Abortion... Yes? No?

I go to Temple University in Philadelphia. A few weeks back, a group known as the genocide awarness project (GAP) stationed itself on my campus, directly in front of the main library here.

Gigantic photos (a/b 1/3 the size of billboards) of aborted fetuses were shown, directly next to photos of the holocaust, rwanda, etc...

Their point is that "it is the same thing."

I tend to disagree.

Also, I am the editor of the school paper here. This means I get a lot of letters "to the editor" from psychos, conspiracy theorists, etc. from every side of the fence. From white supremacy groups, to socialists, I hear from them all. They all want free press.

I got the following letter today. It will not be printed simply for the fact that it does not directly address the editorial content of my newspaper. I wanted to get the thoughts and feelings of SGs.

P.S.: Yes, it is his real name.

Dear Editor,


Choice. This is such a weighted word these days. It is most well know in the
phrase "A women's right to choose". Is it anyone's right to chose the death of
another? No! Then why is it today it is the right of women, couple, or whoever
it is to end the life of another human being by abortion. Yes abortion is
murder. This has been an especially hot topic around campus the last few weeks
and will continue to be a hot topic like it has always been. I know that many
on campus disagree with the statement abortion is murder as seen by recent
articles in Temple News. So lets really look at the issue.
Since 1973 when abortion was legalized in the United States around 45 million
babies have been killed. That is about 4,000 a day or one in every possible
three births. Here in Philadelphia during 2001 Planned Parenthood in Center
City performed 4127 abortions and over the last 5 years Temple Hospital has
performed 89 abortions. These figures themselves are staggering. But even more
staggering is the fact that in the state of Virginia it is illegal to kill an
unborn Bald Eagle by smashing a Bald Eagle's egg. However, in the State of
Virginia it is perfectly legal to rip a baby limb by limb, in some cases, out of
its mother's womb. Have we digressed to the point that the life of an animal is
more important than the life of a human being? Further more, after six weeks a
baby's heart is formed and beating. Babies born prematurely in the 24 week of
pregnancy have lived and are health members of society today yet at 24 weeks at
least 8 clinics in the Philadelphia area will!
gladly dispose of your baby.
The pictures that Genocide Awareness Project (GAP) had on campus Oct. 14 and 15
were completely real. Many were in fact of 1st trimester abortions. During the
first trimester a baby's body and limbs can be distinguished although the baby
is very small (not much bigger than a dime). Yet abortionists will literally
cut and then suck these babies out of the mother. Abortion is not a pretty
thing. It is a bloody, murderous process.
Wake up! We did not come here by chance, God created us (Ps 119:13). We have a
purpose and it is not to be killed in our mother's womb. What crime did these
innocent babies commit to deserve death? Why are we treating them like
criminals and trash? Why would anyone want to support organizations on Temple's
Campus that support and claim that such a sick act of murder is a choice. Stand
up against this outrage do not let the blood of the innocent be spilled on you
too through support of death. To those that support abortion I have one thing
to say. Thank God that your mother did not consider you a mass of unwanted
tissue but instead bore you into this world because she knew that you were a
human being.

With Great Concern, Joe Christi

Yes i absolutely support abortion, and frankly i think that more people should have them. what i think a lot of hardcore anti abortion people forget to take into account is the quality of life issue. if some super poor chick gets knocked up, the chances of her being able to better herself with a kid are slim to none. and having a child grow up in a shitty environment is considerably worse IMO than that baby being "murdered" before it's born, because it has a negative affect on an entire society.

if someobody's god thinks it's wrong, then let their fucking god address the problem.

Just 9 months? more like 19 years. It takes a hell of a lot to raise a kid and frankly a good majority of the peope who do it, suck at it. and a child who'se fucked up in the head because of poor parenting is a hell of a lot worse to the world than abortion.


EDIT: i'm saying 19 years if she keeps the kid. you're right about 9 months if she gives it up. but even still, 9 months can seriously screw somebody up. i know that if i was out of a job for even a slight period of time i'd probably lose my car, my house, and a lot of the shit i've got. I just think that society/government has absolutely no right to tell a woman what to do with her body.


[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by Booshanky]

well, that may be a nice little hypothetical right there, but that's usually not how it happens.


1. Men and women actually learn that having unprotected sex has consequences. The man responsible has to work his ass off helping to pay for her while she's pregnant, and she has to suffer through carrying the child.

more like, "Man leaves and leaves the woman to pay for everything herself because it interferes with his party schedule".

2. Society--friends, acquaintances, family--need to support these women by caring for them however they can: everything from donating time to help them work, go to school, feel supported, eat, do laundry, all the stuff that becomes much harder during pregnancy.


What if the woman does not have anyone around like that to support her? there are just so many variables that can go wrong. also, lets look at it this way, lets say the woman decides to have an abortion because she does not want to have her party life interfered with, or she does not want her body to go to shit as it often does after having a kid. i think it's a much more responsible decision than having the kid and resenting it all your life and having that kid grow up all fucked up in the head.

3. The government needs to subsidize these women DURING pregnancy so that they can go on uninterrupted as much as possible. I had a history professor who had no problem teaching and exercising up to her 8th month of pregnancy. I'm sure anyone could do that, as long as they know when it gets really rough, there will be public funding to help them through. This is fine and dandy for the women who want children, but what about hte ones who dont want them? I think it just comes down to what the government has the right to tell people to do.



[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by Booshanky]

well, look, i think if we can bring society up to a point where people will make the right decisions then even if abortion was paid for by the government, nobody would use it because we were all good decision makers. as lovely as that sounds, we've got a long way to go.

here's my point simple.

I just think that the effect of having an abortion is far less harmfull overall to society as opposed to raising a child in a shitty environment.

that and i dont want the government telling me what to do with my body.

No matter what your friendly neighborhood christian fundamentalist tells you, a fetus is not a child.

frankly, all i will say on the issue is that

a) a woman should have rights over her own body and

b) as I have a penis, and cannot understand pregnancy, or being pregnant OR having an abortion, I don't think I (or any other man) should have any jurisdiction over this issue. period.

Here's another way to present the abortion question:

Consider two people, A & B. If person B is biologically dependent on person A for survival, but person A can exist independently without person B, does person B need consent from person A to exist?

In the abortion issue, person B is the fetus and person A is the mother.

The reason I phrased the abortion issue in this manner is to question at least two concepts.

1) Is it murder if person B cannot exist in the first place without a host?

2) Does one have complete privacy over their own body or can they be forced to share it with another living being without their consent?


[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by doh]

i'm 100% pro choice

it should be completely up to the mother as to what to do with the unborn child

i don't know who all of you are, but it's interesting that the responses here seem to be from males only. maybe i'm mistaken.

anyway, the GAP came to my school (indiana university) as well. i never bothered to look at it because i didn't think they deserved my attention.

in my current events class in high school, we each had to do a project on some social issue. naturally, the christian boy did his on abortion. he showed the most horrifying video of an abortion being performed. there were girls openly sobbing in the class. i could hardly watch it. they showed a trash can of burnt and charred baby carcasses. it wasn't until later that i realized it was propagandist bullshit that could only be third trimester abortions. i think this is what anti-abortionist groups generally focus on when trying to expose the "realities" of abortion, yet third trimester abortions account for a miniscule amount of abortions performed.

these groups are ridiculous. it's ridiculous that i was led to believe all abortions are performed by ripping a soon-to-be-born fetus into pieces and burning it into an unrecognizable state.

i'm glad we have the right to choose. it's not for everyone. nobody should be forced into it. but the option needs to be there.

In the way I used the term biological in my original post, that is exactly what I meant. In the statement I made earlier, the term biologically depedent means that they are physically interconnected in such a manner that the fetus would die without the mother.

[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by doh]

I disagree. We are all humans and we all understand concepts of life, privacy, quality of life, ethics, and morality.

um, i had an abortion and i was physically over it about three months later (damn hormones), and i never suffered any emotional problems. it is one of my goals to make sure a woman never has to feel bad about her decision, and to keep it legal and available.

I think I'm missing your point. Don't you think it's possible for things to change so that abortion is illegal?

I don't buy into the gender argument. It's like saying, I can't legislate on serial killers because I'm not a serial killer.

These anti-abortion groups, instead of standing around on campuses flashing their blow-ups of fetuses torn to pieces should be at the troubled youth or homeless shelters helping the fucking people already here. It's like the second a child is born for these anti-abortion groups, no matter how bleak a future it's apparent that child is going to have, the issue is dissolved at that point. That kid is on its own.

By the way, I should make my own personal position clear.

I'm PRO-CHOICE. Mostly because I believe that every person has complete privacy over their own bodies.

To me, it's still questionable whether it's murder or not. I don't think this will ever get resolved to my satisfaction.
Why? Because the concept of a fetus in the first 2 trimesters being a person is questionable to me.

Hence, the privacy question overrides this ambiguity for me.

I don't buy into the gender argument at all... as stated in previous posts.


[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by doh]

Umm.. I was trying to make an analogy to the implied justification for you argument: "Men should not have a voice on abortion since it's a women's issue."

It seems this argument can be justified only if you are claiming the following principle:

One cannot legislate on another group unless they are a member of that group.

Hence, my analogy of serial killers.

oops

[Edited on Oct 30, 2002 by doh]