"Fiscal Cliff" Was the Name of My Band in High School

Obama Wins But Fiscal Cliff Looms

And away we go!

Will they let it happen? Will they cancel it all? Or will they find a moderate solution?

Fiscal cliff, recession threat takes center stage on Wall Street

I think it's entirely possible that the House will dig their heels in on any sort of compromise. Politically, the GOP benefits most if the next four years are marked by severe recession.

I'm seeing some signs among rightwing media of concession. Erik Erikson of Redstate emphatically declared that Obama is not a socialist and the party needs to really reassess itself.

Also, Karl Rove is apparently going to commit ritual seppuke in the Fox News Studio tonight. So there's that.*

*That which I may have just made up.

It's sad to think that Americans would want Americans to suffer just so they can "save" us later.

Obama is supposed to contact Romney in a few weeks.

I understood that during his first term; but when its a completely different candidate, the whole battlefield changes...and they can't plan for that now.

Hah, well, it sounds like he technically he left big business on the taxable table. Pretty sure he just assumed everyone knew that was off-limits, though.

Who wants to play a high-stakes game of "Spin the Disaster"?

See, I really don't think it's about manufacturing a crisis that they can swoop in and "fix", at least not anymore. I think they just have an axe that by god they are going to grind, no matter who gets hurt in the process. Nobody they know is in any danger of real crisis, after all.

I disagree.

They know that the Democratic party won't nominate another black candidate so they won't have to worry about fucking over Obama's actions in the next four years. They're going to spend they're energy elsewhere.

I feel that we might see more moderate leanings from the Right in weeks to come regarding the Cliff. It's irresponsible to throw the country into a recession just because you can.

It's not about evil rich people rubbing their hands together and counting their money as they use the middle class for kindling in their diamond fire.

They use starving homeless kids as kindling. Duh.

There will be a deal, maybe small or temporary but deal none the less. The red states can't afford defense cuts called for in the fiscal cliff. Without defense jobs most reds states would head to double digit unemployment by March. That combined with the fact everyone's taxes automatically go up, so everyone in the red states have less money and fewer jobs. All to protect the the tax rates of the 1%? Good luck with that spin. The Republicans only made this crazy deal because they KNEW Mitt would win. Now they are stuck with some very nasty economic poison that will hit all those nice red states like Sandy hit Long Island.

Which Republican party is this that's responsible and conscientious? Certainly not the 2012 one.

It looks like the Republicans expect the Democrats to cave in to their demands again, and if we keep talking about sequestration as though it means certain death they will probably get their wish. We should let the automatic budget cuts and tax increases take effect, and then offer Boehner a deal that will let him cut taxes on the poor and some of the middle class.

In the meantime, offer him a deal. It doesn't have to be a deal he will accept, either.

Regarding Boehner's willingness to compromise:

Just remember that in the debt ceiling crisis that eventually led to the "fiscal cliff" deal, Boehner took a relatively moderate position and showed the same willingness to compromise. It was John Kyl in the Senate and Eric Cantor in the House (and the teabaggers behind them) that actually dug in their heels.

And both of them (and most of their teabaggers) remain in office.

Unless Boehner and the relatively moderate Republicans can get the fiscal extremists - including Ryan - on board with compromise, it's unlikely to be resolved in any kind of timely way.

Because the relatively moderate Republicans don't dare to agree on a compromise without the extremists? That sounds like a big part of the problem with our government to me.

Does anyone see a chance that they will view the election as a defeat for extremism?

ETA: Paul Krugman also opposes making an unfavorable deal.

Robert Reich suggests an opening offer

I absolutely agree that the companies that rely on service employees need pay livable wages, some of the details of Reich's article needs some updating, however. McDonald's just posted it's first losses in almost a decade (over 2% globally). This makes the executive's pay and perks all the more dubious given the trend and their sweetheart exemption deal from PPACA until 2014.

McDonald's is far from alone in this distinction, and it should be noted that these recent losses are largely due to increased competition to sell even cheaper foods, and this race to the bottom could only have been possible with labor market saturated with low-wage earners (who increasingly have only been able to afford the cheaper menu items). Of course, this pattern transcends the fast food industry as many other corporations have richly profited during the recession while middle-class jobs and wages have suffered.

Indeed, addressing the wage issue should be a necessary part of the discussion if the US intends to maintain long-term growth. As far as I'm concerned, the only trickle-down I've seen is related to the direction wages have gone while the profits have gone entirely to the top...

You know, the more I think about this, the more I see this as an opportunity, if lawmakers are willing to work quickly in the first weeks of the new year, to reset a broken system. All the pols are doing right now is talking about different ways to patch things, which will, I'm afraid, just break again in a year or two.

Bush's policies fucked things up. His tax breaks are unsustainable. Why not let them expire and create tax reform that makes some fucking sense? The same with some of our social safety nets: there are problems, so why not use this opportunity to hit the reset button and reform the programs to make sense?

Yes, there would be some short-term pain. Yes, the first order would have to be to shore up the social programs for veterans, elderly, and the poor. And, yes, there might even be some across-the-board higher taxes. Fine. We done fucked up, and it's time to be adults and pay the price for our actions. Particularly if paying that price makes things better in the long run.

I'm not going to claim to be an expert in any of this. This is just where my thoughts are headed.

I think it's reasonable to assume that there will not be very much consensus between the two parties for some time to come. The important thing to note, however, is which direction things will break. The Republicans may be passing up the best opportunity to help craft some real, meaningful legislation, but it just isn't in the nature of their ideology to compromise as Democrats have been want to do. Democrats by their nature consist of an inclusive and diverse body of interests, which Republicans have historically been able to take advantage of, however Republicans are also much more dog-eat-dog and apt to punish their own for being compromising.

The difference is that momentum and popular support is on the side of the Democratic party and will likely continue to shift in that direction over the longterm. Depending on how the next body of Congress works together could determine the future of the Republican party. If they are unable to adapt and pivot along with changing attitudes of Americans, they could lose big time in the next and future elections. Their economic policies have consistently been failures, particularly for the underclass, and they aren't fooling enough people anymore to make a difference. interestingly, they're calling for compromise from the President and Democrats, as if a balanced approach means negotiating from a very nonspecific middle-out were the only viable option, while most Americans agree with the hard-nosed, top-down approach Obama has finally adopted.

No one wants the economy to fail, but if the austerity-laden measures of the fiscal cliff come to fruition, we're likely to experience a very uncomfortable meltdown that is gripping much of Europe. In the very least, the worst lain economic plans engineered by the GOP will finally be exposed for the con game its always ever been. Unfortunately, we're probably much more equipped to weather further deficit spending then the sudden and dramatic system shock we'll be facing, particularly at a time when the economy has been slowly recovering,

More from Fiscal Cliff:

If, for some unimaginable reason, you were still taking the Republican Party seriously, you should fucking quit.