Mumia's Thoughts on Presidential Debate

I was listening to Free Speech Radio News tonight and they had a radio address from Mumia Abu Jamal. The report was an essay written by Mumia containing his thoughts on not only the presidential debate, but also presidential politics, and realities as well. I thought I would post a link to it here. I will not critique or comment on it, he can say it better then I ever could.

http://prisonradio.org/maj/10_2_04debate.html

enjoy

Is it common for liberals to take advice/solace/guidance from convicted murderers?

Just curious.

Is it common for conservatives to attack the message-giver rather than the message?

Well, when the message giver has no credibility, the message is meaningless.

Someday, when your rephrase that, it will be a real argument.

I see no link between credibility and meaning.

By the way, it is a logical fallacy called argumentum ad hominem.

Try taking a class on logic and debate.

I see no link between lack of credibility and outright lies for the mere fact that you can discern either separate from the other.

For an icon of systematic oppression, Mumia sure is trite.

It's fitting. Being an icon is also trite.

the conservatives take it from the mass murderer bush though. there isn't a war crimes tribunal where his invasion of iraq would go unpunished.

mumia is a great intellect, his words are as relevant as the next mans. if you hear what he has to say, and can look upon it with an open mind, you'd be inclined to agree.

walkswithbears is right. regardless of mumia's "credibility" it doesn't take away from the fact that he's got a valid point. who cares if it's trite. the debates themselves were trite.

Sorry, there's better places to get your political commentary than a convicted cop-killer.

It's of course typical that conservatives change the subject, rather than address anything that challenges their flawed values or sheds light on their track record for screwing over the public. Why talk about the message when you can just obscure, decieve, and tell everyone that everything is just fine.

this is the whole attack the credibility, ignore the message problem. "i have no argument, thefore i'll attack the messenger." i've noticed that no one has tried to refute what mumia said.

edit: too slow

[Edited on Oct 06, 2004 by skinwalker]

it's easier for them to do that rather than be accountable for their record. considering the record, it's not difficult to see why.

Neocons: the new Black... Plague

I notice that no one has decided to point out that Mumia's commentary is not pro-democrat.

I think he has a point when it comes to the WEAK soundbite nature of the debate. He MIGHT have a point about the imperialism too.

This is absolutely amazing!

First, the fact that no one, not even the individuals that seem to be somewhat in support of Mumia's cause seem to be willing to argue for, or against what Mumia ACTUALLY SAID, is amazing. These last 18 comments are like a vignette of the social realities of this planet. IE we are so set in our ways that we are unable even for a second to see past our own thumbs.

Much like drunks we stumble into arguments with a preset, predetermined statement...

"Mumia is a cop killer."
"Conservatives are quick to judge."

What kind of argument is this?

It is empty

I would, however like to respond myself...

Stiles and all the other's who think like him:

I understand the pain of loss, but over the last twenty years the argument against Mumia has become nothing more then a passion driven witch hunt. He is your icon for the brutality committed against innocent police officers. I understand your pain, but your passion has limited your vision! I have never once, after seven years of being involved in Mumia's case, listened to a credible LEGAL argument of Mumia's guilt. The case, as it stands today, that Mumia is guilty, is mired in the passions and pain of individual loss (you need someone to blame, and are willing to blame any black man, rather then do the hard work of proving "beyond a reasonable doubt").

A completely non-biased lawyer, jury, and judge in ANY situation would find Mumia innocent in a re-trial based purely on PHYSICAL evidence...(if. you would like to actually debate this ((not passionately spout out predetermined catch phrases)) I would be willing).

The reality though is that the police union of Philly and the Fraternal Order of Police have more political sway in the great founding city then the common man. And so, to wish for actually progress and justice, when greed, corruption, and political influence are on hand is ultimately more difficult then screaming "hang him" in a fit of passion.

You all however have shown your lack of intellect by being completely un-willing to listen to an individual's statements prior to judging them. This fact was not only illustrated in your dull, and predictable responses to my post, but also in your lack of any concrete evidence as to why we should not actually hear what this man has to say. You do yourself more discredit then I ever could.

Censorship is a tool of the weak willed and fearful, and all of you have lined up on the choping block to show your true colors!

Thank you though, for you have illustrated what kind of people you are.

On another note, for those that wish to talk about what Mumia actually said, rather then who Mumia MAY OR MAY NOT BE i would encourage you to listen to the broadcast.

[Edited on Oct 06, 2004 by heresy200]

[Edited on Oct 06, 2004 by heresy200]

Since I was singled out here -

I am satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the man is guilty of the crime he was charged with. I am a native of philadelphia and have lived here for most of my life (30 years+).

My grand-aunt lived on Osage avenue (Move II) , my uncle lived in Powelton Village (Move I). I saw firsthand what the Move (II) people did, how they acted towards their neighbors, the city and the police. Their behavior, collectively and individually, does not inspire me to believe their propaganda.

I'm not going to rehash the case here, there are better places that have already done so - and this has been dealt with in numerous threads here before.

I stand behind my statement:

N.B. - I do disagree with the death penalty, both for him and others. Life in prison works just fine instead.


Feel free to disagree, if you like.

PS - you have no idea "what kind of people we are". You also have no idea what the "common man" thinks here, and nobody is "censoring" you, or him.

Get off your high horse before you get a nosebleed.

Fuck Mumia.

Anyone who still listens to a syllable that this cop-killing murderous bastard has to say only feeds into his self-perceived celebrity.

Let him rot to death in prison.

P.S. I don't like Mumia as is he is a murderous-asshole-wannabe-martyr.



[Edited on Oct 07, 2004 by crispy]

No nosebleed here, just pointing out the obvious!

In fact don't think I ever used the words "'what kind of people we are'" in my entire arguement.

You seem less willing to listen to Move's argument, calling it propaganda, and more willing to embrace the Fraternal Order's argument (or their propaganda)!

As mother also said "Progaganda is, as propaganda does."

Mumia wasn't involved in Move other then in temrs of documentation. It was after his conviction that that powder keg exploded, don't try and pull that one on us. His only involvement with that group was his documentation of the conflicts that they were involved in with the Philly PD. Saying he is a move member for this is like saying that the COPS camera man is guilty for the police brutality commited on thier show.

Oh, and Stiles, I singled you out because your comment was one of the most abrasive as well as the closest to the end of the comments