the complete uselessness of vivisection

Is anyone else completely appalled about the so-called "research" done on animals? It does absolutely nothing to help us, in actuality, it hurts us...so much money gone to making animals insane "for our benefit" when actually the money used should be going to welfare programs to really help us...so many people have no medical insurance, i myself and my boyfriend included, and we're spending all of our money on useless "science". I am completely disgusted, will anyone join me in helping EVERYONE by ridding our societies of such monstrosities??

Nope, sorry.

you suck, we will not rid ourselves of such monstrosities without the help of everyone...

we need to help all animals like snicker, a wild-caught monkey, who was put into a cage, given injections, had horrible things done to her, horrid living conditions, until she went crazy and started licking herself until there were DEEP wounds...vets would come and wrap them up, and she would start again, all up and down her arms and legs....

Why the hell would anyone do such a thing?? and this is happening everywhere!! In AZ, a company Covance is trying to build ANOTHER tortue dungeon! Why are we allowing them to do such horrific things to such beautiful creatures?? A few years ago, the same company had a building in which the MILITARY, in BIOCHEMISTRY SUITS, had to come and kill ALL THE ANIMALS, because of a virus brought over in some wild-caught monkeys. I'm kinda glad of that, just because death is the only haven these animals have, so i know that they are not being tortured anymore...but this same monstrosity LIVES!! Why must it live??

And WE are the ones paying for it!! it's our tax dollars going to torture such beautiful things...People are dying because the funding for social services and public health care dwindles down to nothing... but why is this happening when we're we're giving NIH (National Institutes of Health) $8-8.5 BILLION annually on animal research?? 43.6 million people have no health coverage..WHY???

Pete Kohler, president of OHSU (Oregon Health Sciences University), lives in a mansion owned by OHSU. He pays no rent and makes $600,000 a year.. that's $1685 a DAY.. and OHSU pays no property taxes. meanwhile, OHSU has threatened to close down their poison control hotline for lack of funds. ?!?!?! Seriously, what is wrong here?? Why is this happening???

[Edited on Aug 25, 2005 by Mooncalf2]

[Edited on Aug 25, 2005 by Mooncalf2]

What the fuck is a 13 yr old doing posting on a porn site? Did you steal you Daddy's credit card to buy the account?

Idealism will never conquer reality.

Sorry

1.) Do what I did and many other people do...get a second job that offers benefits. Many places now offer health benefits to part-time employees.

2.) "Useless" science? Don't they have to test things on animals before they can test them on humans? I'm not even talking about cosmetics & shit liek that...I mean things like medications and such. Surely the medications now being used to stem terrible diseases like AIDS were tested on animals first?

penicillan is a life saving drug...if they would've tested it on guinea pigs, we would never have for our use, it kills guinea pigs...because it was ineffective on rabbits, the animal it was first tested on, it was set back 10 years...how many people died??

how many drugs that would've been safe for us were shelved because they sickened some animals?

Yes, by law new medications must be proven safe and efficacious before being released. First they are tested in animals. Usually a rodent and some non-rodent mammal (cats, dogs, non-human primates). Any potentially life-saving drug or therapy is tested on animals. At this stage of the game, we are a LONG way from being able to test safety and efficacy of new drugs by other methods (e.g. computer models, cultured cells/tissues) The question comes down to what is more valuable, animal lives or the lives of humans potentially who could, potentially, benefit from the new therapeutics. You are all free to have your own opinions on that.

I am a researcher at a major university. I work with frogs sometimes, but know people who work on many different species, including monkeys. While I could not bring myself to do the types of experiments my colleagues do, I can assure you that any experiments, particulary those done on non-human primates such as monkeys are not trivial. Giving vague details about injections and living conditions (which are TIGHTLY regulated on both the government and university level) does not paint an entire picture of the work that is being done. Monkeys are primarily used at my University for research on the visual system, with the ultimate goal being the development of a workable visual prosthesis which could allow a blind person to see. Monkeys are chosen because a rat's visual system, at least neuroanatomically, is just too different from that of a human's.

I would never work with monkey's myself. I'm not sure I can even justify the research that is done on them, but I can assure you that the choice of certain researchers to use them as a model system is not arbitrary.

I'm not 13, i'm 19 and i have my own debit, you idiot, i'm sorry if i'm a little passionate about the way we treat our animals, i'm just curious if they're is anyone who'll join me in my search for a better world.

i vote you get a charity box, stand i the street rattling it and chasing after people who are shopping telling them these truths.
Trust me it works everytime.

I work in genetics research

I have no averseness towards my job

I really feel there is nothing that will change my mind about the benefits and absolute necessity of animals as research subjects

That in part is why they test toxicity on multiple species. If an estimate of toxicity wasn't checked on animals first, they would have no idea about proper dosing for the human trials.

Sure, perhaps some drugs could be missed this way, but there are probably many more that are kept out of human patients, and rightly so, because of animal tests.

if they're so regulated, then why are so many of them being still being treated unfairly? until they go crazy and injure themselves? and why are they given so much money when are social programs are going to down the hole? the president of ohsu makes over a thousand dollars a day, why are they threatening to close down their poison control hotline for lack of funds?

I find vivisection techniques are a great icebreaker at the local Villians and Masterminds socials. Personally I prefer a superheated bone saw for the first few cuts. There is something wonderfullly visceral about that toasted flesh smell. Plus, if you've got the secret agents under local anesthestia the smell of his own cooking flesh helps bring home the fact that he really is being cut open alive in a way that the sound and the blood just can't do.

I just wish that hack Doktor Terror would stop trying to get all the younger villians to embrace the 'positron surgical pain inducer' method. It just doesn't work very well, the chance of inducing fatal shock is just too high for an effective torture device.

As far as self-injury, that's a very unfortunate problem. I don't know statistics on that (I'd welcome any you have). What I can say is that somebody is keeping a close eye on those sorts of things. Any animals in distress like that would likely be euthanized. Again, though, it's not really helpful to give an example that might be one situation out of 1000. It's not that it's not unfortunate or even tragic when it happens, but one has to weigh the benefits against the risks. My frogs have never shown any signs of distress. Many of my friends work in mice, rats, dogs, etc. and have never experienced the sort of self-injurious behavior of which you speak, and yet many valuable insights into health and biology come from the research being conducted.

Why there isn't enough money going to health care is another issue. I think research is a vital factor in determining the quality of health care. In my opinion, the Department of Defense is sucking a lot more money than the NIH. Perhaps some of that money should go into caring for those who can't afford their own health care. Perhaps we should *gulp* raise taxes. I think it's hugely important to care for the poor in our society. I just think that research dollars are part of the equation.

so, will you continue vivisection until we pay you the sum of...ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!???

Please come up with a reasoned argument that offers tangible alternatives to current research methods rather than an emotion fed ideological rant, that jumps between legitmate cases of animal torture, vague generalisations about research science and your feelings of being dienfranchised by the current socio-political-economic trends.

Seriously as I have posted elsewhere I am one of the first people to agree with the need for the ethical treatment of animals used in any research project however you do yourself and the cause a diservice by attempting to argue your case in such a way.

No, Mr. Rottenart, I expect you to die.

*deviously strokes a fluffy white cat*

So are you suggesting that instead, we blindly go forth and test on human beings, consequences be damned? I think a lot of people will die that way.

I think you're heart's in the right place, but the only place you're arguments will work is when preaching to the converted (like say at a PETA rally or at a Stop Animal Testing Now Million Person March.)

Of course, silly. Don't you know that people's lives don't matter because they aren't all cute and fuzzy-wuzzy?

Erm...mooncalf2? Would you care to post some links to evidence of all the mistreatment claims you are making?

And maybe stop calling people idiots? Its kinda frowned upon...

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