Boards > Current Events > NEWS: Watch Your Tailpipe, California

Shal

Los Angeles, CA

October 2002

AUG 25, 2005 12:39 AM

So say you're a California resident, and you just know your car won't pass the smog inspection. Most of us know that there's always that one garage in the area where you can quietly slip the guys some cash to "certify" that your car passed inspection. Well, looks like the California authorities are getting wise to this practice, and are deploying sensing technology to get polluting vehicles off the roads.

"In the largest experiment of its kind in California, the South Coast Air Quality Management District plans to use remote sensors and video cameras to measure air pollution from 1 million vehicles as they enter freeways and navigate roads in the counties of Los Angeles, Orange, San Bernardino and Riverside.

If caught, the owners of the most environmentally offensive cars and trucks would receive letters informing them that the government would pay to fix or scrap their vehicles. The South Coast district estimates that 10,000 to 20,000 of the dirtiest vehicles would be detected.

Smog regulators lack the authority to order drivers to dump dirty cars, but they can offer incentives."

It is estimated that one tenth of cars produce half of the emissions responsible for smog, so such an initiative could have a significant impact on air-pollution. If it works well, we hope that all big cities will do it too.

It's good for the environment, and the fact that the government will chip in to fix or scrap the vehicle is unexpected. Interesting. Now what are they going to do about the cow farts hanging over the Central Valley?

Sauda

HOPEFUL

Chicago, IL

AUG 25, 2005 06:24 AM

Sounds like a step in the right direction.

Wannie

Kingston, ON

March 2004

AUG 25, 2005 07:58 AM

If caught, the owners of the most environmentally offensive cars and trucks would receive letters informing them that the government would pay to fix or scrap their vehicles.

Ummm... is it just me, or is this the greatest environmental news in some time. If you get caught polluting, we pay to make you stop polluting. I don't understand why people wont just turn themselves.

And a quick note to all those bribing the mechanics instead of fixing you polluting piece of shit: FUCK OFF

dpk

Seattle, WA

November 2004

AUG 25, 2005 08:13 AM

It was my understanding they've been paying for smog repairs for a long time. Perhaps not for the entire repair, but it was still something significant:

Smog Repair Assistance Fact Sheet

Somehow I doubt that the state is going to get too many more takers on this "new" project.

(Edit: Don't get me wrong though, I do think it's good. I just get the feeling it won't be quite as good as hoped.)

[Edited on Aug 25, 2005 8:17AM]

whitepuma

Australia

March 2004

AUG 25, 2005 01:51 PM

Why doesnt America just do what Japan did and introduce a progressive registration fee so that any car after a certan age will cost more to register then buying a new car. In Japan it is three years. To me this costs the govt nothing and at the same time forces cars of the road that are not roadworthy.

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 25, 2005 05:54 PM

whitepuma said:
Why doesnt America just do what Japan did and introduce a progressive registration fee so that any car after a certan age will cost more to register then buying a new car. In Japan it is three years. To me this costs the govt nothing and at the same time forces cars of the road that are not roadworthy.

A) Lots of Americans like to drive. Lots of Americans like to drive old cars. There's hardly a comparable classic car culture in Japan to the one here.

B) Until public transit is easy, safe, fast, and cheap across the country (which it never will be), any measures designed to force people to buy new cars every 3 years will prove draconian and be a poison pill for any lawmaker that promotes them.

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 25, 2005 10:11 PM

great news. i love living in a state with smart, practical policies.

eforrest

HOPEFUL

Coos Bay, OR

AUG 25, 2005 11:36 PM

The smog problem IS awful. Even when I drive to Vallejo, the smog is so bad that the sun doesn't "come out" until 2 PM. It's madness. Something needs to be done.

FiendClub

Colton, CA

OLD SKOOL

AUG 25, 2005 11:38 PM

Thank freaking God. I hate driving by beat up assed vans spurting smoke all over the road making me close my air vents. Those bastards always have new tags.

[Edited on Aug 25, 2005 by FiendClub]

reprobate

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 01:28 AM

s5 said:
great news. i love living in a state with smart, practical policies.

You've moved?

Look, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but this is window dressing. It's spending federal money to create the impression of taking steps that are required to continue to receive federal money. It is a huge capital and manpower investment, coupled, incidentally, with intensive surveillance to what, inform people of government programs that they in almost all cases cannot or will not take part in.

I actually have a friend who participated in the smog program. Its byzantine, even for a guy who went to the London School of Economics. For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it. What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV. The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles. Until you address that, you're just pissing in the wind with your tax money.

bones_708

Houston, TX

December 2004

AUG 26, 2005 01:35 AM

whitepuma said:
Why doesnt America just do what Japan did and introduce a progressive registration fee so that any car after a certan age will cost more to register then buying a new car. In Japan it is three years. To me this costs the govt nothing and at the same time forces cars of the road that are not roadworthy.

I know here in Tx that would been seen as placing a undue burden on the poor who cannot afford to drive new cars and would then have to pay more for their hoopty.

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD

June 2004

AUG 26, 2005 05:47 AM

bean said:

whitepuma said:
Why doesnt America just do what Japan did and introduce a progressive registration fee so that any car after a certan age will cost more to register then buying a new car. In Japan it is three years. To me this costs the govt nothing and at the same time forces cars of the road that are not roadworthy.

A) Lots of Americans like to drive. Lots of Americans like to drive old cars. There's hardly a comparable classic car culture in Japan to the one here.

B) Until public transit is easy, safe, fast, and cheap across the country (which it never will be), any measures designed to force people to buy new cars every 3 years will prove draconian and be a poison pill for any lawmaker that promotes them.

C) Look at the energy (and pollution) involved in making a new car.

plonk

Campbell, CA

February 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:11 PM

Wannie said:

If caught, the owners of the most environmentally offensive cars and trucks would receive letters informing them that the government would pay to fix or scrap their vehicles.

Ummm... is it just me, or is this the greatest environmental news in some time. If you get caught polluting, we pay to make you stop polluting. I don't understand why people wont just turn themselves.

It may be the cheapest way to get them off the road. If they try the punishment route, they have to slog through the whole legal morass, while the vehicle continues to pollute. Most of the people driving these kinds of cars may well be too poor to fix their wheels or get better ones, so punishing them for it really doesn't make any sense at all.

plonk

Campbell, CA

February 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:18 PM

whitepuma said:
Why doesnt America just do what Japan did and introduce a progressive registration fee so that any car after a certan age will cost more to register then buying a new car. In Japan it is three years. To me this costs the govt nothing and at the same time forces cars of the road that are not roadworthy.

Because even in America we don't generally shaft the poor that blatantly.

OneManMoshPit

USA

December 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:37 PM

reprobate said:

s5 said:
great news. i love living in a state with smart, practical policies.

You've moved?

Look, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but this is window dressing. It's spending federal money to create the impression of taking steps that are required to continue to receive federal money. It is a huge capital and manpower investment, coupled, incidentally, with intensive surveillance to what, inform people of government programs that they in almost all cases cannot or will not take part in.

I actually have a friend who participated in the smog program. Its byzantine, even for a guy who went to the London School of Economics. For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it. What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV. The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles. Until you address that, you're just pissing in the wind with your tax money.

well thought out my friend. truly a wast of tax dollars in a state that is already in financial distress.

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 12:56 PM

reprobate said:
For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it.

this is a bizarre argument. you're basically saying that because we can't get every gross polluter off the road, that we shouldn't try to get any of them.

What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV.

sure, they'll get another old crappy car. but as long as their next car is a bit newer and perhaps not spewing as much crap into the air, then it's still a success.

The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles.

but surely they can afford to drive cleaner vehicles, and this program will help them to do just that.

FiendClub

Colton, CA

OLD SKOOL

AUG 26, 2005 03:44 PM

reprobate said:

s5 said:
great news. i love living in a state with smart, practical policies.

You've moved?

Look, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but this is window dressing. It's spending federal money to create the impression of taking steps that are required to continue to receive federal money. It is a huge capital and manpower investment, coupled, incidentally, with intensive surveillance to what, inform people of government programs that they in almost all cases cannot or will not take part in.

I actually have a friend who participated in the smog program. Its byzantine, even for a guy who went to the London School of Economics. For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it. What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV. The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles. Until you address that, you're just pissing in the wind with your tax money.

Normally I would fully agree with you. But unfortunately I live in San Bernardino/ Riverside county, and have to put up with this crap on a daily basis. It's that bad. And whatever action the Gov is taking on this issue will make things better for us. better than no action taken.

monkeybuttt

Los Angeles, CA

June 2005

AUG 26, 2005 06:31 PM

is that what those cameras along the 101 are for?

reprobate

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:22 PM

s5 said:
reprobate said:
For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it.

this is a bizarre argument. you're basically saying that because we can't get every gross polluter off the road, that we shouldn't try to get any of them.

No, what I'm saying is you shouldn't spend buckets of money pretending to do something. This program has been around for years. People are automatically diverted into it if you fail the test under certain conditions. It has achieved something close to squat, and costs a shitload of money.

What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV.

sure, they'll get another old crappy car. but as long as their next car is a bit newer and perhaps not spewing as much crap into the air, then it's still a success.

What on earth makes you think thats going to happen? They give you $900 for your car, you have $900 to buy a new one with. At best, this program gets some clunkers back into emissions compliance for a few years.

The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles.

but surely they can afford to drive cleaner vehicles, and this program will help them to do just that.

No, really it doesn't. Like I said, I know the program, most people who are even eligible for it aren't going to be able to navigate the process, and the process doesn't really pay that much. They don't say "Hey, your car is worth $3,200, here's $3,200, go and use that as the down payment of a $6,400 car." Perhaps if they used the buckets of cash their going to use for monitoring to, you know simpilfy and publicize and fund the program to reasonable levels it might actually achieve something, but as it stands now, it just creates more jobs for the DOT and CalTrans so that they can go to the fed and show how "dynamic" they're being to address the AQMD mandates.

reprobate

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:25 PM

FiendClub said:

reprobate said:

s5 said:
great news. i love living in a state with smart, practical policies.

You've moved?

Look, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but this is window dressing. It's spending federal money to create the impression of taking steps that are required to continue to receive federal money. It is a huge capital and manpower investment, coupled, incidentally, with intensive surveillance to what, inform people of government programs that they in almost all cases cannot or will not take part in.

I actually have a friend who participated in the smog program. Its byzantine, even for a guy who went to the London School of Economics. For people who are, lets face it, at the lower end of the economic spectrum and are likely minorities and in more than a few cases illegal aliens, its impenetrable. Even if these people did decide to participate, if your car isn't fixable for the capped rate, they scrap it. What kind of car do you think these folks can afford to replace it with. You can pretty safely guess its not a nice new LEV. The bottom line is, quite simply that there are simply entirely to many people in California who can't afford to drive clean emissions vehicles. Until you address that, you're just pissing in the wind with your tax money.

Normally I would fully agree with you. But unfortunately I live in San Bernardino/ Riverside county, and have to put up with this crap on a daily basis. It's that bad. And whatever action the Gov is taking on this issue will make things better for us. better than no action taken.

Ummm, I just moved from central LA. My wife used to work with CalTrans on all the projects they create for the express purpose of satisfying the air quality mandates without actually solving any problems. This is one of them. This is the automotive version of "No Child left Behind". To say something is better than nothing is to pretend that the banana in your ear is keeping the alligators away.

fiendish

USA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:46 PM

Wannie said:

If caught, the owners of the most environmentally offensive cars and trucks would receive letters informing them that the government would pay to fix or scrap their vehicles.

Ummm... is it just me, or is this the greatest environmental news in some time. If you get caught polluting, we pay to make you stop polluting. I don't understand why people wont just turn themselves.

And a quick note to all those bribing the mechanics instead of fixing you polluting piece of shit: FUCK OFF

pay to scrap so what's that 80 dollars fix it or buy me a new car

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

AUG 26, 2005 07:55 PM

My first response to this is to wonder where we get the money to fund this when our education system is grossly underfunded. Meh.

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 08:26 PM

reprobate said:
What on earth makes you think thats going to happen? They give you $900 for your car, you have $900 to buy a new one with. At best, this program gets some clunkers back into emissions compliance for a few years.

like i said,

you're basically saying that because we can't get every gross polluter off the road, that we shouldn't try to get any of them.

any amount of reduction of air pollution is still a reduction of air pollution.

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 08:27 PM

Thistle said:
My first response to this is to wonder where we get the money to fund this when our education system is grossly underfunded. Meh.

you could make the other argument when people talk about funding education. "how can we dump more money into the school system when the air is making people sick." both are important and should receive adequate funding.

Thistle

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

AUG 26, 2005 08:28 PM

s5 said:

Thistle said:
My first response to this is to wonder where we get the money to fund this when our education system is grossly underfunded. Meh.

you could make the other argument when people talk about funding education. "how can we dump more money into the school system when the air is making people sick." both are important and should receive adequate funding.

yeah, I know. I'm just crotchety today.

BOARDS:

TOPICS:

Los Angeles, CA

October 2002

AUG 25, 2005 12:39 AM

HOPEFUL

Chicago, IL

AUG 25, 2005 06:24 AM

Kingston, ON

March 2004

AUG 25, 2005 07:58 AM

Seattle, WA

November 2004

AUG 25, 2005 08:13 AM

Australia

March 2004

AUG 25, 2005 01:51 PM

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

AUG 25, 2005 05:54 PM

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 25, 2005 10:11 PM

eforrest

HOPEFUL

Coos Bay, OR

AUG 25, 2005 11:36 PM

Colton, CA

OLD SKOOL

AUG 25, 2005 11:38 PM

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 01:28 AM

Houston, TX

December 2004

AUG 26, 2005 01:35 AM

Ellicott City, MD

June 2004

AUG 26, 2005 05:47 AM

Campbell, CA

February 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:11 PM

Campbell, CA

February 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:18 PM

OneManMoshPit

USA

December 2003

AUG 26, 2005 12:37 PM

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 12:56 PM

Colton, CA

OLD SKOOL

AUG 26, 2005 03:44 PM

monkeybuttt

Los Angeles, CA

June 2005

AUG 26, 2005 06:31 PM

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:22 PM

New Orleans, LA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:25 PM

USA

December 2002

AUG 26, 2005 07:46 PM

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

AUG 26, 2005 07:55 PM

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 08:26 PM

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

AUG 26, 2005 08:27 PM

SUICIDEGIRL

California, USA

AUG 26, 2005 08:28 PM