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Infra

Infra

La Crosse, WI
November 2003

OCT 12, 2004 10:09 AM

According to a recently released report from Human Rights Watch, eleven members of al-Qaeda have "disappeared" while in U.S. custody. The detainees are suspected to have been moved to locations outside of the United States, denied access to the Red Cross and removed from the oversight provided by human rights organizations.

From the report's executive summary:

The prisoner was taken away in the middle of the night nineteen months ago. He was hooded and brought to an undisclosed location where he has not been heard of since. Interrogators reportedly used graduated levels of force on the prisoner, including the “water boarding” technique – known in Latin America as the “submarino” – in which the detainee is strapped down, forcibly pushed under water, and made to believe he might drown. His seven- and nine-year-old sons were also picked up, presumably to induce him to talk.

These tactics are all too common to oppressive dictatorships. The interrogators were not from a dictatorship, however, but from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The U.S.’s prisoner is Khalid Shaikh Muhammad, the alleged principal architect of the September 11 attacks. Muhammad is one of the dozen or so top al-Qaeda operatives who have simply “disappeared” in U.S. custody.

In the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, the Bush administration has violated the most basic legal norms in its treatment of security detainees. Many have been held in offshore prisons, the most well known of which is at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. As we now know, prisoners suspected of terrorism, and many against whom no evidence exists, have been mistreated, humiliated, and tortured. But perhaps no practice so fundamentally challenges the foundations of U.S. and international law as the long-term secret incommunicado detention of al-Qaeda suspects in “undisclosed locations.”

Although the report is not based on first-hand observation, it cites the testimony of "unidentified government officials" who have acknowledged the torture and mistreatment of detainees. These allegations are the latest in a string of negative reports regarding American treatment of detainees.

No one, including the reporters at Human Rights Watch, considers these individuals to be nice or good men. However, the fact that these individuals can no longer be located -- in fact, the United States has only admitted to the detention of six of the eleven mentioned individuals -- does not bode well for American credibility or future foreign relations. Most disturbing of all is the fact that these allegations, along with the previously reported abuses at Abu Ghraib and the recent allegations of torture and murder at an Afghani military base, are being used by other countries to justify the actions being carried out in their spheres of influence.

These are not nice men, to say the least. They are alleged to have committed the most diabolical criminal acts. Why, some have argued, should we care about what happens to them? First, because despite the life-saving information apparently gleaned from some of these suspects, overall the U.S. treatment of its prisoners has been a boon rather than a setback for al-Qaeda and has thereby made the world less safe from terror. As the 9/11 Commission recognized, “Allegations that the United States abused prisoners in its custody make it harder to build the diplomatic, political, and military alliances the government will need.” Second, because the U.S.’s torture and “disappearance” of its adversaries invites all the unsavory governments in the world to do the same – indeed countries from Sudan to Zimbabwe have already cited Abu Ghraib and other U.S. actions to justify their own practices or to blunt criticism.

If true, these allegations entail a violation of several international agreements regarding incommunicado detention, including the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (which the United States has ratified) and sections of both the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions.

Mark Mansfield, a CIA representative, stated that the agency has not yet seen the report and declined further comment.

Lenore

Lenore

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

OCT 12, 2004 11:18 AM

Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.

SilverRevolver

SilverRevolver

United Kingdom
May 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:18 AM

There are no Al-Qaeda opratives in our custody, there were never Al-Qaeda opratives in our custody...

SilverRevolver

SilverRevolver

United Kingdom
May 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:18 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



"An eye for an eye makes the whole wold blind."

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 11:19AM]

rottenart

rottenart

Norman, OK
February 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:19 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



who? the US Gov't?

Lenore

Lenore

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

OCT 12, 2004 11:26 AM

rottenart said:

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



who? the US Gov't?




Don't give me that conspiracy nonsense.

rottenart

rottenart

Norman, OK
February 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:26 AM

what conspiracy? are you saying the US government isn't murdering people needlessly?

Lenore

Lenore

SUICIDEGIRL

Oregon, USA

OCT 12, 2004 11:27 AM

Thought_Police said:

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



"An eye for an eye makes the whole wold blind."

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 11:19AM]



No...it's not that I think whatever might have been done was right.......but I'm certainly not going to be losing any sleep over it.

SilverRevolver

SilverRevolver

United Kingdom
May 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:28 AM

Lenore said:

Thought_Police said:

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



"An eye for an eye makes the whole wold blind."

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 11:19AM]



No...it's not that I think whatever might have been done was right.......but I'm certainly not going to be losing any sleep over it.


Well I very rarely lose sleep over much of anything, but then I'm a really bad person. wink

beedlebaum

beedlebaum

Brooklyn, NY
March 2003

OCT 12, 2004 11:29 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



Yeah, its a lot better that they've disappeared so that we cant interrogate them for information.

Or, you know, find out if they actually DID what they are accused of.

rottenart

rottenart

Norman, OK
February 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:29 AM

so you just don't care that we're breaking international law and possibly killing people without due cause?

SilverRevolver

SilverRevolver

United Kingdom
May 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:32 AM

rottenart said:
so you just don't care that we're breaking international law and possibly killing people without due cause?



Word, if "the most powerful nation" in the world can't be expected to follow international law, then what country can?

dubya

dubya

I'm lost
September 2003

OCT 12, 2004 11:37 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



Just because the U.S. governmnet has someone in custody doesn't mean they have been proven guilty of anything.

dubya

dubya

I'm lost
September 2003

OCT 12, 2004 11:38 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



Just because the U.S. governmnet has someone in custody doesn't mean they have been proven guilty of anything.

smithers_jones

smithers_jones

I'm lost
November 2003

OCT 12, 2004 11:45 AM

Lenore said:
Well, they shouldn't have murdered all those people.



Human rights schmuman rights. Anyways, isn’t there some clause that says "bad people" don't have any? And shouldn't we just take the Bush administration on their word that these people are guilty of something? I mean they have been truthful and straightforward about so many things, right? And I'm sure the fact that 5,000 Arab and Muslim men that were arrested after 9/11 in the US and detained sometimes for years without charge or trial and which has thus far led to the conviction of NO ONE is a complete fluke and is well within the statistical margin of error.

joeythenifty

joeythenifty

Wallingford, VT
October 2004

OCT 12, 2004 11:47 AM

The CIA is authorized by the government to commit serious crimes, including murder. International laws which ban torture like the kind used by the CIA are simply pressures put on the agencies to keep those practices to a minimum, as far as I see it. There are nonetheless still some CIA interrogators who are trained to do this sort of thing, so it's obviously not that taboo. The disappearance still worries me though, since the missing persons may have been killed, or simply let go without much ado (which would mean the interrogation was unwarrented).

Akrasia

Akrasia

Ireland
August 2004

OCT 12, 2004 12:04 PM

if these people are guilty, try them in a legal court and allow them to defend themselves. Don't just disappear them like a tinpot ditatorship.

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 by Akrasia]

Lain

Lain

Astoria, NY
April 2004

OCT 12, 2004 12:15 PM

Akrasia said:
if these people are guilty, try them in a legal court and allow them to defend themselves. Don't just disappear them like a tinpot ditatorship.

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 by Akrasia]



There is no "If these people are guilty" (though i do see your point)

These animals are guilty of nearly every horrible crime (including genocide) that a man can think of.

They "Disapeared" possibly by the hands of an M4 Assault Rifle curtosey of my tax dolars and the US Government. Good.

Al-Queda gets no mercy from me.


[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 3:38PM]

daveglss79828

daveglss79828

Miami, FL
January 2004

OCT 12, 2004 12:49 PM

i have to go with this answer:

So?

One of the guys missing is the guy who thought up the 9/11 attacks. Better he be missing in US custody than in another nations custody...

ItwasDuke

ItwasDuke

New York, NY
March 2004

OCT 12, 2004 01:03 PM

Thought_Police said:

rottenart said:
so you just don't care that we're breaking international law and possibly killing people without due cause?



Word, if "the most powerful nation" in the world can't be expected to follow international law, then what country can?



Thank you, It's amazing to see how many people will support violation of international law and torture. I always thought that our unwillingness to do this bullshit made us the good guys. surreal

legionnaire

legionnaire

Belgium
November 2003

OCT 12, 2004 01:09 PM

Lain said:

Akrasia said:
if these people are guilty, try them in a legal court and allow them to defend themselves. Don't just disappear them like a tinpot ditatorship.

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 by Akrasia]



There is no "If these people are guilty" (though i do see your point)

These animals are guilty of nearly every horrible crime (including genocide) that a man can think of.

They "Disapeared" possibly by the hands of an M4 Assault Rifle curtosey of my tax dolars and the US Government. Good.

Al-Queda gets no mercy from me.


These people were suspected al-Qaeda agents. Suspected. As in "we think they might have been but haven't proven it yet." Hence the fact that they've been detained. "Presumption of innocence" ring a bell for anyone? You can't make the claim that someone is a terrorist until you've proven it. Something our government has been particularly poor at doing thus far.

Akrasia

Akrasia

Ireland
August 2004

OCT 12, 2004 01:37 PM

Innocent until proven guilty is a manta not designed to protect the guilty, but the innocent. The right to a fair trial is not something that can be given up just because you 'know' somebody is guilty because once this precedent is broken, eventually no innocent person anywhere is safe.

[Edited on Oct 12, 2004 by Akrasia]

avenger

avenger

Providence, RI
June 2007

OCT 12, 2004 01:37 PM

rely on facts and proof? bah. humbug.

Projecta119

Projecta119

Stewartstown, PA
January 2004

OCT 12, 2004 01:47 PM

If it were up to me... only their heads would disappear, after I made them eat a whole plate of bacon!

Akrasia

Akrasia

Ireland
August 2004

OCT 12, 2004 02:15 PM

let me guess, you're a bush voter. and you go to church and you believe in morality and forgiveness and all those other christian ideas

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