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MissTyrios

misstyrios

NEWSWIRE

Allston, MA

SEP 07, 2005 11:06 PM

Gas prices across the country have been going up for months, and have spiked in recent weeks, mostly attributed to the hurricane devastation along the Gulf Coast. Here in Boston, the cheapest gas I can find is $3.19 per gallon, but other stations a few blocks away are advertising prices as high as $3.45. There are other states, I'm sure, where prices are even higher. So just what is going on, and is it really going to cost this much to drive to work and school for a long time? The Boston Globe has broken down some of the issues in a clear question and answer format. Though aimed towards Massachusetts in some ways, it's a good overview for consumers everywhere. Even for those people who don't drive, the price of fuel is obviously affecting the shipment and production of a lot of goods and services, so it's a concern a prevalent issue for anyone right now.

Q. Are prices going to keep climbing? If so, how high?

A. The collective wisdom of the financial markets is that the worst is over. Wholesale gas prices fell nearly 13 cents a gallon in New York commodity trading yesterday, reflecting traders' conclusion that promised shipments of gas from Europe and progress restoring Gulf Coast pipelines and refineries will ease the supply crunch and lower prices in coming weeks, oil analysts say.

But the market remains skittish. A disruption anywhere from Texas to Venezuela to Norway to Iraq could send prices soaring again.

Q. What about pump prices in Massachusetts?

A. The Oil Price Information Service, a market-analysis firm, estimated retail gas sold in the state dropped 2.5 cents yesterday compared to Monday, to $3.16 per gallon, based on a computerized sample of credit-card transactions.

Q. Will prices fall back to where they were before Katrina anytime soon?

A. It's hard to say when that could happen because of the current volatility in the market, analysts say.

Q. Why have some stations been able to lower prices, and why do stations charge such wildly different prices?

A. Probably the best way of summing it comes from Sarah Emerson, managing director of Energy Security Analysis Inc., a Wakefield consulting firm: ''Every gas station has a slightly different story in terms of their supply line, and that means they have different prices."

Some of the factors include whether stations:

Get supply under long-term contracts from a big oil company like Exxon Mobil Corp. or Royal Dutch Shell Group, or whether they shop on the volatile spot market through independent suppliers called ''jobbers."

Are geographically isolated or have several competitors nearby whose prices they need to match, either to keep competitive or avoid getting bought dry if they're much cheaper than the station across the street.

Have big storage tanks that accommodate seven to 10 days' worth of inventory, which can keep price changes a little smoother, or rely -- as many do -- on nightly or every-other-day tanker runs, which makes pump prices as volatile as the market.

Q. Usually name-brand stations charge a lot more than the little guys, but that's changed in recent days. What gives?

A. More than half the gasoline sold in Massachusetts is supplied by jobbers who rely on the spot market for their supplies, according to John Quinn, executive director of the Massachusetts Petroleum Council, which represents big oil.

That has contributed to what Quinn called a strange ''inversion" in the market in recent days. Name-brand Mobil, Shell, Citgo, and Hess stations that are supplied under huge long-term contracts are often charging notably less than ''no-name" outlets like Jack's Gas in North Cambridge or Friendly Barry's in Dracut.

Usually the no-name filling stations can undercut the so-called majors because they have much lower marketing and overhead, but they're far more dependent on the spot markets and have been stung by recent wholesale spikes.

Q. But aren't the big oil companies just dictating prices?

A. Under federal law, oil companies like Mobil and Texaco can't tell franchisees and independent dealers what to charge. They only control the small minority of company-owned gas stations. That can explain why gas stations bearing the same brand name vary by many cents per gallon in price.

Q. Pump prices went up sharply overnight after Katrina. How can gas station owners justify raising the price 50 cents a gallon for fuel they've already bought that's sitting in their tanks?

A. To make sure they can afford the next load of gas coming tomorrow or next week, station owners say. In a notoriously low-margin business where lottery tickets and cigarettes are far more profitable than gas, few station owners have much working capital on hand, so they need to raise prices on today's gallon of gas to pay for next week's price increase, said Tom Pickett, owner of Arthur's Sunoco in Dorchester.

''Your next delivery is going to cost $10,000 more, and then what happens if the price goes down?" said Paul O'Connell, executive director of the New England Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. ''You can't stay 30 or 40 cents ahead of the competition. It's a tough game right now."

Q. Do the high gas prices reflect illegal gouging?

A. Massachusetts Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly's office fielded just 32 complaints from consumers about high prices this week and has no clear evidence of price-gouging to prosecute, aides said.

Soaring wholesale prices, some federal officials say, just reflect a functioning free market sending the right price signals that will encourage producers, refiners, and shippers to rush supply back in to make up for what's been sidelined by Katrina. The armada of tankers carrying gasoline from overseas is evidence of that.

The chief economist for the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, James Overdahl, says: ''Energy prices are being set fairly in an open and competitive environment."

Vaux

Vaux

I'm lost
January 2008

SEP 08, 2005 06:11 AM

frown

bones_708

bones_708

Houston, TX
December 2004

SEP 08, 2005 06:25 AM

Gas in Houston has almost come down to pre-Katrina prices. Only off by about 10 cents or so.

erleichda

erleichda

Germany
May 2003

SEP 08, 2005 06:26 AM

In Germany the gallon costs about 6,50 US Dollars. frown frown

mellisa

mellisa

Chicago, IL
March 2005

SEP 08, 2005 06:52 AM

3.85 in chicago. but gas isnt the only thing that will be going up. take into consideration that 75% of coffee imported here is stored in LA, along with over half of the poulty farms, so coffee, chicken and egg production and supplies have been wiped as well. groceries will be going up sharply, even if gas does come down eventually. gas was on the rise before this, here in chicago it was almost 3 dollars before this tradigy.

however if you look at our gas prices compared to some other parts of the world, even at 3.50 a gallon we still have it pretty good.

Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48
Norway Oslo $6.27
Italy Milan $5.96
Denmark Copenhagen $5.93
Belgium Brussels $5.91
Sweden Stockholm $5.80
United Kingdom London $5.79
Germany Frankfurt $5.57
France Paris $5.54
Portugal Lisbon $5.35
Hungary Budapest $4.94
Luxembourg $4.82
Croatia Zagreb $4.81
Ireland Dublin $4.78
Switzerland Geneva $4.74
Spain Madrid $4.55
Japan Tokyo $4.24
Czech Republic Prague $4.19
Romania Bucharest $4.09
Andorra $4.08

and those are the normal prices having nothing at all to do with Katrina.

ouch blackeyed

Insomniphobiac

insomniphobiac

United Kingdom
June 2004

SEP 08, 2005 06:55 AM

This is why I don't drive

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

SEP 08, 2005 06:59 AM

katermueller said:
In Germany the gallon costs about 6,50 US Dollars. frown frown



but you can drive all the way across the country on a couple of (u.s.) gallons.

I'm just thankful my car doesn't run on redbull ! biggrin

lowroller

lowroller

Australia
May 2008

SEP 08, 2005 07:00 AM

Anyone wanna buy a used car? I can't afford petrol. frown

TheSinner

TheSinner

Seattle, WA
October 2004

SEP 08, 2005 07:13 AM

chainlink said:

katermueller said:
In Germany the gallon costs about 6,50 US Dollars. frown frown



but you can drive all the way across the country on a couple of (u.s.) gallons.

I'm just thankful my car doesn't run on redbull ! biggrin



Yes!! That would suck.
biggrin biggrin

One_Pure_Thought

One_Pure_Thought

East Greenwich, RI
October 2003

SEP 08, 2005 07:20 AM

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.



I don't feel like my money is inflated, I feel poor.

Regardless if there is no foul play going on, My family just bought a house and they're worried if they can pay for it with the way all their money is going towards powering cars and heating the house.

There are going to be a lot of casualties if these prices sustain.

misguidedd

misguidedd

Edmonton, AB
November 2003

SEP 08, 2005 07:27 AM

What a bunch of B.S. This happened overnight in Canada as well, and here in Alberta, we drill/extract all of our OWN oil and gas; I believe less than 5% of oil and gas used in Canada is imported. So there was no reason for us to see a 30% jump in gas prices the very night of Katrina. Especially since, even if we WERE importing our gas, the ACTAL price COST difference wouldn't filter through the system for weeks. No, I don't buy it. Gas prices are based on speculation and hoarding, and screwing consumers who have no equally convenient alternative, rather than anything to do with supply.

PurpleMongoose

PurpleMongoose

Savannah, GA
March 2005

SEP 08, 2005 07:51 AM

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.





ah, how nice to ear some truth. that q&a sounded like some bullshit. did anyone else have the feeling it was trying to soothe the consumer into accepting this crap and preparing us for higher prices?

bones_708

bones_708

Houston, TX
December 2004

SEP 08, 2005 08:15 AM

misguided said:
What a bunch of B.S. This happened overnight in Canada as well, and here in Alberta, we drill/extract all of our OWN oil and gas; I believe less than 5% of oil and gas used in Canada is imported. So there was no reason for us to see a 30% jump in gas prices the very night of Katrina. Especially since, even if we WERE importing our gas, the ACTAL price COST difference wouldn't filter through the system for weeks. No, I don't buy it. Gas prices are based on speculation and hoarding, and screwing consumers who have no equally convenient alternative, rather than anything to do with supply.


Based on speculation would be right. Oil is a commodity just like pork bellies and when the cost goes up eveywhere else it will go up anywhere that have a gov owned/controlled industry. You may produce your own oil but the price around the globe does affect your cost. Why shouldn't an oil producer sell his product down south if he gets a better price? Prices are an effect of the market.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

SEP 08, 2005 08:24 AM

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.



fairly accurate.

and of course, inflation makes interest rates higher...so there's more to pay the banks if and when people have to borrow money...

i think the short story on this is: WE ARE SCREWED.

there is no easy fix for such massive fiduciary fuckups.

Helter

Helter

Chester, PA
OLD SKOOL

SEP 08, 2005 08:57 AM

misguided said:
What a bunch of B.S. This happened overnight in Canada as well, and here in Alberta, we drill/extract all of our OWN oil and gas; I believe less than 5% of oil and gas used in Canada is imported. So there was no reason for us to see a 30% jump in gas prices the very night of Katrina. Especially since, even if we WERE importing our gas, the ACTAL price COST difference wouldn't filter through the system for weeks. No, I don't buy it. Gas prices are based on speculation and hoarding, and screwing consumers who have no equally convenient alternative, rather than anything to do with supply.



what an apt name...

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

SEP 08, 2005 09:33 AM

PurpleMongoose said:

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.





ah, how nice to ear some truth. that q&a sounded like some bullshit. did anyone else have the feeling it was trying to soothe the consumer into accepting this crap and preparing us for higher prices?




Oh hell yeah. It's works like a litmus test. You think if they realize you'll pay 3.50 a gallon and just grumble about it a little bit that they will ever lower the price back down ??
Does anyone know what gas cost before GWB took office ?( not that it should have been static but ) I think they've been crankin the price up all along just pushin it as far as they believe they can. Any excuse will do. Now they got a great one to jack it like mad. If you'll pay 10 bucks a gallon without stormin the Whitehouse with torches and pitchforks thats what they're gonna charge you.

* polishes his pitchfork *

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

SEP 08, 2005 09:50 AM

Monastrell said:

PurpleMongoose said:

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.





ah, how nice to ear some truth. that q&a sounded like some bullshit. did anyone else have the feeling it was trying to soothe the consumer into accepting this crap and preparing us for higher prices?



Oil is a perfect disguise for the inflation. There is an entire propaganda campaign being waged to resign the public into acceptance for devalued currency, by cloaking it in "oil prices".

Your dollar buys less, and consequently, it takes more of them to buy a gallon of gas. Your dollar buys less - because the Federal Reserve's printing machines are running at full capacity to temporarily provide the illusion of fiscal solvency in an insolvent government, the illusion of abundance, and the illusion of consumer confidence and activity.



No, Monsastrell. The rise in energy prices recently are largely just a function of supply and demand. If it wasn't we'd see inflation in other consumer goods at the same rate we've seen inflation in energy prices. If what your saying is true, why wouldn't we? I mean, we use the same money we use for gas for food and DVDs and whatever else people buy. But we're not seeing the prices of those other goods rise as much as gas.

Not to say you're not basically right about the constant inflation of the money supply, but that's needed to keep the economy expanding.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

SEP 08, 2005 09:55 AM

Re: the posts about gas prices in Europe: the thing about gas in Europe is that, as I understand it, the government taxes the hell out of gas in an effort to get people to use public transportation instead, or at least use fuel-efficient vehicles.

And, as it happens, everywhere I've been in Europe had mass transit of a scale and usefulness unheard of here in the States. So much the better way to go.

witchhunter

witchhunter

Jackson, TN
February 2003

SEP 08, 2005 10:05 AM

stockula said:

Monastrell said:

PurpleMongoose said:

Monastrell said:
Because the petroleom/gasoline prices are a ruse.

People are much more willing to accept the line that "the cost of everything is rising because everything depends on oil", when the reality is that the purchasing power of your dollar is being reduced by the Federal Reserve and Dept. of Treasury inflating your money beyond recognition.

Our government is doing what all countries with a fiat currency do while in fiscal crisis .... they are merely printing more money out of thin air to cover the cost of their wars, Congressional fiscal irresponsibility, and massive debt spending.

Their official policy is "We need more money - so, uhhhhh, let's make there be more." Inflating the currency is a technique to delay the inevitable : by buying time, permitting continued spending, making the economy appear superficially active, consumer confidence high, and disguising the serious problems of our economy since 9/11 .... which will only now be exacerbated by Hurricane Katrina.





ah, how nice to ear some truth. that q&a sounded like some bullshit. did anyone else have the feeling it was trying to soothe the consumer into accepting this crap and preparing us for higher prices?



Oil is a perfect disguise for the inflation. There is an entire propaganda campaign being waged to resign the public into acceptance for devalued currency, by cloaking it in "oil prices".

Your dollar buys less, and consequently, it takes more of them to buy a gallon of gas. Your dollar buys less - because the Federal Reserve's printing machines are running at full capacity to temporarily provide the illusion of fiscal solvency in an insolvent government, the illusion of abundance, and the illusion of consumer confidence and activity.



No, Monsastrell. The rise in energy prices recently are largely just a function of supply and demand. If it wasn't we'd see inflation in other consumer goods at the same rate we've seen inflation in energy prices. If what your saying is true, why wouldn't we? I mean, we use the same money we use for gas for food and DVDs and whatever else people buy. But we're not seeing the prices of those other goods rise as much as gas.

Not to say you're not basically right about the constant inflation of the money supply, but that's needed to keep the economy expanding.



The oil companies have been purposfully lowering supply to increase demand, and price. It has been happening for years now. It is a shame that our administration is shacked up with the fuckers who are holding us up at the pumps. mad

StarBelliedBoy

StarBelliedBoy

Philadelphia, PA
December 2003

SEP 08, 2005 10:12 AM

Ok, I'm gonna say people need to start giving up a little documentation for all the claims they're making...

Back your shit up!

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 08, 2005 10:36 AM

malkav11 said:
Re: the posts about gas prices in Europe: the thing about gas in Europe is that, as I understand it, the government taxes the hell out of gas in an effort to get people to use public transportation instead, or at least use fuel-efficient vehicles.

And, as it happens, everywhere I've been in Europe had mass transit of a scale and usefulness unheard of here in the States. So much the better way to go.


Yep. Comparing the European and Japanese markets with America is ridiculous, because they're so incredibly different on every level it's staggering. Besides the tax issue, how many households in Japan or Europe drive 20,000 miles a year? Not many, I'd wager. The household average for the US in 2001 was 21,252 (13,783 miles per person). By comparison, in Britain, during the same time period, the average distance travelled by car per person was 5,354 miles. Germany is about the same as Britain, and Japan is far lower.

If I see another person say "Yeah, but look how bad it is in Europe and Japan," I'm going to puke.

PixelPimp

PixelPimp

New York, NY
May 2005

SEP 08, 2005 10:57 AM

bean said:
Yep. Comparing the European and Japanese markets with America is ridiculous, because they're so incredibly different on every level it's staggering. Besides the tax issue, how many households in Japan or Europe drive 20,000 miles a year? Not many, I'd wager. The household average for the US in 2001 was 21,252 (13,783 miles per person). By comparison, in Britain, during the same time period, the average distance travelled by car per person was 5,354 miles. Germany is about the same as Britain, and Japan is far lower.



Well, maybe it's a good time for Americans to finally get off our fat (60% overweight) asses and walk, bike, or take public transportation.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 08, 2005 11:36 AM

PixelPimp said:

bean said:
Yep. Comparing the European and Japanese markets with America is ridiculous, because they're so incredibly different on every level it's staggering. Besides the tax issue, how many households in Japan or Europe drive 20,000 miles a year? Not many, I'd wager. The household average for the US in 2001 was 21,252 (13,783 miles per person). By comparison, in Britain, during the same time period, the average distance travelled by car per person was 5,354 miles. Germany is about the same as Britain, and Japan is far lower.



Well, maybe it's a good time for Americans to finally get off our fat (60% overweight) asses and walk, bike, or take public transportation.


I think you're overlooking the fact that that's simply not an option in many places. Public transportation, even in many major metropolitan areas, sucks ass because we've got widely distributed cities (the less dense a city is, the less feasible widespread public transportation is). Nevermind the fact that only 68% of the US population is located in urban areas (where urban is defined as denser than 500 people per square mile) and 21% live in rural areas (population centers with less than 2500 people). Public transportation is nonexistent for a large chunk of the US population and less than adequate for tens of millions of people.

Yes, more people could and should commute via public transit. But building and maintaining reliable, usable, efficient public transit is expensive and time consuming, plus we've got a greater rural population distribution than most other industrialized nations which makes it difficult to suggest that that's a solution for everyone. In LA, they've been extending light rail lines throughout the county for a couple decades now, but it's still nowhere near able to work for most of the residents of the city. LA is far too scattered to make public transit usable for even 1/3 of the city's residents.

If we really want to encourage people to drive less, we have to build denser population centers, and that doesn't seem like something many people want to do (though, due to population increases and a lack of housing, that's probably a reality we'll have to face in the coming years).

In any case, none of this makes my point (that the markets are not comparable and that people who say "but look at how expensive it is in Europe and Japan!" don't fully grasp what they're talking about) any less valid.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

SEP 08, 2005 11:45 AM

This may be the first thread ever where I agree with Bones and Stockula simultaneously.

Also, what Bean said.

Lyxzen

Lyxzen

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

SEP 08, 2005 11:48 AM

im kind of glad my car is broken &couldnt drive if i wanted to...criminy!

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