A Harlem cop plotted to kidnap, torture, cook and eat dozens of women — even going so far as to discuss the best way to slow-cook an adult in a series of disturbing on-line chats, the FBI charged Thursday.
The feds busted alleged cannibal cop Gilberto Valle, 28, after intercepting multiple internet discussions in which the 26th Precinct cop offered gory details about a nightmarish plan straight out of a horror flick.
The officer used the National Crime Information database to make profiles of at least some of the over 100 women he planned to kidnap, cook, and eat. He also hoped to become a professional kidnapper.
Good thing he was caught before he had a chance to actually do it. Cell phone records showed he was already stalking one of the women. His wife found the information on his computer and turned him in.
I've seen some suggestion (including by the defense attorney) that it's just fantasy, we don't have conclusive proof he was going to do it.
Maybe so. But he apparently made some pretty clear steps towards stalking these women, including illegally using criminal databases to obtain their info. So we know that he's willing to break the law in pursuit of this fantasy. I think this falls within the reasonable range of "intent."
I'd like to learn more about what kind of proof is needed to convict on that claim, though.
Accuser said:
I've seen some suggestion (including by the defense attorney) that it's just fantasy, we don't have conclusive proof he was going to do it.
Maybe so. But he apparently made some pretty clear steps towards stalking these women, including illegally using criminal databases to obtain their info. So we know that he's willing to break the law in pursuit of this fantasy. I think this falls within the reasonable range of "intent."
I'd like to learn more about what kind of proof is needed to convict on that claim, though.
Accuser said:
I've seen some suggestion (including by the defense attorney) that it's just fantasy, we don't have conclusive proof he was going to do it.
Maybe so. But he apparently made some pretty clear steps towards stalking these women, including illegally using criminal databases to obtain their info. So we know that he's willing to break the law in pursuit of this fantasy. I think this falls within the reasonable range of "intent."
I'd like to learn more about what kind of proof is needed to convict on that claim, though.
Agreed on all points.
While this may be a possibility, I believe that at the very least he has just belatedly failed the psych evaluation for being a police officer.
semiretiredpunk said:
While this may be a possibility, I believe that at the very least he has just belatedly failed the psych evaluation for being a police officer.
I'm wondering how he passed the psyche eval in the first place. I was in the NYPD Academy and they give you a battery of tests before you can even start regular academy training.
semiretiredpunk said:
While this may be a possibility, I believe that at the very least he has just belatedly failed the psych evaluation for being a police officer.
I'm wondering how he passed the psyche eval in the first place. I was in the NYPD Academy and they give you a battery of tests before you can even start regular academy training.
It's easy to lie on those things. I had to take one to be on a TV show (the same one they use for military and police), and it's so, so easy just to fill in the "right" answers.
semiretiredpunk said:
While this may be a possibility, I believe that at the very least he has just belatedly failed the psych evaluation for being a police officer.
I'm wondering how he passed the psyche eval in the first place. I was in the NYPD Academy and they give you a battery of tests before you can even start regular academy training.
It's easy to lie on those things. I had to take one to be on a TV show (the same one they use for military and police), and it's so, so easy just to fill in the "right" answers.
Cash would know a bucketload more about this than I would, but I presume it's different, as in, they're not just interested in the face-value answers, but in reading between the lines. It's an evaluation rather than just a series of questionnaires.
TheFuckOffKid said:
Cash would know a bucketload more about this than I would, but I presume it's different, as in, they're not just interested in the face-value answers, but in reading between the lines. It's an evaluation rather than just a series of questionnaires.
According to the story, this guy was a 6-year veteran. I was in the academy 10 years ago...so I'm going off the assumption that they didn't significantly change the process in the 4 year gap.
The only time I've spoken to a mental health professional (hold your jokes, smartasses,) was in dealing with the police academy. It was a pretty in-depth interview...and you don't always know the reason for the questions they ask. It's not as simple as "Do you think you might be crazy?" For example, after my interview...the Doctor said "Ehh...I think you might have a tendency to drink too much, I'd keep an eye on that." She was correct.
The intake process was also the first time I'd learned that I had any kind of a hearing deficit. It's not significant...but there's definitely a deficit.
What does all this mean? Nothing really....hopefully it just goes towards my point that the intake process for the NYPD isn't just a formality. They are pretty thorough...and for this guy to make it through...is alarming.
Accuser said:
I've seen some suggestion (including by the defense attorney) that it's just fantasy, we don't have conclusive proof he was going to do it.
Maybe so. But he apparently made some pretty clear steps towards stalking these women, including illegally using criminal databases to obtain their info. So we know that he's willing to break the law in pursuit of this fantasy. I think this falls within the reasonable range of "intent."
I'd like to learn more about what kind of proof is needed to convict on that claim, though.
Agreed on all points.
Well, he could still be convicted of the inchoate offense of attempt. The elements of Attempt in New York State are:
n New York law, the element of actus reus is that the person engages in conduct that "...tends to effect the commission of such crime."[6] The test this requires either:
An action that reveals a criminal intent, that is, res ipsa loquitur, or "the thing speaks for itself," or
The person has dangerous proximity, or is "dangerously near and close to the accomplishment of the crime."[7]
"Actus reus" is the guilty act, which when combined with "mens rea", or the subjective intent, combine to form criminal liability. Here, the prosecution must prove that he had both the intent (i.e., he wasn't just fantasizing), and that he did something to reveal that intent (in this case, using those criminal databases would probably qualify). These two prongs are obviously inter-related, in the sense that the prosecution can say "well, clearly he wasn't just fantasizing, he did x and y to further his plan" in order to prove both the mens rea and the actus reus elements.
Conversely, the defense's strategy will likely focus solely on the intent element. That's why he's suggesting that it's just a fantasy. Because he's not going to win by suggesting that there was no actus reus.
semiretiredpunk
USA
March 2007
OCT 25, 2012 11:41 PM