Living Under Facism

An interesting sermon that I thought others might be interested in reading.

The full sermon.

Why, it's uncannily simliar to Bush's America!

I don't for a moment believe that Bush has a monopoly on the sort of things that this sermon brings up. While there is no doubt that this is a rather overt critisism of Bush's administration, I think it's only healthy for the average citizen to have a critical eye of thier politicians.

Fascism

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

You be the judge.

that is the most creative defintion of 'facism' ive ever read.

^^^^
Dr_Zoidberg's definition seems much more based on facts. but then, wheres the sensationalism in paying attention to reality?

When I looked for Facism, I got this.

When I clicked on the alternate spelling, I got this.

Once again, you be the judge.

Edit to say: Its even spelled "Fascism" in the article. Is it the right spelling? www.dictionary.com says so.

[Edited on Feb 11, 2005 by Dr_Zoidberg]

So, let's play loose constructionist for a minute:

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a deceptive, debatably ethical political party, stringent socioeconomic controls such as attempting to legislate morality to an extreme degree and providing economic benefits only to the economically elite, suppression of the opposition through fear-mongering and censorship, and a policy of belligerent nationalism, questionable "pre-emptive" strikes, a "with us or agin' us" attitude, and racism/homophobia.


Suddenly it becomes a lot closer, doesn't it?

oh you mean, living in America? my dad used to call Disneyland fascist land, then again he married an American Woman...

Why? Because Walt Disney was an anti-Semite? (he was, I'm serious)

that and so much more you should check out some stuff about Disney by reverend Bill Talen...here

lol, Marxism in evangelical revival clothing. I have to say that's pretty clever.

A WELCOME FOR THE REPUBLICANS
Dear Fellow Sufferers in the Shopacalypse.
We are lost in the mall of the transnational corporation known as America, a name taken from a movie produced by tax- and draft-dodgers who hate you. But forgive them, for they have POWER, and power is either grand or it is comic, but either way it is simply the script for CORRUPTION the musical, which was produced by tax and draft-dodgers who hate you. But forgive them, for they have MEDIA drilling each of us for our dreams, memory fragments, moral whispers, and wonderings beneath the night stars, which is used to create a new PERFUME by tax and draft-dodgers who hate you. But forgive them, for they have SEX in the distance, beneath snap-on sunsets bulk-zipped to celebrities who look at you and call you a MARKET, and put you in a dome, and send you down an aisle in a big box, and make you so bored with your life that you actually think that THE NEW TOM CRUISE MOVIE WILL SAVE YOU. This, children, is the Harvard Business School nonsense that made the dead children drink tea in the big 2-day White Sale, do you remember those children? How they discussed Shock and Awe in their displays case while the generals began to sob?
Shopping, you can hardly feel it. We only have the sense that we have forgotten something about our lives.

[Edited on Feb 11, 2005 by stockula]

I think that Bush is a fuckwit, and I'm scared by some of the things that the US is doing, but in my opinion using words like Fascism does nothing to help people like me. It scares off the waverers who aren't sure if Bush is evil or just a bit dumb, and it antagonises Bush supporters.

I'm never goingt o be able to convince a republican that they're wrong. I can, however, talk to them and try to understand what they're thinking and explain my worries. Using words like fascism destroys that dialog and weakens my arguments.

Why is your goal to prove Republicans wrong? Is what ever party you associate yourself with right? Maybe I looked too deep into your statement, but you kind of sound like current day Christians who try to say that all other religions are wrong. Weird isn't it?

Fascist state...no.
Police state...perhaps..

All religious people believe that all other religions are wrong.

Political and religious debate are healthy especially considering the huge level of disinformation that exists in the current climate

Let's see, at six in the morning can I come up with a counter arguement?
Forgive me if this is haphazard, I just woke up:

Let's look at a few things:
The creation of the Patriot Act.
The contracting of "security" services to private contracted Intellegence agencies.
The largest overhaul to the federal government since the 1930's (an overhaul that was used to create a policing agency by the way).
The purging of the CIA and FBI of all none Bush supporting personel
The bypassing of international law and treaties such as the Geneva Convention
The re-writting of the Republican Ethics Code in order to allow those party members comitting crimes to stay in Congress
The attempted bypass of the Judicial branch of government through limitations impossed on lawsuits ext.
The intimidation of and harrassment of Democrat voters in various states across the nation.

Now that is just a list that attempts to answer your first definition. I didn't really use any of my own arguement, I simply stated things that HAVE happened under the Bush administration. I would say that ALL of them point to centralizing authority in an authoritarian way.

While I realize that you looked up the definition I have to ask if you have ever read any studies on the development of Fascist Europe durring the build up towards WWII? If you haven't it's understandable. Most people assume that Nazi Germany happened over night, or that Mussollini came out of no where, and then BOOM you had fascism.

Very few Americans understand the process that was involved in the political takeover of these countries prior to the war. It didn't happen over night, it was a slow process, and in the case of Italia it took over thiry years for it to boil to a head.

Now if you were to take the time to study this part of the development of Fascism you would find that this nation holds more similarities to EARLY fascist Italy right now, then I think most people understand. Does this mean that we are "Nazi" Germany? No, not yet, but it does mean that the current executive and legislative branches are pushing us closer then we have ever been before.

I could discuss the depth of fascism with you if you would like. If you would like some reading material on what exactly Fascism is, and HOW it comes about. I suggest a book called:

Fascism
by
Alan Cassels c 1975

it was written before out current sittuation in this nation, and looks only at the build up of Italian Fascismo. It is analytical, scientific, and kind of dry, and now logical person could call it "left" or "right", it's simply a study.

Does this administration fit the definition of fascist? No.
Are they destroying our democracy? I think so.
Is their intention to destroy our democracy? I doubt it - they just don't really care about democracy.
They are simply making use of our sole superpower status to pursue their goals, chipping away at our democracy as needed.
It's the economy, stupid!
They serve the interests of the wealthy. If servering those interests appears patriotic or humane, so much the better, but that is just crowd control.

Because I'd like someone to try and stop the Yanks from destroying the planet, and Bush is not that man.

EDIT: If it makes it easier for you I could have said the same thing about Democrats and "communists" or some other equally silly word.

[Edited on Feb 11, 2005 by demetrius_z]

I'd also recommend some of John R. Hibbing's books:

Congress as public enemy : public attitudes toward American political institutions.
Stealth democracy : Americans' beliefs about how government should work.
What Is It About Government That Americans Dislike.

I think that Hibbing's work suggests that there are some aspects of fascism that would very much appeal to most Americans. Hell, when the Italians were ramping up their fascist revolution, I'm pretty sure the U.S. invited Italo Balboa to come on over for a visit. In fact, I think they renamed a street for him in Chicago during his visit.

If you're interested in a chuckle, there is what appears to be a short form of Adorno's F Scale on-line. I filled it out for you, Stockula, and it said, "You may want to practice doing things with your left hand."

Did anyone actually read the thing? I thought it was pretty good, actually. Not the usual "BUSH IS HITLER OMG WTF!?!11?!"

That's ind of my point. As soon as you say "fascism" any republicans are going to ignore anything else you say, even if it is valid.

Why would anyone associate with a political party which they thought was wrong?

[Edited on Feb 11, 2005 by waldo]

Very thorough!

The truth is that I am afraid of the way the country as a whole is heading. Its not just the republicans or democrats causing the problems too. Both parties believe what they are doing is the right thing.One way we could solve this is to make voting easier to do, so that fat, lazy, stupid americans like myself would feel more motivated to vote. To actually participate in their government. One party or the other isn't the problem, and the other one isn't going to solve all the problems. Its the corruption and greed in our government that is the problem. Both parties are guilty of this.

I vote the way that I do because I believe that the republicans are the best for the job, as incopetent as they are. We all vote for the people we think will do a good job. Until a better system comes along, I will continue to have faith in our government, no matter if republicans or democrats are in control. I hope that they have my and the rest of the citizens of this country's best interests in heart, even though in the back of my head, I'm thinking that I am just getting the shaft, no matter who is in charge.

It truly is hard nowadays, isn't it?

I for one abhor facism in all its facets. TV, news media, fashion photography--everywhere I look, there is only this one obsessive focus:

The face

My god, when will people wake up to the fact that there are other parts of the body that demand to be better appreciated, even admired. But I remain optimistic. The shoulder, the breast, the buttock, the foot--they will not be kept in the shadows. One day this scourge of facism will be defeated and the world will indeed be a more beautiful place.












I am an asshole.

I got a 3. "You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American."

3 to 4.5 Within normal limits; an appropriate score for an American. (The overall average score for groups tested in the original study is listed in the 1950 publication as 3.84, with men averaging somewhat higher and women somewhat lower.)

[Edited on Feb 11, 2005 by Dr_Zoidberg]