NEWS: US Charges Navy Seals In Iraq Prisoner Abuse Investigation

POLITICS: US Charges Navy Seals In Iraq Prisoner Abuse Investigation

The U.S. Navy has charged four members of a SEAL unit with prisoner abuse in Iraq, including a man who died last year after being beaten, announced Navy spokesmen Fri.

The four soldiers are facing U.S. military criminal charges consisting of assault, aggravated assault, maltreatment of detainees, failure to report maltreatment of detainees, making false official statements to investigators, and solicitation to commit an offense, according to the Naval Special Warfare Command. Names of the individuals involved have presently not been released as the investigation is still ongoing.

legionnaire,

Write this down: US Navy personnel are SAILORS, not soldiers. I realize the difference may seem small to you, and I should probably let this slide because saying "soldiers" means that this is the Army's fault.

For future referance:
US Army personnel are SOLDIERS.
US Navy personnel are SAILORS.
US Marine Corps personnel are MARINES.

Part of the problem with service pride is that you have to take service responsibility. I don't know if the SEALs are guilty or not, that's for a Court Martial to discover. But part of the price for decades of pride over the accomplishments of the SEALs is accepting them as your own when they screw up.

Patrick S Lasswell
USN 1987-1995, STG2(SW)

Edit: US Air Force personnel are AIRMEN (Couldn't quite bring myself to be polite on the first draft.)

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 12:16PM]

I second the correction. It drives former service members crazy to be called something your not. Im a jarhead (Marine) and to us it is the ultamate insult to be called by anything else.

As far as the article. Im so sure they did it on thier own and had no guidance or suggestion from higher levels.

When we start choppin thier heads off and sending children to kill them, then I'll care about mistreatment.

As for this I hope they get off scott free.

totally agree

-sailor

Ha this is an old arguement around here, but the usual suspects will be along any minute to mound tons of evidence about why service members should just be happy being called soldiers and to shut the fuck up. After all we are just a bunch of mouth breathing war mongering baby killing retards who had no choice but to join the military so we could get our two year collge degrees and become mechanics or some other lowly blue collar tradesmen.

Oh and here is a collective FUCK YOU to all those people who also happen to be the majority of the other psuedo intellectual members around here. Go hug a terrorist.

from the abc article

presuming this is true, and given the mistreatment we've seen already it's a safe bet to say it is, then i hope they throw the book at them. sailors or no sailors, this is absolutely disgusting.

That he was butt stroked? And then died? What the fuck are you talking about? There is no evidence given in that article of any wrong doing.

Snuck out on a stretcher????????? Where they supposed to fucking drag his body by the ankles through the prison!!!!!

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by levezletoi]

You realize, of course you don't, that the alternative to getting smacked by a rifle is to get shot by it.

you realise that there are ways to restrain people other than pistol-whipping?

you realise that disguising someone's death to save your own skin is sick?

no, wait, you don't.

You realise it doesn't say that the SEALs did anything with the body and that the body was taken away right? Of course not. In fact it was two CIA who brought him in, and I'm sure they weren't the ones who took his body away either.

Have you ever had to restrain someone who is hostile, possibly armed, and speaks another language all while wearing seventy plus pounds of gear while at least one of your hands is busy holding a rifle????

Asshead, MCRD stands for Marine Corp Recruit Depot. You ment UCMJ retard.

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by levezletoi]

It said the Iraqi was hit while being detained not after he was detained.

Hahahaha thats all you've got? You have to admit that was a pretty bone headed move on your part, to spout off about the UCMJ and then to turn around and use the wrong acronymn.

Trust me, I think treating POWs well is the only decent thing to do. Thats not where my arguement is, I just don't think that particular suspected insurgent was treated in a way that should considered abusive.

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by levezletoi]

Exactly, and thank you.

Thought I wasn't worth talking to? But I'm glad you are.

Face it. Dont deny what you are.

Well shucks, I was just trying to be nice.

Although No Load (that is how I will refer to you from now on, and if you really were a Marine you'll understand). Don't you find it odd that you admonish me for my percieved lack of maturity by asking "How mucha schoolin' yousa hadsa?" which is compounded in that I was originally making fun of you for demanding that the SEALs be punished to the "full extent of the Marine Corp Recruit Depot"?

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by levezletoi]

Let's make one thing clear. You have a weapon, you are the enemy, I will make you real dead real quick. I don't give a flying fuck about politics, I care about my shipmates. Let Allah send a few hundred thousand more at me, all that will concern me is "which one do I shoot first?"

Mj

Ok, the dead prisoner, Al-Jamadi, was hit with the butt of a Rifle. There seems to be the distinct possibility of creative writing in the ABC article. The rifle hit could have easily occured in Al-Jamadi's capture. In a struggle, the SEAL could have hit him in the head and taken him into custody. What troubles me is that the article only says it was to subdue him. Was this in the process of taking him into custody, or while he was already in custody. There is a big question mark there. The article gave very vague facts by which we cannot ascertain anything. It is colored in a way that we assume he was IN custody when he was hit, but does not actually say it. As far as taking his body out in a manner that made the other prisoners think he was merely sick, of course they would. If they just dragged out a dead prisoner who had been there over night, don't you think there would be riots? This was to maintain some kind of peace in the prison, not dupe the prisoners to cover anything up.

Who has the tinfoil hat now??? Pass it around, it is MY turn to wear it for a while dammit!!!

I suppose they should have subdued him with promises of S'mores and a group hug between refrains of Kum-Bay-Ya ?

Gimmie a fuckin break.

One less scumbag to worry about next time.

I love how the US is "abusing" Iraqis
who most likely were charging Iranian
gun positions before they hit puberty.
Whatever "abuse" US troops did to
these sorry bastards is humane compared to what Saddam did to his
people.
Personally I have no sympathy at
all for them..what are we supposed to do.
"Mr Terrorist..I know you plan on killing innocent women and children-
if you would so kind as to tell us,we'd
appreciate it. We'll reward you with a
nice foot massage..that lotion is from
Bath and Body Works"
We're fighting a war, people. Let's get real.

Apparently you didn't read this

If you attack the Red Cross, you loose your POW status, because you're no longer a lawful combatant. Hospitals, churches, mosques, the clergy, et al are all protected under the Geneva Conventions against attack. Therefore, Al-Jamadi wouldn't have been a POW, he would've been a war criminal. Now, he's a dead war criminal.

edited for poor, poor typing skills.

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 8:40PM]

First off. SEAL's are not normal "sailors". While the rest of the world and the rest of the armed forces might think that it is cruel to give someone a butt-stroke to the head, i dont just like the SEAL's didn't. (assuming they did do it) I'm infantry in the U.S. Army. that means im in a combat arms occupation. any of you that have not been combat arms have no idea the differences in training and treatment. giving someone a buttstroke to the head is something that is taught from day one. its a natural reaction. when fighting is going on, we dont have time to think. it just happens. you dont see a person in front of you that your shooting. you just see another target without a face or family. half the time you dont realize what happend until after you had time to sit down and take a breather. its like when you touch something hot, you pull away from it. when an enemy gets close to you, you start doing hand-to-hand if necessary, which includes using butt-strokes. now the abuse that the MP's did the Iraqi's is uncalled for. and they are just idiots anyways. but if you are judging U.S. forces on these few incidents, then you should first see things that happen more often to the U.S. soldiers. i guarantee i would rather get abused by the the US then by the Iraqi's. It's not a pleasant sight.

yea. hmmm...

[Edited on Sep 05, 2004 8:38AM]