the complete uselessness of vivisection

As opposed to just giving it to humans, untested, to see if it worked? I'd feel pretty bad for the people who are allergic to penicillin and wouldn't find out until they swelled up like balloons and possibly died during the clinical trials.

We've got this really potent, highly specific anti-tumor compound at the place where I work that we haven't tested on anything yet. The last version killed a whole bunch of mice, which is how we figured out that it needed to be retooled. Come by around 10 tomorrow and we'll give you a shot. Deal?

Yes, lets stop every single research dollar in all of society and make them give it to social programs instead.

Its not like the lack of technological advancement will lead to global stagnation or anything.
Or the fact that medical science is already on a downward spiral attempting to outwit ever more powerful diseases wont be a problem either, because you wont have to find medical insurance.

What's it like in the land of black and white?

Wholly leaps of logic Batman!

I wouldn't be suprised to eventually see medical testing done using cloned tissues and human trials where risk is deemed minimal however there is still a long way to go with cloning technologies before that is a feasible reality.

Oh and yeah I have specified that in the case of my death all bodily organs that can be salavaged should be used to help other people... seriously what use do I have for them when I am dead.

I urge everyone else to do the same thing, just remember to inform your loved ones about the choice you have made so they have no shocks and delay the process in the eventuality or your death.

Failing that yeah donate your corpse to science. I know a number of med school students that would be most thankful for the gift.

You missed the point of that. (So I assume, anyway. I didn't post it)

You are coming off like some 13-year old who just made AMAZING new friends at a PETA meeting. LIKE WOW THEY NOW SOE MUCH ABOUT LIFE! HILLARY DUFF LUVVVVSSSS ANIMALS!!!@

Passion is good. Passion works. Passion does not excuse you from using facts and logic, instead of empty rhetoric. Question information before you parrot it. Penicillin would kill one type of animal? Interesting. Maybe you should find out how that fits into a larger drug testing protocol. The fact is, Penicillin can have really bad reactions in people, too.

Animal testing is NEVER needed? Is that right? Better you should find specific, point-by-point replacement methodologies, and post information about that, than just tell us it's never needed and expect us to agree and take up your banner simply because of your passion.

Did you actually say "you suck"? Jesus, grow up.

Coulda fooled me -- your anti-intellectualism, your towering ignorance of anything beyond the tip of your nose, and your apparent inability to comrephend, let along apply, anything approaching facts and logic all scream mindless junior high brat.

Nice delusion there. Your monomaniacal attachment to charismatic megafauna doesn't make you a good or worthwhile person. You may learn that someday... or not.

PS -- the rebel without a clue thing is SO 80s

[Edited on Aug 26, 2005 by plonk]

In Vitro Research

Rather than hoping that an animal will respond like a human, in vitro research is conducted in an external, controlled environment, such as a test tube or a petri dish. Because most illnesses do their work at a microscopic level, these experiments make ideal test beds for studying the course of human disease. Not only are in vitro tests more humane than killing animals by exposing them to experiments, but they have been shown to more accurately produce results which correlate from the laboratory to real life as well.

Toxicity tests using human cell cultures are two to three times more accurate than tests on rats and mice.

Penicillin and streptomycin are historical examples of in vitro discovery, and there have been thousands since. Today¹s in vitro technology enables researchers to receive accurate information from as many as 100,000 compounds per day.

http://www.vivisectioninfo.org/tech.html

Post-Marketing Drug Surveillance

Post-marketing drug surveillance (PMDS) is a system of reporting all the effects and side effects of a medication after it has been released to the public. With this practice in effect, health professionals could detect and prevent the dangers of negative drug reactions. In addition, PMDS could also increase the likelihood of finding new uses for existing drugs.

Unfortunately, PMDS is not mandatory, and physicians infrequently report side effects to monitoring agencies. Therefore, it is impossible to compile comprehensive data on a drug¹s potential for negative reactions. If PMDS was mandatory, we would gather valuable information about drugs much more quickly. Getting this information sooner would mean many more people spared from dangerous side effects, some of which have proven deadly.

No, really, stop by the labs and I'll shoot you up. When you die in a few hours like the lab rats did, I'll be sure to report it to the PMDS people.

PMDS is nice, and practiced a lot more widely than whatever dipshit source you copied your little treatise from, but it does nothing to help discover drug toxicity when the method of action for the toxic effect isn't previously known. Kinda like the compound that killed all those lab rats.

You're not really this thick, are you?

cool, thanks

I think the question here, however, is whether the debate will become moot by virtue of incoherent screeds surrounding debatable statements of 'fact' copied verbatim from websites that mostly serve to preach to the converted. It's not that I or, I suspect, most of the people in this thread oppose the end of animal testing, it's that some of our fellow proponents of ending it lack a little in the delivery.

Except for plonk. I'm pretty sure he eats babies.

[Edited on Aug 26, 2005 by adjunct]

Word.

What else do expect from people that swallow the shit spewed forth by the likes of the "faux news" propaganda machine. In the age of the 3 second sound bite most people don't have an opinion on anything until they are told to.

Amen, but in the meantime could you try and cultivate more cogent allies?

...off to fix a vegetarian, but not vegan snack...