NEWS: Jihadists Blackmail France

POLITICS: Jihadists Blackmail France

Two French journalists have been kidnapped by terrorists in Iraq. The captors say the two will be murdered if France does not rescind its ban on religious clothing in public schools.

The editorial writers at Le Monde see this as a reality check.

They got that right. This war is certainly ideological and no “infidel” country should consider itself exempt. Anyone who thinks the West can “change its policies” toward the Middle East to escape the jihad ought to take this into account.

It doesn’t seem to make any difference that France did not simply ban the Islamic headscarf, but also similar items (crosses and skull caps) worn by Christians and Jews. This law is equal-opportunity ham-handedness. But it is noteworthy that there are no Jewish or Christian terrorist organizations threatening to saw off heads in other countries over this.

In any case, the regulation of clothing in France is obviously not the business of murderous nutjobs in Iraq. Andrew Sullivan is right when he says the kidnappers are “theocratic fascists using the old methods of terror and violence to get their way."

Swear to god.. if the french ask for our help....


but seriously. Fine... GO GO Gadget Marine and Delta Force!

Disclaimer: I love french people! Crustacionhonhonhon

[Edited on Sep 01, 2004 10:16PM]

They're complaining we're not doing enough, while entreating themselves to Arab capitals, saying "Look, we're on your side. We oppose America, Israel, the liberation of Iraq. Doesn't that count for something? We aren't the enemy here."

Nope. Doesn't work that way, Jacques. Maybe this will pierce their appeasement delusions and realize they're making both friends and enemies of the wrong people.

They want the US as an enemy, mainly because they know they won't face any real consequences in doing so, being the gutless snivelling cowards they are. They don't realize as Westerners we're in this thing together. But the French are so goddamn insufferable I doubt they'll ever come to that realization.



[Edited on Sep 01, 2004 10:25PM]

Not allowed to wear religious clothing, you say?

I've got three friends named Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld that think it's TIME FOR A REGIME CHANGE.

So I guess France opposing the war in Iraq had no effect. So the Jihadist thugs found another excuse.

On the bright side of this, at least these head chopping loons can't see the forest from the trees and don't realize that each time they pull this crap on another nation, they are actually uniting Western nations more and more.

I guess there might actually be a larger more unified coalition one day. Thanks head choppers!

yet again, on with the bashing of the french. they were not the only country that did not suport the war in iraq. last time I checked, Canada wasn't into iraq either, and we're westerners too.

it's a interesting situation that the 'group' doesn't realize it's nothing personal against muslims. the French Government, from what I understand, wants to remove any religious problems, ie, seperating state and reglion affairs. something more countries should think about. it get's mixed into politics way to often.

it will be intersting to see how this get's played out, where it leads up.

have to aggree with royaljack on a few points, it will most likely end up uniting more countries together.

the problem is, where will the 'coalition' end up fighting next?

Well, France's efforts would all be fine and dandy except for one thing... If you're Christian there is no law banning you from wearing the crucifix. No religious symbols for the non-Christians. That's basically what the law is.

And you know what? France's attitudes towards religious gear is not fine and dandy. It's quite fascist a move and quite sickening in a "free" society. For an example of how "great" a sociery devoid of religious expression can be, look at the U.S.S.R. when it existed. Not a fun place.

As someone who lives in a city--and a neighborhood--filled with different expressions of religion in New York City, seeing someone observe their faith with what they wear is not tension inducing. It's actually comforting to see people are free to be who they are without restriction.

In fact, NYC is a great example of how outward expressions of religious faith through dress is not a problem at all in any way. Sure there are racial/religious tensions. But it's almost never based on something so outwardly superficial.

How about the coalition unites against the actual thugs who commit this act? The U.S. had it right when it went into Afgahnistan to find and kill Bin Laden. Then this stupid Iraq crap came out of nowhere.

A coalition of nations that truly would go after these thugs would be a welcome thing.

[Edited on Sep 01, 2004 10:56PM]

I'm getting out of the religious points, sorry if I offended.

One thing, living in the USSR during it's hey day wasn't all bad. I've talked to someone who did live there during that time, there were bad and good points to it, but not all bad.

Same can be said for living in Canada, good and bad points all around.

The problem with this 'thugs' is that they don't have a home country. They'll roam, pick up people from other places, train whereever they can.

They can find any of 'our' people quite easily, for us, it's not so simple.

The war on 'terroism' as it has been called, isn't going to be something quick and easy. As everyone has found out the hard way, with what is happenning in russia right now, and all of the countries who have they their people taken hostage, and in some cases, murdered.

There are better ways to combat this, without going into other countries, and harming more lives.

A group hug?

No seriously...

A very big group hug?

No seriously...

The war in Iraq was a big fuck up. The war on terror? The name is stupid, but the spirit is correct. The U.S. actions in Afghanistan made a difference and were supported by all. The sad fact is the stupid war in Iraq shifted the focus away from the goal of hunting down Bin Laden and getting rid of Al Qaeda once and for all.

Regarding the U.S.S.R., if life there was so great there would be more people looking back towards "the good old days". As someone who has friends from Eastern Europe and has family that actually lived in Communist Poland, I can honestly tell you few people ever regretted the fall of the U.S.S.R. Sure there were growing pains initially, but nowadays, it's only the real crackpots who look back fondly on "Mother Russia".

Then again, I'm posting to someone who is comparing the U.S.S.R. to Canada. Yeah, right. If the U.S.S.R. were Canada you would not have so many people trying to leave it and risk their lives to escape. Canada is like America Lite; and I mean that in a good way.

There's a difference between abstaining or washing your hands of an affair, and actively taking a stance of opposing and subverting the United States over extremely critical and important matters. Canada did the former (as did a lot of countries. Fine) France did the latter, and then after the dust settled turned to the US saying how they hoped we could put the acrimonious past behind us and be friends again. Not bloody likely.

But the thing about the French and others that cheeses me off is that they think that militiant Islam and terrorism is directed against the US for its sins in foreign policy, that it doesn't care enough or give enough to the world and address the "root causes of terrorism". That it supports Israel in favor of the Palestinians.

I've said for years this is complete horseshit, by the virtue that many many countries are targets of Islamic terrorism, al-Qaeda's extraordinary in that they're over-achievers and went after the big dog. France is just figuring this out now.

You can't be neutral in this war. Like that simplisme cowboy moron George Bush said, "You're either with us or against us." This is what he meant by that, and the Islamists feel the same way. Look, they're willing to KILL over whether women can wear hankerchiefs on their heads in French schools. If you aren't amenable to Islam, if you do not SUBMIT (which is what Islam literally means), then you are a target.

Maybe the French will understand this. More likely, knowing what I know from years of observing them, they'll blame the United States and Israel, while pleading with the people killing their citizens for an understanding.

Alors, the terrorists realize they have more to gain with France as a friend than as an enemy. This is the more rational route. Decapitating the Frenchmen could knock France out of its useful idiot state. Releasing the hostages would show the world that cooperating with the terrorists and opposing the US immunizes you from Islamic violence.

To our brothers in the Islamic Army of Iraq. We wish to inform you that we totally understand the extreme rage that is boiling in your hearts regarding the French decision to ban the Hijab in their schools, and we share you your dissapointment. We officially condemned the French decision at the time... However, killing the two hostages without considering the grave consequences of such an act would be harmful to our cause and would isolate us from our international support... Our goal is to besiege the Americans politically in every spot of the world and this act is not serving that goal... You can see how the agents of the occupation are already using this incident against us... It is our duty as scholars to point out to our brothers what is wrong and what is right... France as an anti-occupation country has been helpful to our cause... You might say that the French stance is not an altruistic one and that they have their own political interests that caused them to disagree with the Americans, and I am not going to say that is not true but it is also our goal to turn them against each other to serve our cause so France has a strategic importance for us.

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_01_healingiraq_archive.html#109402879976384629

[Edited on Sep 02, 2004 by stockula]

The thing is at this point, what can this Jihadists do? I mean are they sitting around washing their black hoods going "Man, I think we really blew it this time..."

The can't simply let the hostages go since that would be a sign of weakness. The could kill them, but then again that would invite unity.

But are they smart enough to understand that?

I bet anything that these idiots will not listen to reason. But they might not kill them as quickly as others. Just keep them hostage and perhaps split them up.

This is going to be interesting, because if these two French journalists are killed, all bets are off and what happens next will be big.

[Edited on Sep 02, 2004 12:46AM]

okay, mr fact checker. Who are you quoting? The burden of proof is on you to support this.

Oh, and France did join the war on terror. They have soldiers stationed in Afghanistan and unlike most of our 'coalition partners' they are actually combat soldiers.

68, did you read the opening post of this thread. Stock's quote was from that post. Don't be so up in arms ready to attack every little thing stock says. If he said the sky was blue, would you insist it is serulean?


edit: damn me, misread. Still, after going back over the thread, don't you think maybe it was a hypothetical thought. You know "this is what their actions say" not an actual quote?

[Edited on Sep 02, 2004 by starkmadd]

OK, I'll go through this slowly, one more time, for the people who don't seem to be getting it: Opposing the war in Iraq is not a sign that you do not oppose terror. If anything, a lot of us who opposed that foolish war in Iraq did so because we knew what is being proven correct time and time again: it did not do anything to stop any terror, and has thrown a monkey wrench into larger efforts to stop terror.

this would technically be extortion, not blackmail...

I agree that something needs to be done about radical terrorists, particularly the Islamic variety as they seem to be the most active and visible right now. But how? That's what I'm unsure about. Afghanistan seemed to be a step in the right direction, but in order to really stop the main backers of terrorism (governments in places like Saudi Arabia, and wealthy individuals all over who support them) would require an enormous paradigm change in the foreign policies of a lot of governments. Are we willing to make that much of a commitment? Not yet, apparently.

When I put on my tinfoil hat, I wonder if a motive for the Iraq war was to claim that they're "tough" on terror without having to go up against the Saudis.

Slightly off-topic:

Perhaps, but I think the motive for Iraq was much more basic.

The Saudis are friends of the Bush family. And not just in the "I'll feed your cat while you are on vacation way." The Saudis have a huge investment in the U.S. and the Bush family.

Now, Iraq was a big headache for the Saudis. And the Saudis have been prodding the U.S. to "take them out" for years. I believe that when push comes to shove, the war in Iraq was done to basically keep the Saudis happy and not have them risk their lives on the ground there.

I don't think the main motivation was directly the need for Iraqi, but influence and simply nepotistic politics.

It's one thing not to attack the Saudis. Even Clinton did not do such a thing. But it's another thing to do their "dirty work" for them.

As each day passes I'm more convinced the main reason we went to Iraq was because the Saudis asked us to and that's it. If it were only oil, I think things would be different.

Also, I think people who compare the "War on Terror" to the "War on Drugs" are off.

I tihnk the "War on Terror" is more akin to the war on organized crime and the mafia.

There will always be some level of organized crime out there, and it's tough to fight, but you can fight it and can weaken it and even eliminate it in some circles. I feel whatever obstacles there might be in a war on terror are similar to a war on the mafia and organized crime. Tough. Stubborn. Hard to pin down. But winnable in many more respects than not.

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/recherche_articleweb/1,13-0,36-377252,0.html




[Edited on Sep 02, 2004 by stockula]

is that right? i thought it actually DID ban those things?

quaint.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,903267,00.html

I could say alot of things to anger alot of people, but what is at hand and where it is coming from (Islam), and their beliefs are always going to be a thorn in the worlds side. I have over time believed that religion is a destructive practice and the cause for true evil. Maybe the world would be a better place without that part of the world. This is coming from a former Marine and Combat Veteran of the first Gulf War. Yes I believe that genicide is in order! Hate me if you will but think that a radical muslim will not think twice about taking your life so he can spend enternity with all those virgins.

You are fucking joking? Right?