minority, in every career from politicians to comedians to snowboarders and CEOs?

A friend who works for HSBC told me about a recent conference they went to, where there were a couple of hundred men but only two women there. A speaker at the conference, who was female, found out the names of the two women at the conference and started her talk by saying (instead of 'hello, ladies and gentlemen'), 'hello gentlemen, and Anna and Monica'.

I think the main problem is that women are socially conditioned to feel they only 'belong' in certain careers, such as teachers, nurses, artists or the lower, entry-level positions in male dominated industries.

The other part of me wonders if feminism is just acting as a 'timebomb' - in the next 10 or 20 years, the women who were educated in the more egalitarian 80s and 90s will start going after the 'top jobs' and redress the gender balance.

I agree. One of the primary keys to gender equality is equality in pay. Jenny has a good point concerning internalizing gender roles too, though. I don't know any bulemic/anorexic men, although I assume they exist, and I don't think "bigism" really compares (or body dismorphia or whatever). I think though at least to a small extent that our society is changing in regard to classifying women who are unnaturally thin as uber-sexy. I personally feel to limit beauty to any build is a disservice to the concept. Hopefully one day, but probably not for a very long time, economic equality will broaden to true equality. Not in my lifetime, though.

Are you being intentionally ironic by giving John full credit?

that's what a lot of people thought, too--that it was just a "pipeline" problem and now that all these girls raised to believe they can do anything they set their minds to are going to come busting through the gates and take the fuck over.

but now that my generation (educated in the 80s/90s) is in the workforce, i realize the problem is that the same inequalities that fundamentally affect women are still in place. employers assume women are going to get married and switch to part time (or quit entirely) once they have kids and are thus less likely to put women in the "top jobs" in the first place, thinking that women don't prioritize work. very few men ever take paternity leave, and the ones who do may be thought of by their colleagues as lazy.

the workplace is still organized around men, which itself drives women out. when women face the same hurdles they have been and try to walk that famous family-career balance and find it too difficult, they're opting out, leaving the men in the "top jobs" (the kind that demand availability to work 24/7), so nothing is really changing.

Hah, I actually forgot that was from when he was with Yoko. What can I say; it was late.

I am sure those are factors but add to the equilibrium a few more.

There is also that previous generations are still in powerful positions. We still haven't had a post-boomer president, only presidents from the time of 2nd wave feminism's inception. Same with CEO's etc. They weren't raised under 2nd wave feminism like people my age and younger. They could have views that entirely disagree with 2nd wave feminism and as long as they don't wave them around they can remain in power.

Also another contributing factor...

Link

i agree, those are good points as well.
i have my doubts about second-wave feminism doing us any favors, though. it seems to have largely alienated my generation.

I constant wonder about this too.

I wonder when is a woman going to ask ME out, buy me a drink, engage in conversation with ME. When she going to pay for MY meals, and buy ME gifts. When will she ask ME to stay over HER place. When is a woman going to stop hiding behind the hypocritical "I just want a good guy, but I will not go out with out because you are not handsome or 'bad boy' enough for my ridiculously high expectations" shield. will it be a woman isn't going to be disgusted when she slaps a man that he grabs her wrist. I wonder, and realize that some things won't change because some things are accepted as "ok to be unequal."

Now, some of that is tongue-in-cheek, but I do wonder about why some "age old" issues are clung to so fervently, while others are spat upon with disgust. Raised by a single mother who was abused by TWO husbands, I agree 100% women should be treat, paid, and respected the same as men. One of my happiest moments is when, after my law school graduation ceremony, my grandfather said, "There seemed to be a lot of women..." I was thinking, "Heck yea, because I'm entering a field where there has been SOME movement, and a school that is progressive thinking." However, I think part of that movement entails the loosening of ALL biased practices, and not just the distasteful ones. As long as bigoted men can hide behind the shield of 'partial equality," things will never fully change.

Thank you for the eloquent presentation of your viewpoint. It will be nice to point back to this the next time one of your articles engenders (lol) some 9-page missed-the-point Fest.

Agreed. Just like all other "sects" of society that push the concept of "equality through division." The best way to enact change is to push how SIMILAR everyone is, not to point out the differences and demand to be treated the same DESPITE those differences. When people start seeing other people as similar instead of seeing what makes people different is when change will truly take hold. It is possible, is only we can take the American "stew' and turn it into a true "melting pot."

i've either done or know plenty of women who regularly do all of those things, so i think it's getting better than it used to be. unfortunately there are guys who are put off when a woman asks them out or tries to pay for something on a date. i've had dates where i simply tried to pay for myself and the guy got all weird and defensive. this was particularly bizarre considering we were both in college (prompting my "i can spend my parents' money just as well as you can" response).

it's just going to take time for some of the archaic dating conventions to go away (or at least become less frequent).

of course, i will clarify that emphasizing "sameness" is not going to work with eliminating gender inequalities when the standard is still that of a man. the key is recognizing differences and handling them without difference being perceived as inferior.

Well, the dating thing doesn't kill me. I've always paid for everything, even months and years into relationships, even to the point of paying for things they should REALLY pay for. It's called 'being a sucker." Still, it is worth mentioning that MANY woman, even feminists, do not have a problem with those pracitces, because they BENEFIT from them. It allows guys to see woman as hypocrits, and refuse to be more progressive with their mindsets.

On a personal 'gripping" note, I'm more bothered by the hoops one must go through to PLEASE a woman enough to date her, even a first casual one. It's the double standard of the TRUE archaic notion that guys are these superficial assholes, and woman are enlightened. I find woman are MUCH more likely to reject a guy because he doesn't fit in their rigid standards; not tall enough, not handsome enough, not funny enough, eyes are the wrong shade of blue, not who I "envisioned' myself with. Sure, once 'in" men might be the bigger jerks, but I don't know many men that won't at least go on the first date, even the second, to try and see how things work. This makes most of the men I know become jaded, and facilitates the slippery slope to pure misogyny.

Feminism is good so long as it gives women more choices and makes them the equals of men in respect to rights, job choices, and pay. However I watched this one special on CNN where this older feminist was talking about how she had given up having a husband and a family so she could have a very successfully career. The women felt like a pioneer and helping advance equality for women. And frankly she was right, she did take a stand when many women were given no other choice then to marry and raise a family. But what I didn't like about her was the fact she was angry because she felt that some women were betraying her and feminism. Specifically she was angry at a group of women who had very successful careers, some of which were even executives at major companies, and they gave it up to stay home and raise their children. I think that is where feminism can fault. It is only a means to an end in which women have the freedom to choose and not be discriminated against. If you use feminism to try and restrict women's choices, like not wanting them to stay home an raise children, feminism becomes no better then the arbitrary and discriminatory cultural norms it sought to replace.