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Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

FEB 09, 2005 10:51 AM

Republican consulting group GOP Marketplace LLC was slapped on the wrist today in U.S. District Court for disrupting Democratic voter access to polling places in Manchester, Nashua, Rochester and Claremont in New Hampshire in 2002. Company president Allen Raymond received a $15,600 fine and 5 months of jail time for conspiring with party leaders to ensure Democrats would have a hard time getting a ride to the polls.

Court papers say Raymond and co-conspirators plotted to jam Democratic lines that voters could call for rides to the polls in Manchester, Nashua, Rochester and Claremont. A line run by the nonpartisan Manchester firefighters' union also was jammed.

The blizzard of more than 800 computer-generated calls lasted about 90 minutes on Nov. 5, 2002, as voters decided races for governor, U.S. senator and hundreds of other offices.


The New Hampshire Republican Party claims they only hired GOP Marketplace for telemarketing services prior to the election to encourage people to vote Republican. However, the executive director of the party plead also guilty to the same charges.

Chuck McGee, former executive director of the New Hampshire Republican Party, also pleaded guilty. He is scheduled to be sentenced next month.

James Tobin, 44, regional chairman of Bush's campaign last year, was indicted in December and pleaded innocent. Tobin, of Bangor, Maine, had stepped down from Bush's New England campaign in October after the allegations against him became public. In 2002, he was northeast political director of the party committee working to elect Republican senators.


Restricting access to the polls, anyone?

stuzzy

stuzzy

Seattle, WA
June 2004

FEB 09, 2005 01:08 PM

I'm stunned the republican party would stoop to such levels....stunned.

ClockworkJim

ClockworkJim

Levittown, NY
February 2004

FEB 09, 2005 01:09 PM

Well, people who dont agree with you should never have the right to vote.

Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

FEB 09, 2005 01:10 PM

Heh.. I got impatient and started a thread with this article already. Heh.. blush

hell

hell

Austin, TX
February 2003

FEB 09, 2005 01:25 PM

stuzzy said:
I'm stunned the republican party would stoop to such levels....stunned.



Actually...I'm not

kel

kel

USA
September 2003

FEB 09, 2005 01:53 PM

hell said:

stuzzy said:
I'm stunned the republican party would stoop to such levels....stunned.



Actually...I'm not



sarcasm I think.
I'm stunned that a political party would violate the law. Simply stunned.

m0unds

m0unds

Rio Rancho, NM
April 2003

FEB 09, 2005 02:20 PM

well damn. too bad it took them 2 years to do it. wonder how long til they find discrepancies in the '04 election? whatever

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

FEB 09, 2005 02:22 PM

m0unds said:
well damn. too bad it took them 2 years to do it. wonder how long til they find discrepancies in the '04 election? whatever



January 21st, 2009.

bones_708

bones_708

Houston, TX
December 2004

FEB 09, 2005 02:25 PM

I think it's more about who gets caught.
Dem fraud in 2002

more

[Edited on Feb 09, 2005 by bones_708]

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

FEB 09, 2005 02:58 PM

bones_708 said:
I think it's more about who gets caught.
Dem fraud in 2002

more



Reasons why those stories are irrelevant:

1) They are not new. They came out in 2002. So, any updates on the results, or are they still just "allegations?"

2) Fraudulent registrations are BS. Nobody is or can actually vote via a fraudulent registration. The system finds and weeds out such registrations pretty easily, as it did in the cases you mentioned.

3) Those cases do not represent any direct effort by any party to do anything to fuck with actual votes. What you've got there is a bunch of random people pulled off the street and told "we'll give you X amount of money per registration you pick up," and then they went out and got false registrations in order to scam the system. Big fucking deal. They're small time crooks.

4) What we're talking about with this story is the state head of the Republican Party pleading guilty to actively trying to keep people from being able to vote.



Try again. Or, just admit that this is incredibly fucked up and stop getting so defensive.

[Edited on Feb 09, 2005 by bean]

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

FEB 09, 2005 05:10 PM

i see that the "i am not a crook" party is at it again.

semyaza

semyaza

Wildomar, CA
December 2004

FEB 09, 2005 06:07 PM

Please people...do we honestly expect the major parties to act in a decent and fair manner? Ain't gonna happen.

Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch. wink

InfernoMDM

InfernoMDM

Hilton Head Island, SC
July 2003

FEB 09, 2005 06:56 PM

Can anyone say Snowbirds double-dipping their votes in Florida and New York

Since s5 thinks that the Republicans are "not a crook" party. Id figure it was time someone remined everyone that Democrats have done just as terrible things and NO ONE got even there wrist slapped for that one.

waxangel

waxangel

Baltimore, MD
May 2003

FEB 09, 2005 07:10 PM

InfernoMDM said:
Can anyone say Snowbirds double-dipping their votes in Florida and New York

Since s5 thinks that the Republicans are "not a crook" party. Id figure it was time someone remined everyone that Democrats have done just as terrible things and NO ONE got even there wrist slapped for that one.


You know, I haven't actually seen any hard evidence of this NY/Florida allegation. Care to back this up with anything at all?

JohnClement

JohnClement

Silver Spring, MD
January 2004

FEB 09, 2005 07:50 PM

waxangel said:

InfernoMDM said:
Can anyone say Snowbirds double-dipping their votes in Florida and New York

Since s5 thinks that the Republicans are "not a crook" party. Id figure it was time someone remined everyone that Democrats have done just as terrible things and NO ONE got even there wrist slapped for that one.


You know, I haven't actually seen any hard evidence of this NY/Florida allegation. Care to back this up with anything at all?



Dude, rumor is so much better when you shout it in bold. Facts get in the way of hearsay.



[Edited on Feb 09, 2005 by BillHaverchuck]

iamblades22

iamblades22

I'm lost
January 2005

FEB 09, 2005 08:12 PM

Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.

Bastardo

Bastardo

Boston, MA
January 2005

FEB 09, 2005 08:42 PM

Crap I wish we had more parties. Then we could get some really intense three-way shit-flinging.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

FEB 09, 2005 08:49 PM

iamblades22 said:
Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.


Oh, it's not as bad as that? Really? Well, care to point out which Democratic officeholders or high-ranking members of the Democratic Party were found guilty of orchestrating that? Or how slashing a few vehicles' tires affects as many people as jamming the entire phone systems of several counties' ride hotlines? Hell, maybe you could enlighten us all by pointing to any legitimate news about any law enforcement investigation that documented what you're talking about and placed the blame anywhere near the Democratic Party or its members?

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

FEB 09, 2005 08:49 PM

iamblades22 said:
Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.



Proof, please.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

FEB 09, 2005 08:51 PM

InfernoMDM said:
Can anyone say Snowbirds double-dipping their votes in Florida and New York

Since s5 thinks that the Republicans are "not a crook" party. Id figure it was time someone remined everyone that Democrats have done just as terrible things and NO ONE got even there wrist slapped for that one.


So, if nobody was indicted, arrested, or convicted for what you're saying, what evidence is there that it happened at all, besides the ranting of some partisan bloggers or pundits?

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

FEB 09, 2005 08:54 PM

semyaza said:
Please people...do we honestly expect the major parties to act in a decent and fair manner? Ain't gonna happen.


I expect them, and they should be expected, to at the very least not break the fucking law. There's a huge difference between acting unfairly or indecently, and breaking the law.

iamblades22

iamblades22

I'm lost
January 2005

FEB 09, 2005 08:56 PM

Stiles said:

iamblades22 said:
Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.



Proof, please.



You never heard about this?

It was all over the news around election day.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

FEB 09, 2005 09:05 PM

From the article:


According to the criminal complaint filed in the case, the five men conspired, without the knowledge of top Democratic Party officials, to plaster Republican Party headquarters on W. Capitol Drive with Democratic signs and stickers, something they dubbed Operation Elephant Takeover.




Seth Boffeli, spokesman for the Wisconsin Democratic Party, denounced the slashings and said the felony charge seemed appropriate.

“This really doesn’t have anything to do with politics,” Boffeli said. “This isn’t anything that we tried to orchestrate. This is something that some young people who used some incredibly bad judgment did on their own.”




Not nearly equivalent, sorry. Those charged weren't high-ranking state Dem officials, they were pranksters who made a criminally bad decision when they went from stickers to vandalism, and they should be punished if found guilty.

iamblades22

iamblades22

I'm lost
January 2005

FEB 09, 2005 09:10 PM

bean said:

iamblades22 said:
Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.


Oh, it's not as bad as that? Really? Well, care to point out which Democratic officeholders or high-ranking members of the Democratic Party were found guilty of orchestrating that? Or how slashing a few vehicles' tires affects as many people as jamming the entire phone systems of several counties' ride hotlines? Hell, maybe you could enlighten us all by pointing to any legitimate news about any law enforcement investigation that documented what you're talking about and placed the blame anywhere near the Democratic Party or its members?



See my link above for details.

I don't think there has been any direct proof of high level democratic party involvement, but considering the facts that they are relatives of a democratic representative, and were in a car rented by a democratic campaign staffer, I'd say it wouldn't be a surprise.

And considering the amount of tires slashed (at least 10 vehicles, maybe more?). The tireslashers could easily have prevented as many people voting as jamming a phone line for 90 minutes. The phone jammers prevented anyone who called during that 90 minutes from getting a ride, the tire slashers prevented anyone from getting a ride at all.

Then there is the fact that one act caused physical damage while the other did not. Yeah, I'd say slashing 40 tires is worse than jamming a phone line for 90 minutes.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

FEB 09, 2005 09:12 PM

iamblades22 said:

bean said:

iamblades22 said:
Well it isn't as bad as the democrats who slit tires on vehicles that were going to be used to pick people up and take them to the polls.

IIRC, they were some democratic lawmaker's kids even.


Oh, it's not as bad as that? Really? Well, care to point out which Democratic officeholders or high-ranking members of the Democratic Party were found guilty of orchestrating that? Or how slashing a few vehicles' tires affects as many people as jamming the entire phone systems of several counties' ride hotlines? Hell, maybe you could enlighten us all by pointing to any legitimate news about any law enforcement investigation that documented what you're talking about and placed the blame anywhere near the Democratic Party or its members?



See my link above for details.

I don't think there has been any direct proof of high level democratic party involvement, but considering the facts that they are relatives of a democratic representative, and were in a car rented by a democratic campaign staffer, I'd say it wouldn't be a surprise.

And considering the amount of tires slashed (at least 10 vehicles, maybe more?). The tireslashers could easily have prevented as many people voting as jamming a phone line for 90 minutes. The phone jammers prevented anyone who called during that 90 minutes from getting a ride, the tire slashers prevented anyone from getting a ride at all.

Then there is the fact that one act caused physical damage while the other did not. Yeah, I'd say slashing 40 tires is worse than jamming a phone line for 90 minutes.



I'll wait to respond until you respond to what Stiles said right before you.

[Edited on Feb 09, 2005 by bean]

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