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sixblueten

sixblueten

Healdsburg, CA
July 2004

SEP 08, 2004 11:50 AM

I'm asking for help, not for an argument:

Does anyone get a good feel for Kerry's view on the "Israel Problem?" I cannot get a read on the man's opinion. That is, his public view is pretty middle-of-the-road, as would be expected. Yet, what about his personal convictions?

SirPsychoSexy

SirPsychoSexy

Ridgewood, NJ
January 2004

SEP 08, 2004 12:03 PM

I think he is for not letting it completely melt down to become a beacon for the onset of the apocalypse skull

Thats better than some people I guess.. whatever

Sean

Sean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 08, 2004 03:36 PM

Both candidates publish their positions on most issues on their website:

John Kerry: Strengthening Israel’s Security
and Bolstering the US-Israel Special Relationship

John Kerry has been at the forefront of the fight for Israel’s security during his nineteen years in the US Senate. His pro-Israel voting record is second to none.

John Kerry did not wait until he was running for president of the United States to visit Israel - he has been there on numerous occasions throughout his public life. Through his meetings with Israeli political and military leaders – and especially his interaction with ordinary Israelis – he has experienced the everyday security threat that Israelis face and this has deepened his understanding of Israel’s security needs. In short, John Kerry will never do anything to compromise that security.

John Kerry believes that particularly in uncertain times like these we must reaffirm and indeed strengthen our special relationship with Israel, our most steadfast friend and ally in the region. His commitment to a safe, secure, democratic Jewish state of Israel is unwavering. It comes from a personal belief that Israel’s cause must be America’s cause.

John Kerry understands that anti-Semitism masked in anti-Israel rhetoric is a dangerous trend threatening both Israel and Jewish communities around the world. John Kerry has always fought against anti-Semitism and as president, he will take governments around the world to task for failing to address this escalating threat.

Israel’s Right to Respond to Terrorism: Kerry supports Israel’s right of self defense to eliminate threats to its citizens, including actions taken by Israel against Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups in Gaza. In spring 2002, when Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield to root out Palestinian terrorists and dismantle the Palestinian infrastructure, Kerry co-sponsored a resolution expressing solidarity with Israel and called for continued assistance in strengthening Israel's homeland defenses.

Supporting Israel’s Plan to Withdraw from Gaza: John Kerry expressed support for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s unprecedented plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip. He recognizes that in any final settlement for Israel to remain a Jewish State, Palestinians must settle in a future Palestinian State rather than in Israel, and that in light of demographic realities, a number of settlement blocks will likely become a part of Israel.

Fighting Against Saudi Government Anti-Semitism: John Kerry has forcefully spoken out against anti-Semitic statements by Saudi government officials, saying it calls into question their commitment to combating terrorism and pledging that as president, he will never permit these kinds of attacks to go unanswered.

Israel’s Security Fence Is A Legitimate Right of Self Defense: John Kerry supports the construction of Israel’s security fence to stop terrorists from entering Israel. The security fence is a legitimate act of self defense erected in response to the wave of terror attacks against Israeli citizens. He believes the security fence is not a matter for the International Court of Justice.

New Palestinian Leadership: John Kerry believes that Yasser Arafat is a failed leader and unfit partner for peace and therefore has supported his total isolation. He has demanded a new, responsible Palestinian leadership, committed to ending the violence and fighting terror – in word and in deed – and will work tirelessly to ensure that this new leadership emerges.

Foreign Aid to Israel: John Kerry has always voted to maintain critical foreign aid to our ally Israel, resisting any attempts to cut it over his years in the Senate. In the early 1990s, he fought President Bush when his administration restricted aid to Israel through the loan guarantees program.

The UN and other International Organizations: John Kerry has always believed the US must stand solidly behind Israel at the UN and other international organizations. He recognizes the UN must establish more credibility on Arab-Israeli matters and would never hesitate to wield a US veto on the Security Council in the face of anti-Israel/anti-Zionist resolutions.

Fighting to Move the American Embassy to Jerusalem: John Kerry has long advocated moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, Israel’s indisputable capital. In 1999, he signed a letter taking President Clinton to task for not moving the embassy.

Maintaining Israel’s Military Superiority: John Kerry understands that America must guarantee Israel’s military superiority and supports carefully restricting arms sales to Arab countries in the region. He opposed the sale of Maverick missiles and F-15 fighter planes to Saudi Arabia.

Financing Terror: Kerry will demand accountability and action from Arab and European countries to eliminate sources of funds that flow freely to terrorist organizations. Kerry strongly believes the US must “end the sweetheart relationship with a bunch of Arab countries that still allow money to move to Hamas and Hezbollah and Al Aqsa Brigade.”

Isolating and Punishing Regimes of Terror: Kerry co-sponsored the Syria Accountability Act, which includes a ban on the export of military and dual use items to Syria. He believes that “we must ensure that Syria does not acquire and distribute additional weapons thereby exasperating tensions in the Middle East, raising potential threats to Israel, and undermining arms control.”

Preventing a Nuclear Armed Iran: John Kerry understands that a nuclear armed Iran is unacceptable. He believes the failure of the Bush Administration to thwart Iran’s efforts to amass nuclear weapons poses a real threat to the safety and security of Israel, the US and the rest of the free world.

Guiding Principles for John Kerry on Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict:


• As President, John Kerry will never force Israel to make concessions that compromise its security.
• As President, John Kerry would not expect Israel to negotiate without a credible Palestinian partner for peace - something that unfortunately does not exist today.
• As President, John Kerry would work to ensure and embrace strong bi-partisan support for matters concerning the security of the State of Israel.
• As President, John Kerry will provide the political and military support for Israel to fight terrorism. He understands that just as Israel has stood with the US in our fight against terrorism and Al-Qaeda, the US must stand firmly with Israel as it fights against terrorism and terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbollah. We must continue to stand shoulder to shoulder against terrorism and state sponsors of terrorism.
• As President, John Kerry will work to strengthen the economy of Israel, an economy that has suffered dramatically over the last few years during the latest violence in the region. In particular, he will act to jump start the high tech sector working to adapt many of the innovative “technologies” Israel has invented to combat terrorism. He will work to strengthen the US homeland while simultaneously strengthening the Israeli economy.
• As President, John Kerry will strengthen the working relationship and cooperation between the US Department of Homeland Security and the Israeli security establishment to share technology and lessons learned. In addition, he will establish a commission to see what the US can learn to strengthen the security of our homeland from Israel’s experience and success on matters such as airline and port security, nuclear plants and chemical storage facilities.
• As President, John Kerry will implement measures and programs to improve the social, economic, and political conditions throughout the Middle East as part of a comprehensive multilateral effort to move the region forward towards democracy and freedom and away from Islamic fundamentalism, including a wide-ranging Middle East trade agenda.

Source: John Kerry for President

[Edited on Sep 08, 2004 by Sean]

sixblueten

sixblueten

Healdsburg, CA
July 2004

SEP 08, 2004 05:28 PM

Sean, many thanks for that. I've read these words on his site, but I wonder what Kerry really thinks. It's political suicide to do anything but support Israel publicly. I know it says here and there that he "personally believes" such and such. . .but anyone with any brains and knowledge of history knows that continued support of Israel means continued terrorist attacks against the United States. I wonder how long we will continue to put the health and welfare of another nation in front of our own. And beforeI get slammed as an anti-Semite (of Jewish heritage . . oh, the irony!), it should be stated that a lack of support for the nation of Israel (move it to Utah?) is not remotely linked to anti-Semitism. I'm an ultra-liberal in a desperate search for a liberal Presidential candidate who puts peace and safety in front of pouring billions into a nation simply because of its strategic location in the Middle East.

Hakkyogoonae

Hakkyogoonae

Indiana, PA
August 2004

SEP 08, 2004 08:00 PM

Pat Buchanan was on Meet the Press on Sunday, and on some points, he actually sounded sensible. The gist of one portion of his new book was that Islamic militant terrorists do not attack us b/c of our lifestyle (Hollywood, consumerism, etc.) but b/c of our government's support of Israel. Tim Russert was taken aback; I kind of took it for granted that, while lauding Israel publicly, members of the US media elite at least recognized the hypocracy of supporting Sharonn and fighting the "War on Terror" at the same time.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

SEP 08, 2004 10:03 PM

sixblueten said:
I'm asking for help, not for an argument:

Does anyone get a good feel for Kerry's view on the "Israel Problem?" I cannot get a read on the man's opinion.



What? You can't get a consistent coherent position on political issues from John Kerry? How odd.


[Edited on Sep 08, 2004 by stockula]

darwinsjoke

darwinsjoke

Virginia Beach, VA
July 2003

SEP 08, 2004 10:07 PM

stockula said:

sixblueten said:
I'm asking for help, not for an argument:

Does anyone get a good feel for Kerry's view on the "Israel Problem?" I cannot get a read on the man's opinion.



What? You can't get a consistent coherent position on political issues from John Kerry? How odd.


[Edited on Sep 08, 2004 by stockula]


read sean's post above stock.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

SEP 08, 2004 10:13 PM

Why bother? Kerry will revise it according to whoever he's talking to this week.

SirPsychoSexy

SirPsychoSexy

Ridgewood, NJ
January 2004

SEP 08, 2004 10:18 PM

Let us hope he never talks to you then.

Pip

Pip

Framingham, MA
OLD SKOOL

SEP 08, 2004 10:32 PM

stockula said:
Why bother? Kerry will revise it according to whoever he's talking to this week.




Why bother, Bush will never admit that the reason we invaded Iraq was for Oil. He's change the rational behind invading Iraq at least 4 times each to suit the current political climate.

Bush flip-flops as much if not more than Kerry.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 09, 2004 02:07 AM

stockula said:
Why bother? Kerry will revise it according to whoever he's talking to this week.



I'd like to see you dispute the points Kerry's statement makes about his voting record regarding Israel. I'm not saying it's bulletproof, I'm just saying that I'd like to see you, for fucking ONCE, say something that isn't either total bullshit or completely baseless. Where did Kerry's position on Israel flip-flop?

Edit: Sorry, I think you said something about The Simpsons once that made sense. But it would still be nice to see you back up one of your asinine political statements with some facts.

[Edited on Sep 09, 2004 by bean]

f_a_hayek

f_a_hayek

Tucson, AZ
December 2003

SEP 09, 2004 02:16 AM

this might be the only time i can actually agree with Johnny boy. a few caveats however....


In spring 2002, when Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield to root out Palestinian terrorists and dismantle the Palestinian infrastructure, Kerry co-sponsored a resolution expressing solidarity with Israel and called for continued assistance in strengthening Israel's homeland defenses.



so he supports the Bush doctrine of preeption?

Israel’s Security Fence Is A Legitimate Right of Self Defense: John Kerry supports the construction of Israel’s security fence to stop terrorists from entering Israel



upi reported....

"I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government's decision to build a barrier off the 'Green Line,' cutting deeply into Palestinian areas," Kerry told members of the Arab-American Institute in October 2003, a month after he had announced his candidacy. "We do not need another barrier to peace." He went on to say that the barrier was a "provocative and counterproductive measure" that was not in Israel's interest.




• As President, John Kerry will never force Israel to make concessions that compromise its security.
• As President, John Kerry would not expect Israel to negotiate without a credible Palestinian partner for peace - something that unfortunately does not exist today.



the new york sun aug 4, 04:

In a speech he made last December at the Council on Foreign Relations, Mr. Kerry said he would consider sending Mr. Carter or Mr. Baker as his personal envoy to make peace between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Both men are associated with using America's special relationship with Israel to pressure the nation into untenable concessions.



okay.

As President, John Kerry will provide the political and military support.... will work to strengthen the economy of Israel...... will implement measures and programs to improve the social, economic, and political conditions



and he'll give healthcare to everyone, etc. ..... and reduce the deficit and balance the budget? i dunno about that.

there is also the fact of being pro israel while trying to make nice with pro palestinian old europe.

[Edited on Sep 09, 2004 by f_a_hayek]

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 09, 2004 02:44 AM

f_a_hayek said:
this might be the only time i can actually agree with Johnny boy. a few caveats however....


In spring 2002, when Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield to root out Palestinian terrorists and dismantle the Palestinian infrastructure, Kerry co-sponsored a resolution expressing solidarity with Israel and called for continued assistance in strengthening Israel's homeland defenses.



so he supports the Bush doctrine of preeption?


I don't understand how you can equate Israeli operations to root out terrorists with any sort of doctrine of preemption. It's not like they hadn't ever been attacked by terrorists before 2002. To call it "preemption" relies on the idea that they were acting in self-defense to avoid attacks that hadn't yet happened.

Israel’s Security Fence Is A Legitimate Right of Self Defense: John Kerry supports the construction of Israel’s security fence to stop terrorists from entering Israel



upi reported....

"I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government's decision to build a barrier off the 'Green Line,' cutting deeply into Palestinian areas," Kerry told members of the Arab-American Institute in October 2003, a month after he had announced his candidacy. "We do not need another barrier to peace." He went on to say that the barrier was a "provocative and counterproductive measure" that was not in Israel's interest.



Well, to be fair, I'll post his entire statement about that:

From Kerry's speech to the Arab-American Institute in October 2003

No peace process will be successful unless Israelis and Palestinians are committed to that process and willing to take steps that each side finds difficult.  Palestinian leaders must bring an end to the violence against Israelis and find a way, with the help of others, to rein in militant groups.    And Israel must be prepared to meet its obligations, as outlined in the Bush Administration’s road map, with respect to settlements.  The absence of movement on these two critical issues only serves to convince each side that the other is not really serious about peace. 

And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build the barrier off of the green line – cutting deep into Palestinian areas.  We don’t need another barrier to peace.  Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israeli’s security over the long term, increase the hardships to the Palestinian people, and make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.

There is nothing to be gained in an endless cycle of violence and reprisals that only point in a downward direction.  There is no future for that tiny sliver of land other than that of two nations living as peaceful neighbors – and the extremists on both sides need to realize that.  Israeli mothers and Palestinian mothers cry the same tears over their lost sons and daughters.  And Israeli and Palestinian children have no hopes for a lifetime of peace and prosperity that do not involve peace and prosperity for each other.


This doesn't sound quite so bad...but you're right, this does sound like the most salient example of him changing his story I've seen so far. I was just hoping Stock might do the research and find it because I'm tired of him refusing to back up his arguments with actual facts.

• As President, John Kerry will never force Israel to make concessions that compromise its security.
• As President, John Kerry would not expect Israel to negotiate without a credible Palestinian partner for peace - something that unfortunately does not exist today.



the new york sun aug 4, 04:

In a speech he made last December at the Council on Foreign Relations, Mr. Kerry said he would consider sending Mr. Carter or Mr. Baker as his personal envoy to make peace between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Both men are associated with using America's special relationship with Israel to pressure the nation into untenable concessions.



okay.


They're "associated with" it? What the fuck does that mean? Usually the phrase "associated with" is reserved for references to public perception. It sounds odd and suspiciously unsure in this context, like the author wanted to suggest that image without actually having to say they've ever done that.

As President, John Kerry will provide the political and military support.... will work to strengthen the economy of Israel...... will implement measures and programs to improve the social, economic, and political conditions



and he'll give healthcare to everyone, etc. ..... and reduce the deficit and balance the budget? i dunno about that.

there is also the fact of being pro israel while trying to make nice with pro palestinian old europe.


Well, you don't have to agree with someone's every position in order to have an amicable political relationship with them.

Thanks for the citations, though, that's the kind of argument I can at least respect, even if I don't totally agree with it.

crucifiedalien

crucifiedalien

I'm lost
February 2004

SEP 09, 2004 02:47 AM

stockula said:
Why bother? Kerry will revise it according to whoever he's talking to this week.



too much Fox News my friend.

John Kerry is a Senator. The Bush Team has done a good job taking advantage of the fact that Senators have to vote on things that are about fifty pages long and have all sorts of pork attatched to them. Any Senator can be made to look like a flip flopper.

it amazes me that some people can still be so overly critical of Kerry and give this idiot in the white house a free pass.

STURANIUM_235

STURANIUM_235

San Francisco, CA
April 2004

SEP 09, 2004 03:30 AM

what's gonna happen if they do take out arafat? if arafat is exiled, the chances of takeover by super hard lined islamic groups is becoming more likely. polls are showing the support of these groups has increased from 23% to 33% since the release of israeli anti-arafat propaganda pamphlets in palestine. if not, the chances of yasser arafat controlling palestine from exile is also very likely. the temporary replacement for arafat would be abu ala, the parliment speaker. this would only be temporary, however. the problem is, there is no sure answer for who will assume power upon the expulsion of arafat. It worries me what disorder of that nature could generate.