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Michael_J_Totten

Michael_J_Totten

Iraq
February 2004

DEC 28, 2004 03:50 PM

Jan Egeland, U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs, said Western nations are too stingy with promised aid in the wake of the horrific tsunami in Asia.

The Bush administration yesterday pledged $15 million to Asian nations hit by a tsunami that has killed more than 22,500 people, although the United Nations' humanitarian-aid chief called the donation "stingy."

"The United States, at the president's direction, will be a leading partner in one of the most significant relief, rescue and recovery challenges that the world has ever known," said White House deputy press secretary Trent Duffy.

But U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.

"It is beyond me why are we so stingy, really," the Norwegian-born U.N. official told reporters. "Christmastime should remind many Western countries at least, [of] how rich we have become."


I agree that 15 million wonÂ’t be nearly enough. The U.S. can certainly give more than that. But no one has even a clue yet how bad the destruction is, how much money and manpower will be needed to repair the damage, which countries will need more help than others, etc. The promise of 15 million dollars in aid isnÂ’t the final polish on the U.S. aid package. ItÂ’s the initial off-the-cuff pledge. The dead arenÂ’t even buried yet. And besides, at least 20 million more has been ear-marked in the meantime.

Mr. Egeland took back his comments today after being smacked down by Colin Powell. And before this “Western countries are stingy meme” runs away on too many legs, here is some data from the same article.

The United Nations urged rich nations a quarter of a century ago to give away 0.7 percent of their gross domestic product every year in the form of development aid.

To date, however, just a handful of European nations, most of them in Scandinavia, actually meet that goal.

The United States, the world's largest economy, contributes about 0.13 a year of its GDP to development aid.

[...]

"We are busting our butts to help and comments like that don't reflect what we are doing," said a State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity.


Amazon.com (of all places) is accepting donations on behalf of the Red Cross. Just this one site alone has already collected more than 250,000 dollars. The amount is rising - fast. Please click here, donate, and help it rise faster.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

DEC 28, 2004 03:56 PM

as atrios points out, the cost of bush's presidential inauguration party will cost the taxpayers $30-$40 million. hopefully $15 million of relief aid will be just the beginning.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_12_26_atrios_archive.html#110424299648812469

madryan

madryan

Madison, WI
November 2002

DEC 28, 2004 04:00 PM

When Powell pledged the aid yesterday...he clearly said the INITIAL relief would be around $15 million.

I'm not sure why people can't seem to graps that...


[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 6:01PM]

Michael_J_Totten

Michael_J_Totten

Iraq
February 2004

DEC 28, 2004 04:04 PM

s5 said:
as atrios points out, the cost of bush's presidential inauguration party will cost the taxpayers $30-$40 million. hopefully $15 million of relief aid will be just the beginning.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_12_26_atrios_archive.html#110424299648812469


That's a good point of comparison. The final amount had better be higher than that. But it almost certainly will be, so it's best to hold off on this sort of thing for now.

luckyride

luckyride

Portland, OR
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 04:09 PM

$15 million towards the disaster relief is fucking chump change for the US.

We better step it up or else we will indeed be stingy (i know the US has promised more).




Note: Florida hurricanes - The Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was swamped by 1.18 million applications for emergency aid and has approved payments of $3.17 billion to date. source

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 04:37 PM

I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]

hermetica

hermetica

Cook Islands
January 2004

DEC 28, 2004 04:44 PM

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]



Oh blah blah whine whine. Only as predictable as your perpetual whining. You may want to remove that pickle- it'll make your backside feel much better, or so I hear.
And yes, $15 mil (even plus the $20 mil mentioned as follow up) is pocket change for a country as wealthy as the U.S.
whatever whatever whatever

luckyride

luckyride

Portland, OR
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 04:46 PM

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.


get off the high horse stock. the US is/was being stingy. the US is/was getting called out on it.

nobody is "bashing america". figure it out.


-luckyride


ps. cry me a river (anything but a tidal wave of tears).

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by luckyride]

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 04:47 PM

hermetica said:

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]



Oh blah blah whine whine. Only as predictable as your perpetual whining. You may want to remove that pickle- it'll make your backside feel much better, or so I hear.
And yes, $15 mil (even plus the $20 mil mentioned as follow up) is pocket change for a country as wealthy as the U.S.
whatever whatever whatever



More's on the way, and that is just government largesse. Not included is the use of military personnel and equipment to deliver and distribute aid. Private American donations will dwarf whatever the actual government donates. Not bad, but understandable considering the avalanche of international aid the US received after Florida was hit by 4 hurricanes in a month, and 9/11.

Oh, wait a minute....we didn't get shit from the rest of the world.


[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]

luckyride

luckyride

Portland, OR
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 04:49 PM

stockula said:

hermetica said:

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]



Oh blah blah whine whine. Only as predictable as your perpetual whining. You may want to remove that pickle- it'll make your backside feel much better, or so I hear.
And yes, $15 mil (even plus the $20 mil mentioned as follow up) is pocket change for a country as wealthy as the U.S.
whatever whatever whatever



More's on the way, and that is just government largesse. Not included is the use of military personnel and equipment to deliver and distribute aid. Private American donations will dwarf whatever the actual government donates. Not bad, but understandable considering the avalanche of international aid the US received after Florida was hit by 4 hurricanes in a month.

Oh, wait a minute....we didn't get shit from the rest of the world.




how many people died in florida?

McBane13

McBane13

I'm lost
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 04:59 PM

Raise taxes..HA! Kinda ballsy of him to suggest they raise taxes on us.

15 million, take it or leave it, mook..

Why don't they go whine to the E.U. , since the euro seems to be faring pretty well.

The fucking audacity.

mad

tongue

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 28, 2004 05:03 PM

luckyride said:

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.


get off the high horse stock. the US is/was being stingy. the US is/was getting called out on it.

nobody is "bashing america". figure it out.



Bullshit. America forks over $35m and is called a cheapskate. I wonder how much the EU, or China, or any other G7 country has individually pledged. But it doesn't make good copy to denounce, say, Italy for being stingy. No no no......the UN tools reserve their contempt for the US, and then have the fucking gall to say we should raise our taxes so we can better take care of the rest of the world, like it's our duty or responsibility and not Norway's. Why dont they suggest a rich country with relatively low taxes like, say, JAPAN do such a thing? Because they're taking cheap shots at America, and anti-Americanism is rampant, unthinking, and knee-jerk.

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:09 PM

well when you consider we've spent oner 100 BILLION on an unjustified war killing millions of Iraqi's , 15 million seems justified for 50,000 people i guess

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:11 PM

I am all for relief aid but I think its fucked up when a member of the UN says we should raise our taxes so that we can help out more. Fuck him!

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:14 PM

luckyride said:

stockula said:

hermetica said:

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by stockula]



Oh blah blah whine whine. Only as predictable as your perpetual whining. You may want to remove that pickle- it'll make your backside feel much better, or so I hear.
And yes, $15 mil (even plus the $20 mil mentioned as follow up) is pocket change for a country as wealthy as the U.S.
whatever whatever whatever



More's on the way, and that is just government largesse. Not included is the use of military personnel and equipment to deliver and distribute aid. Private American donations will dwarf whatever the actual government donates. Not bad, but understandable considering the avalanche of international aid the US received after Florida was hit by 4 hurricanes in a month.

Oh, wait a minute....we didn't get shit from the rest of the world.




how many people died in florida?


SO are you saying we should pay because of how many people died? Will our money bring them back? Money is used for clean up ect... not $5,000 for every dead body.

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:16 PM

stockula said:

luckyride said:

stockula said:
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone started up with the America bashing or Bush-bashing using this disaster as a pretext. So fucking predictable.


get off the high horse stock. the US is/was being stingy. the US is/was getting called out on it.

nobody is "bashing america". figure it out.



Bullshit. America forks over $35m and is called a cheapskate. I wonder how much the EU, or China, or any other G7 country has individually pledged. But it doesn't make good copy to denounce, say, Italy for being stingy. No no no......the UN tools reserve their contempt for the US, and then have the fucking gall to say we should raise our taxes so we can better take care of the rest of the world, like it's our duty or responsibility and not Norway's. Why dont they suggest a rich country with relatively low taxes like, say, JAPAN do such a thing? Because they're taking cheap shots at America, and anti-Americanism is rampant, unthinking, and knee-jerk.


Well said.

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:18 PM

hey.."you are either with us or against us"...i didn't vote for the "idiot son of an asshole"

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:19 PM

razorbladesonata said:
hey.."you are either with us or against us"...i didn't vote for the "idiot son of an asshole"


whatever Not ever thread needs to be turned into a Iraq thread.
The two are not connected and dont need to be by your comment.

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:22 PM

dkmfc said:

razorbladesonata said:
well when you consider we've spent oner 100 BILLION on an unjustified war killing millions of Iraqi's , 15 million seems justified for 50,000 people i guess


silly argument.

the thing is, the USA donates more than any other country for aid and the welfare of countries throughout the world. through NGO's, and yes sometimes even our government.

15 mil is not even close to what the US citizens will be donating before this is through.

the UN official was just wrong in his statement.

and war has nothing to do with any of this.



i was being facetious and that is not my point...the point is that we can donate large sums of money (at the taxpayers expense) for something that is not legitimate and yet a natural disaster yields not much money , or even a public statement by the sic ..prez

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:23 PM

Mike said:

razorbladesonata said:
hey.."you are either with us or against us"...i didn't vote for the "idiot son of an asshole"


whatever Not ever thread needs to be turned into a Iraq thread.
The two are not connected and dont need to be by your comment.



government is not connected to government???

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:25 PM

so Mike , you believe it is okay to kill iraqi's and pay for it , but not help out an impoverished nation who can't???

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:27 PM

dkmfc said:

dkmfc said:

razorbladesonata said:
well when you consider we've spent oner 100 BILLION on an unjustified war killing millions of Iraqi's , 15 million seems justified for 50,000 people i guess


silly argument.

the thing is, the USA donates more than any other country for aid and the welfare of countries throughout the world. through NGO's, and yes sometimes even our government.

15 mil is not even close to what the US citizens will be donating before this is through.

the UN official was just wrong in his statement.



and war has nothing to do with any of this.



also this reminds me...how many "millions" of iraqis have we killed?
maybe I'm mistaken, we haven't been using nukes have we?



by the way..we have killed millions of iraqi's with sanctions over the last 10 years and now this war...it does tie in..why won't congress just ask for 20 billion to help out???..the answer is ....because it is not in their best interests

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:29 PM

razorbladesonata said:
so Mike , you believe it is okay to kill iraqi's and pay for it , but not help out an impoverished nation who can't???


Kill Iraqi's to pay for what? Sorry, but you are not amking any sense to me.

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

DEC 28, 2004 05:30 PM

How about we get back to the topic (you know the one we were talking about before razorbladesonata hijacked it)?

[Edited on Dec 28, 2004 by Mike]

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

DEC 28, 2004 05:30 PM

the U.N. is located in which country???...................

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