Calico said:
Just want to point out that while, yes, no model should ever go without an escort, there's also the fact that no photogrpaher should ever rape or kill a model. Let's place the blame where it belongs.
I didn't see anyone blaming the models.
I think she's pointing out how everyone immediately jumps to "It's SO important to have an escort!" when an escort wouldn't be necessary if there weren't so many assholes choosing to use photography as a vehicle for their predatory behavior.
Sort of like the buddy system in clubs and bars: yes, it's a good idea, but it wouldn't NEED to be given as advice if there weren't so many people prowling for victims in those settings, and puts a lot of responsibility for prevention of harm on the womens' shoulders. This is the sort of attitude which can also be used in court later. "Why didn't you bring an escort?"/"Why didn't you do the buddy system?" are the sorts of questions people will later ask a rape victim which, no matter what the intention, has the undertone of blame.
So, the tendency for all of us (and I totally am guilty of this as well) to immediately jump to giving potential victims advice rather than discussing ways we could maybe call out or police rapists is indicative of the idea that we, as a society, regardless of our intentions and beliefs, still are operating within a culture of rape being something for the victim to prevent, rather than for the rapists to not do.
Calico said:
Just want to point out that while, yes, no model should ever go without an escort, there's also the fact that no photogrpaher should ever rape or kill a model. Let's place the blame where it belongs.
I didn't see anyone blaming the models.
I think she's pointing out how everyone immediately jumps to "It's SO important to have an escort!" when an escort wouldn't be necessary if there weren't so many assholes choosing to use photography as a vehicle for their predatory behavior.
Sort of like the buddy system in clubs and bars: yes, it's a good idea, but it wouldn't NEED to be given as advice if there weren't so many people prowling for victims in those settings, and puts a lot of responsibility for prevention of harm on the womens' shoulders. This is the sort of attitude which can also be used in court later. "Why didn't you bring an escort?"/"Why didn't you do the buddy system?" are the sorts of questions people will later ask a rape victim which, no matter what the intention, has the undertone of blame.
So, the tendency for all of us (and I totally am guilty of this as well) to immediately jump to giving potential victims advice rather than discussing ways we could maybe call out or police rapists is indicative of the idea that we, as a society, regardless of our intentions and beliefs, still are operating within a culture of rape being something for the victim to prevent, rather than for the rapists to not do.
Exactly. Anytime we start a sentence with "you should (not)" toward a victim, we're doing it wrong.
Whether it is telling someone they need to carry a gun, wear different clothes, stay off the street at night, stay with a group, bring a friend, or wear a burkha, we're doing it wrong. If a person chooses to do those things, for whatever their reason, that's up to them. But telling someone how they need to adjust their life because of what someone else might do is looking in the wrong direction.
A risky lifestyle is called risky because it is and one can always reduce the risk for something happening to yourself or your loved ones by reducing those risks by taking into account information and precautions available.
There is a reason prostitutes are among serial killers favorite victims, transient people engaging in high risk behavior is easy pray for sick fucks.
Other examples of risk reduction I do; I vaccinate my kid, I live in an urban area were we have lots of immigration and tourists, this stream of global people increases the risk of my child contracting disease.
I don't drink and drive.
I do not use drugs.
If I go home from the bar alone at night, I call someone to talk to while I walk or I get someone to pick me up.
I don't answer pm's on this site where guys inquire about where I live because they want to come over and give me sexytime.
When I go in a cab I always text the cab nr and the cabdrivers id to my sister and/or husband.
I only shoot with people I feel comfortable with, I don't always bring an escort but I do my checking beforehand.
Yes it sucks I have to be vigilant and think one step ahead, I should be able to walk around topless and dancing the mambo without being assaulted but that's not society today.
I don't think people who don't take precautions are to blame (well..in the drinking/drugs/vaccine part they are, I'm referring to the woman safety part from now on) for what happens but everyone should take some personal responsibility for their own safety and if there is a way to reduce risks I want my friends, kids and loved ones to take them, ignoring them wont make the world a better place.
There is nothing wrong with asking people to think and be safe.
(........And shitbags who blames a person for drinking/passing out/wearing revealing clothing or having many sex partners as a reason for being victimized deserve to have a salted pineapple inserted rectally)
I do agree that asking potential victims to take precautions or putting the responsibility on them is not the way to end or reduce this type of crime but it's what we have while we as a society and we as individuals work in other ways to battle this.
This is what happens in my country to battle this:
In Sweden we recently had a campaign were woman (and men) who had been sexually assaulted stepped up and talked about it on social media (twitter, youtube, facebook etc) . Shared their story and refused to feel shame, the one who should feel shame is the abuser and those who protect him/her. They gave the victim a voice and a face, they put the shame back on the faceless douches and evil people who does this.
I know more can be done and should be done but just as an example.
Towards the end of placing blame and responsibility where it belongs, here are some practical tips to reduce rape that don't rely on victim-blaming or placing the onus on women to be psychic Rambos:
Morrigan said:
A risky lifestyle is called risky because it is and one can always reduce the risk for something happening to yourself or your loved ones by reducing those risks by taking into account information and precautions available.
There is a reason prostitutes are among serial killers favorite victims, transient people engaging in high risk behavior is easy pray for sick fucks.
Other examples of risk reduction I do; I vaccinate my kid, I live in an urban area were we have lots of immigration and tourists, this stream of global people increases the risk of my child contracting disease.
I don't drink and drive.
I do not use drugs.
If I go home from the bar alone at night, I call someone to talk to while I walk or I get someone to pick me up.
I don't answer pm's on this site where guys inquire about where I live because they want to come over and give me sexytime.
When I go in a cab I always text the cab nr and the cabdrivers id to my sister and/or husband.
I only shoot with people I feel comfortable with, I don't always bring an escort but I do my checking beforehand.
Yes it sucks I have to be vigilant and think one step ahead, I should be able to walk around topless and dancing the mambo without being assaulted but that's not society today.
I don't think people who don't take precautions are to blame (well..in the drinking/drugs/vaccine part they are, I'm referring to the woman safety part from now on) for what happens but everyone should take some personal responsibility for their own safety and if there is a way to reduce risks I want my friends, kids and loved ones to take them, ignoring them wont make the world a better place.
There is nothing wrong with asking people to think and be safe.
(........And shitbags who blames a person for drinking/passing out/wearing revealing clothing or having many sex partners as a reason for being victimized deserve to have a salted pineapple inserted rectally)
Those are all things you are choosing for yourself (other than the ones that are laws), which is different from telling other people what they need to do, with the added implication that not doing those things makes them complicit in being a victim. We can call them common sense, and hope that people will do similar if they feel the need; people can offer advice when asked, yes. It just bugs me when people start telling others what to do.
Really? We're going to go with the " we wouldn't have to warn people if there weren't any bad people lurking out there" line of thinking.
Advising people to be safe is a hell of a lot more effective than wishing there weren't bad people out there....especially when there are still ridiculous amounts of cases involving people using the Internet to lure unsuspecting people.
Cash said:
Really? We're going to go with the " we wouldn't have to warn people if there weren't any bad people lurking out there" line of thinking.
Advising people to be safe is a hell of a lot more effective than wishing there weren't bad people out there....especially when there are still ridiculous amounts of cases involving people using the Internet to lure unsuspecting people.
Cash said:
Really? We're going to go with the " we wouldn't have to warn people if there weren't any bad people lurking out there" line of thinking.
Advising people to be safe is a hell of a lot more effective than wishing there weren't bad people out there....especially when there are still ridiculous amounts of cases involving people using the Internet to lure unsuspecting people.
BDeyeD said:
Towards the end of placing blame and responsibility where it belongs, here are some practical tips to reduce rape that don't rely on victim-blaming or placing the onus on women to be psychic Rambos:
Cash and Morrigan: it seems like maybe both of you are interpreting my posts as somehow dissing you guys for your "prevention" comments. I'm not, and I don't think Calico is trying to either. I think she is trying to point out how this discussion, like many do, got turned into "how to protect yourself from rape" rather than a discussion about how to catch and hold these rapists accountable. BDeyeD's link is a great example of some things we can also be talking about in this thread that doesn't just put the onus on potential victims, but all of us as individuals who can take certain measures to prevent these crimes.
Cash said:
Really? We're going to go with the " we wouldn't have to warn people if there weren't any bad people lurking out there" line of thinking.
Advising people to be safe is a hell of a lot more effective than wishing there weren't bad people out there....especially when there are still ridiculous amounts of cases involving people using the Internet to lure unsuspecting people.
Otoki
SUICIDEGIRL
Minnesota, USA
MAR 16, 2013 06:50 AM