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SUICIDEGIRL

Georgia, USA

MAR 22, 2004 12:43 AM

The Atlantic Monthly has a new story about the US Armageddon plan.

During the Reagan era, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were key players in a clandestine program designed to set aside the legal lines of succession and immediately install a new president in the event that a nuclear attack killed the country's leaders.

The idea was to concentrate on speed, to preserve "continuity of government," and to avoid cumbersome procedures. The speaker of the House, the president pro tempore of the Senate, and the rest of Congress would play greatly diminished roles.

The outline of the plan was simple. Once the United States was (or believed itself about to be) under nuclear attack, three teams would be sent from Washington to three different locations around the country. Each team would prepare to assume leadership, and would include a cabinet member who was prepared to become president. If the Soviet Union were to locate one of the teams and hit it with a nuclear weapon, the second team or, if necessary, the third could take over.

"One of the awkward questions we faced," one participant in program explains, "was whether to reconstitute Congress after a nuclear attack. It was decided that no, it would be easier to operate without them." For one thing, they felt that reconvening Congress, and replacing members who had been killed, would take too long. Moreover, if Congress did reconvene, it might elect a new speaker of the House, whose claim to the presidency might have greater legitimacy than that of a Secretary of Agriculture or Commerce who had been set up as President under the Reagan Administration's secret program.

Read the rest of the story over at the Atlantic.

loudog1

loudog1

Newport Beach, CA
December 2003

MAR 22, 2004 01:11 AM

Aren't we all relieved that the post nuclear war order of succession was recently changed so that after Skynet launches the attact; John Connor takes command?


Seriously, I find the Regan era plan to be much more disturbing.

bedukay

bedukay

Endicott, NY
March 2003

MAR 22, 2004 01:30 AM

And some people had the nerve to scoff at my paranoia here

But I'm the kind of guy who worries about EMP weapons, weaponized genetically enhanced smallpox, and the mercury that's in the hep b vaccines. I already get enough from my fillings thank you. And the flouride! My vital fluids! Ack!

[Edited on Mar 22, 2004 by bedukay]

Snottlebocket

Snottlebocket

Netherlands
March 2004

MAR 22, 2004 01:32 AM

really shows how a president is such powerfull, unique, wise and amazing leader of the nation when you can have 3 more waiting in reserve.
disposeable presidents. ARRR!!!

Vestril

Vestril

Coronado, CA
February 2003

MAR 22, 2004 01:49 AM

They were already disposable, they only have a maximum of 8 years to serve the country int hat office.

Honestly, I'm not entirely certain what the fuss is about... nuclear weapons changed the playing field a bit, and at the time the probability of a large percentage of the nations leaders being eliminated in a suprise assauly was significantly higher than it was when our constitution was written.

If we were under attack by the damn dirty reds, we would need to be able to get the country in shape in reasonably short order, which would require a plan and more heavily centralized power. It was a risk, but then a lot of things the United States did during the Cold War were fairly risky. It's a scary world we live in, and you wouldn't be a whole lot safer anywhere else. Even the paradise known as Canada has problems.

Merriweather

Merriweather

I'm lost
May 2003

MAR 22, 2004 04:02 AM

If we were under attack by the damn dirty reds, we would need to be able to get the country in shape in reasonably short order, which would require a plan and more heavily centralized power.



I don't see the need, really. Once the first bomb hits, it's all over.

[Edited on Mar 22, 2004 4:04AM]

VM

VM

Los Angeles, CA
October 2003

MAR 22, 2004 06:27 AM

I don't see the problem. If we took nukes and somehow DIDN'T get wiped off the face of the planet, we'd need a president right then and there. I think putting congress back togethor is a good idea, eventually, but quite honestly if we've had NUCLEAR MISSILES rain into our major cities and wipe out most of the population, for God's sake, I'm willing to give up a few damn rights for a while. That's one hell of a desperate situation.

Of course, if this didn't happen maybe we'd finally get to fix up our beat up cars and take to the highways Mad Max style tongue

dangerobby

dangerobby

New Zealand
January 2003

MAR 22, 2004 07:15 AM

This just sounds like something Tom Clancy should write about. As in unbelievable.

Then again, Mr Clancy shies away from anything interesting these days. I wish I was 14 again.

sqook

sqook

I'm lost
September 2002

MAR 22, 2004 07:29 AM

VM said:
I don't see the problem. If we took nukes and somehow DIDN'T get wiped off the face of the planet, we'd need a president right then and there. I think putting congress back togethor is a good idea, eventually, but quite honestly if we've had NUCLEAR MISSILES rain into our major cities and wipe out most of the population, for God's sake, I'm willing to give up a few damn rights for a while. That's one hell of a desperate situation.

Of course, if this didn't happen maybe we'd finally get to fix up our beat up cars and take to the highways Mad Max style tongue



I think the major problem is that a "national emergency" is a relative term. If we were all nicely headed back to the stone age, I would agree with you. However, a situation like this could have easily happened during the sept. 11th attacks, especially if the 4th plane had hit the white house. And of course, it wasn't the end of the world, and we managed to somehow carry on without a totalitarian government's help.

-takes off tinfoil hat-

So yeah, that being said, I read shit like this, and there's really only so much you can buy into it....

Vestril

Vestril

Coronado, CA
February 2003

MAR 22, 2004 08:02 AM

I think it's completely worth buying in to, the problem is I'm not sure what we can do to stop it. You could move, but chances are your new government will have similar provisions somewhere in its machinery, unless you choose to move somewhere with a weak or non-existent government, a risky proposition in more ways than one (not necessarily a poor choice though).

Also, in the article above it didn't broadly define national emergency, it said very specifically nuclear threat (percieved or real). I'll grant you though, a similar plan was probably devised for a terrorist strike that might take out large chunks of leadership, but that has the same problem--they would have to die or be threatened. Some sort of coup could be engineered out of this of course...but if someone wanted to take control of this country and could exploit those plans to do it--they probably would have found a way anyway.

I guess the point of the article (reading it in full alertness now) was that Cheney and Rumsfield were involved and are currently two of the most powerful people in the country. I don't really have a comment to that, except to say that it seemed practical to me...

ChrisSick

ChrisSick

Philadelphia, PA
March 2008

MAR 22, 2004 08:26 AM

I already assume Cheney and Rumsfield run my country anyway, so I'm not that concerned at the propect of them continuing to run it after the rivers boil and the deserts are burned to glass. Shit, I live in the east coast megaopolis between D.C. and NYC, I'm getting radation posioning anyway, let those assholes have the country.

Remember, the living will envy the dead.

Dante0

Dante0

Sandusky, OH
September 2003

MAR 22, 2004 08:39 AM

Eh, who cares who runs the country after the bombs hit? I'll just get a head start on everyone else and jump in my car with a V8 Interceptor, and drive around the desolate countryside with my dog, kicking peoples asses for gasoline.

Hael

Hael

HOPEFUL

Orlando, FL

MAR 22, 2004 08:53 AM

Sounds to me like they are setting the country up to be (even more of) a dictatorship after any sort of major disaster. Take away congress and you are taking away one of the links between the "leaders" and the actual people of the country.

[Edited on Mar 22, 2004 by leah_diane]

Hael

Hael

HOPEFUL

Orlando, FL

MAR 22, 2004 08:54 AM

fuck i hit the wrong button

[Edited on Mar 22, 2004 by leah_diane]

peart

peart

West Lafayette, IN
May 2003

MAR 22, 2004 08:33 PM

Okay folks take a deep breath and before you lash out at bush for any reason remember these contengency plans have been in effect for all presidents for decades.

Adroitbeing

Adroitbeing

I'm lost
September 2003

MAR 22, 2004 08:50 PM

Dante0 said:
Eh, who cares who runs the country after the bombs hit? I'll just get a head start on everyone else and jump in my car with a V8 Interceptor, and drive around the desolate countryside with my dog, kicking peoples asses for gasoline.



Just you and Blood, racing around the desert avoiding the Screamers. God i loved that movie!

Helter

Helter

Chester, PA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 22, 2004 09:08 PM

VM said:
but quite honestly if we've had NUCLEAR MISSILES rain into our major cities and wipe out most of the population, for God's sake, I'm willing to give up a few damn rights for a while. That's one hell of a desperate situation.



Really, any nuclear missiles will be targeted at key points, they won't be carpet bombing the entire country. This would lead to a very decentralized nation of somewhat isolated and anachronistic, but undamaged communities. Chances are that despite what the law says, after such an event you'd find that *in practice* your rights would be greatly expanded.
After all, your rights can only be limited to the degree that your government can enforce imposed limitations.

prnkstrss

prnkstrss

Portland, OR
February 2003

MAR 22, 2004 10:15 PM

Yeah, that whole "shadow government" thing after 9-11 really pissed me off, we have a Constitution with a guaranteed line of succession!!! damnit!!!

adjusts my tin foil hat wink

Muzencab

Muzencab

Federal Way, WA
November 2003

MAR 22, 2004 10:20 PM

MAD FUCKING MAX!!!!

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

MAR 22, 2004 10:23 PM

Helter said:
Chances are that despite what the law says, after such an event you'd find that *in practice* your rights would be greatly expanded.
After all, your rights can only be limited to the degree that your government can enforce imposed limitations.



that's what i was just thinking. if the federal government couldn't even get it together enough to reboot congress, i would love to see them try to stop me from downloading stolen xbox games, broadcasting hardcore porno over tv frequencies, and handing out two inch thick blunts to school children. let's face it. a devastating nuke attack would lead to anarchy, not tyranny.

Helter

Helter

Chester, PA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 22, 2004 11:12 PM

s5 said:
that's what i was just thinking. if the federal government couldn't even get it together enough to reboot congress, i would love to see them try to stop me from downloading stolen xbox games, broadcasting hardcore porno over tv frequencies, and handing out two inch thick blunts to school children. let's face it. a devastating nuke attack would lead to anarchy, not tyranny.



well I don't know about anarchy... remember that your local police don't derive their authority from any federal organization, but from the local and state government.
Generally though, I've found that the locals don't really care about crimes that don't affect anyone else. Say hello to de facto drug legalization! (at least for drugs that aren't normally associated with street crime, like marijuana)

[Edited on Mar 22, 2004 by Helter]

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

MAR 22, 2004 11:14 PM

legalize drugs! support nuclear war!

Helter

Helter

Chester, PA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 22, 2004 11:28 PM

s5 said:
legalize drugs! support nuclear war!



I'll send a dollar to the first person who sends me an honest picture of that on a sign at a protest.

Michael_DeSade

Michael_DeSade

Seattle, WA
OLD SKOOL

MAR 22, 2004 11:31 PM

I don't need a dollar that badly.
ARRR!!!

hansel

hansel

I'm lost
December 2003

MAR 22, 2004 11:35 PM

can I use the dollar to snort the newly legalized coke into my nose like a fiend?

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