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dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

SEP 07, 2004 02:08 PM

Hey, it's not me saying it, but the Sunday Herald, a Scottish newspaper.

Putin cannot escape blame for Beslan


For Vladimir Putin, the end of the school siege at Beslan in North Ossetia could prove to be the defining moment in his presidency. It will now be very difficult for him to wriggle free of the accusation that he has the blood of innocent children on his hands. As the debriefings and investigations continue, the Russian president will argue that the violence was prompted by the Chechen terrorists who provided the trigger event by shooting at escaping children – leaving the Russian security forces with no option but to respond – but the casualties are still his responsibility. However, there was clearly no formulated plan and so much was wrong with the operation that questions are bound to be asked about the Russian government’s attitude to internal security in the face of a bitter separatist war which has been waged since 1994 and has cost more than 100,000 lives.

Putin came to power in 1999 promising to wield the mailed fist at the separatists. A wave of Chechen attacks against Russian civilian targets had prompted nationwide fear and dismay and there were widespread calls for something to be done. Sensing the mood, the incoming president, a judo black belt, responded with a brutal military offensive which caused huge numbers of casualties and only exacerbated the sense of grievance felt by the Chechens. A bitter counter-insurgency war followed and although Russia’s tactics were regularly criticised in the West, the complaints were muted in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks as Putin began claiming that Russia’s policy was simply part of the war against global terrorism.



etc etc.

They also have a poll, so you can vote if you like.

Michael_DeSade

Michael_DeSade

Seattle, WA
OLD SKOOL

SEP 07, 2004 02:36 PM

It's not you saying it, it's just you dispersing it. puke

ARRR!!!

dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

SEP 07, 2004 03:02 PM

Sadistic_Bastard said:
It's not you saying it, it's just you dispersing it. puke

ARRR!!!



The sunday herald is not a minor newspaper.
Sunday Herald awards


Leaving aside the urgent need to begin a political dialogue with the various Chechen groups which are taking part in the armed struggle, Russia desperately needs to overhaul its approach to dealing with terrorist attacks. As the bloody end to the school siege showed, the security forces have little clear concept of anti-terrorist tactics. That much became apparent in October 2002 when “Spetsnaz” and “Alpha” special forces stormed a besieged theatre in Moscow where hostages were being held by Chechen terrorists. In the resulting action, nerve gas was used to disable the hostage-takers but there was no antidote and 129 hostages plus 41 terrorists were killed. The operation revealed a lack of realistic planning and a complete absence of any contingency plans. Nobody doubts the courage and professionalism of the Russian special forces, but they operate by a different military ethos in which the result is everything and casualties are simply a by-product of a bloody business.



By the way, the vote results are:
Should Putin share responsibility for the tragedy in Beslan?
Response Votes
Yes 63%
No 37%

Michael_DeSade

Michael_DeSade

Seattle, WA
OLD SKOOL

SEP 07, 2004 03:15 PM

That has fuck-all to do with you repeating it on the CE boards as validation of your views. The last time I checked, the Sunday Herald wasn't linked to SG, so you are dispersing information to back up your contention that the Russians are bad people because some terrorists killed 300+ people, most of whom were children.

ARRR!!!

downingolsen

downingolsen

Chandler, AZ
September 2003

SEP 07, 2004 06:08 PM

wow maybe they should have a poll like this...

Are the Terrorist responsible for the loss of life?

Yes

and

Yes

No matter how well trained a Hostage Rescue Team is there are times when the the situation just goes all to hell. I think that even Delta Force, the FBI's HRT or even SAS or GSG9 would all have had a hard time in that situation without loss of life.

A school with approximately 1200 hostages is a tatical nightmare.

[Edited on Sep 07, 2004 by downingolsen]

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 07, 2004 06:17 PM

I don't think the article is saying Putin alone is responsible for the massacre of innocents. I think it's saying that he is responsible for the security situation, for the continuation of a bloody brutal war, even in the face of real chances for peace (such as a referendum which won a popular vote in Chechnya which would have abandoned the claim of true independence but established Chechnya as a "separatist state within Russia," which Putin rejected), and for continually lying to the public and making blatantly false statements to downplay situations like this one in the media.

The terrorists who committed this atrocity are heartless, evil, and callous, and I hope they rot in hell. But that doesn't mean that Putin should get off scott free, especially since this isn't the first time Russian troops have horribly bungled a rescue attempt. There is, understandably, some sense of mistrust within Russia that Putin has the interest of the people in that part of Russia in mind.

[Edited on Sep 07, 2004 by bean]

dem_z

dem_z

United Kingdom
June 2004

SEP 07, 2004 06:40 PM

bean said:
I don't think the article is saying



Wait, don't tell me that you read the article before forming an opinion?

Sheesh, what's CE coming to.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

SEP 07, 2004 06:54 PM

demetrius_z said:

bean said:
I don't think the article is saying



Wait, don't tell me that you read the article before forming an opinion?

Sheesh, what's CE coming to.



*gasp*

Yeah, you caught me. Me and my radical liberal ideas about reading things and trying to avoid oversimplifying complex issues.

wink