NEWS: IRA Robs Bank & Will Not Decommission. UK: "Don't Worry."

I've been following this story in the news. I think that it is highly unreasonable of the IRA to take the offer of decommissioning off the table, however I do have some sympathies with Sinn Fein on this issue:

It seems highly likely that only an organization as well established and networked as the IRA could pull off a robbery of this size in Northern ireland, and after all, their lives must be fairly quiet since the ceasefire, which gives paramilitaries the time to plan a stunt like this.
However, I think that the unionists and the UK government should not have suspended talks with Sinn Fein over the issue. I just don't believe that a political organization the size of Sinn Fein would have allowed such an incident to take place at thjis stage of the peace process, and that it was done without their knowledge, because politicians are a savvy bunch, particularly Gerry adams, and he's just not that foolhardy.

What's more, there has been no offer of proof to the public that Sinn Fein as a political party are connected to the theft.
The worrying thing today, as ever, is that political organizations rarely have any real control over any paramilitary groups with which they are affiliated – just look at Palestine and the Basque region of Spain.

Tell me one recorded instance where any of the Unionist "paramilitaries" (the Brit spin on the word terrorist) decommissioned any weapons.

Show me one recorded instance where Unionist "paramilitaries" are called terrorists when they have blown up pubs, car bombs, murdered et cetera.

The Brits have colluded with Unionist "paramilitaries" in acts of murder. This is before the European Parliament.

The "Bank Job" is just as likely to have been committed by Unionist "paramilitaries" and Brit security forces.

I completely agree – the point I was trying to make was that the job was clearly done by professionals. And i'd also like to point out that whilst we are told through the media that it was done by the IRA we have been given not a scrap of evidence from the police or the Government to this effect.

I have no bias in the Northern Ireland situation, I just wish for a lasting peace.

I completely agree – the point I was trying to make was that the job was clearly done by professionals. And i'd also like to point out that whilst we are told through the media that it was done by the IRA we have been given not a scrap of evidence from the police or the Government to this effect.

I have no bias in the Northern Ireland situation, I just wish for a lasting peace.

"Paramilitaries" is used in Britain for Unionist and Republican terrorists. HTH.

BBC report

That's not what Bertie Ahern, the Irsih Prime Minister, says:
BBC report

franklychris, I appreciate your point.

As fate would have it, we are(at least geographically) on opposite sides of the field.

However, that doesn't mean either of us blindly accept "our sides" version of events.

Like your self, I'm interested in the facts of the matter, and ultimately wish for peace in my homeland.

Cheers!

Thank you for the sources.

No worries.

I was hoping this article would be a pro- Sinn Fein piece. In my opinion the IRA have done remarkable things to move towards peace. I realise that I haven't really covered this, and perhaps people who don't follow Irish news won't be aware of how far they have moved.

The UDA, the biggest Loyalist terrorist group, has only had a ceasefire since Feb 2004, and that was only recognized by the British Government in Nov 2004.

Yes, the IRA have had a decade long ceasefire which often goes unrecognized in the press.

I just pray to god that even though negotiations are frozen, the ceasefire holds.

Yes, the IRA has moved on from blowing people up. Now they just play a major roll in Irish crime.

demetrius_z,
Bertie Ahern believes that the IRA were involved.
He also believes he, himself, is a socialist... nuff said.

I agree that the IRA are the only group in Ireland that could of orcastrated the robbery. It's way out of the Unionists league. But it doesnt make sense. Why would the IRA shit on their own doorstep at such a time?

If you don't have family or friends there you will never understand. Are you really concerned? If you would like to really see what goes on rent - Some mothers Son ( the true story about Bobby Sands), Bloody Sunday, In the Name of the Father and the Boxer. That will show you first hand the struggle that goes on in Ireland. And if you are Irish and proud look up the your local chapter of the Ancient Order of Hiberians and find out the real truth.

What the hell does that have to do with this subject?

I have family and friends involved and we all agree the only reason there is still a problem is because both sides are stupid, bigoted and stubborn.

Edit: For the sake of politeness

[Edited on Feb 05, 2005 by germ13]

>>>>>> Analysis: Unauthorised


by Danny Morrison (for Hearts and Minds)

It was the biggest bank robbery in the history of the state and everyone presumed the IRA did it. But those responsible for the heist in Dublin in October 1972 were eventually arrested and sentenced. They were two English brothers, Kenneth and Keith Littlejohn, who claimed they were working for British Intelligence. Whilst London later admitted that a senior MoD official had met Kenneth in regard to gathering intelligence on the IRA any illegal activity "had not been authorised".

Absolutely.

The Littlejohns told the Dublin court that the robbery was aimed at discrediting the Republican Movement and force the Irish government to introduce tougher measures - which it did.

The robbery and a number of bombings in the south created an atmosphere which saw the enactment of the Offences Against the State Act - allowing for non-jury courts and Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act - the RTE ban on Sinn Fein. The first person to be arrested and sentenced under the new act was the President of Sinn Fein, Ruairi O Bradaigh.

When I first heard of the Northern Bank heist I suspected it might have been the IRA replying to Paisley's 'sackcloth and ashes' demand and his rejection of decommissioning, witnessed by two independent clerics, being completed by Christmas.

But I changed my mind after the Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde's press conference and the subsequent robust and repeated denials from Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness.

Even General de Chastelain's lustreless speech in 2002, regarding the IRA's significant third act of decommissioning,
was more riveting than the performance put in by Hugh. I don't know who, or what organisation, if any, did the bank. The Chief Constable says it was the IRA. To back that up the PSNI has published a 'dodgy dossier', which included the wrong estimate of money taken, the wrong serial numbers of the missing notes and a grainy CCTV film of the mysterious white van used in the robbery.

From various raids I understand that the PSNI have narrowed a suspect down further - to a republican with size 9 feet.

Hugh Orde said he was naming the IRA in order to facilitate the investigation. But surely this news would frighten off potential eye-witnesses, two of whom have balked at coming forward.

The DUP have accepted as definitive the word of Hugh Orde that the IRA robbed the Northern Bank. Ironically the DUP has provided us with a breakthrough in the decommissioning logjam.

Though we might be poorer we could well be all the richer, with the peace process back on track, if Hugh Orde was the witness to confirm that the IRA had put all of its weapons beyond use!


Hearts and Minds BBC





[Edited on Feb 04, 2005 11:12PM]

The UK will now put anyone in the country under house arrest without charge or trial.
The IRA are responsible for the Northern Bank robbery.

What do these two statements have in common? They are both justified through "intelligence", that our leaders are allowed access to, but the public aren't even allowed the vaguest hint about.

How much longer are we to blindly accept charges claimed by our intelligence services, the same intelligence services who provided a dossier claiming that there were WMDs in Iraq?

Hey, I know how you feel. We all feel it, and suffer from it. We've all lost loved ones, either to the violence, or to the prisons.

It took me a long time to be able to discuss ANYTHING about the north of Ireland without my blood pressure going through the roof.

Since the ceasefire, I've really learned how to listen to people's points of view without getting hot.

It's an unfortunate aspect of being human, our intransigence is.

I'm sick of the pain, the hurt, and the suffering, this despite how passionate I am in my views.

I'm just desperately hoping that some lasting peace can be achieved in my time, in our time.

Slán, síocháin agus beannachtaí,

Pádraig

If you're a republican in Ireland, I'd recommend buying bigger shoes, apparently.

So, let me get this straight...a couple of Englishmen, back in 72 robbed a bank, with an intent of discrediting the republican movement. (Intent - I'm assuming this is conjecture? Is there an accurate historical record?) Which it sounds like it did.

And this heist looks like it's doing the same thing, except the security laws are still in place. The current issue is that they believe the people in negotiations knew about the robbery, and thus they can't be part of the process.

If they knew about it, wouldn't they be arrested as an accessory? Honestly, if the negotiations go through, and there was a guilty party from the IRA, there would be less of a reason to protect the guy who "almost" derailed a hoped-for peace. If they did know about it, wouldn't you rather have a peace, and then call them on it?

This is the important bit. A whole generation have grown up, without the worst of the activities that went on in the previous decades. Belfast has seen some major changes and was shortlisted for European City of Culture. I just hope that this isn't all thrown away.

My sympathy has always lied with the Sinn Fien side, but I felt that the IRA have been very disapointing, moving too little or too slowly towards peace.

In the time of David Trimble in charge, he seemed to make many political compromises and yet the IRA refused to publiclly destroy weapons. The IRA's bargaining position often seems like that of a hormonal teenager; the emerging sense of decent thinking is too often overriden by childish belligerence.

I only wonder how much the IRA has converted from a political party to a criminal organisation.

The IRA would have decomissioned if the fuckin DUP and Michael McDowell hadn't kept saying "Don't bother cause it won't be enough anyway"
What do you expect them to do? They were making a realistic offer to essentially disband and now they have been antagonised enough to threaten a return to Violence.

The politicians in this instance threw away a chance at lasting peace for absolutley nothing.

McDowell wanted committment to "An end to criminality" which was basically asking the IRA to admit that they have been criminals all along. That was Never going to happen! They were so close to the IRA giving up all their weapons and disbanding, for the first time ever, there were noises coming from Sinn Fein that 'the war is over' The IRA are not needed anymore'. If they could have just waited a little longer than they could have pursued any 'criminality' by IRA members the same way they pursue other criminals without any political sensitivities.

They threw the fucking thing away, and if bombs start going off it's Bertie Ahern, Michael mcDowell and Ian Paisley's fault.

Whoever is to blame here, let's just hope that they can put their differences aside and get the peace process back on track. I don't think that anyone would benefit from a return to the days where the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland openly committed terrorist acts.

The DUP would.

Please don't hate me for pointing out the only real solution: Prostetants go back to Britain. Just give them their country back and there would be no problems, eh? Just like the struggle between Israel and the Palestinians in the "Occupied Territories, when you take away someone's home, you better just flat-out crush and kill them (like the U.S. did with the native americans) else they are gonna fight and fight and fight for untold generations.

I did't make these rules - history does. And history - ancient through modern is unwaiveringly and consistently clear: When people identify themselves by their race or religion, it is a zero-sum game. Someone is gonna win, someone is gonna lose. The losers will fight back with all means possible. And when "Northern Ireland" was artificially structured with a permanent minority, just what the fuck did anyone expect to happen? Were they (or the the Palestinians for that matter) just supposed to accept their lot as second-class citizens?

Kill 'em all or go home. Or suffer a permanent low-grade semi-violent resistance.

But that isnt a real solution.

Sure it is! Look how much Germany spent on reunification. Offer a buy-out with a 10 year time horizon until reunifying Northern with the rest of Ireland. After another decade or so of Catholic gloating and Protestant protesting things would settle down.

Done and done. Now will anyone have the courage to recognize the truth and suggest something like this? Probably not. Too bad, though. A Nobel Peace Prize awaits...