s5 said:
the problem is that you just described the coffee industry in general. mom and pop shops rarely carry the fair trade stuff. maybe if starbucks led the way and drove the market for fair trade beans, the price might drop and everyone would have greater access.
i agree with you there. however, everyone i have talked to at starbucks here in canada has said that there is no way starbucks will ever move to carry fair trade coffee all the time. i would like to think that perhaps one day they will, but until that time i buy fairly traded coffee from people like ten thousand villages and oxfam/bridgehead.
and a lot of mom and pop shops here in toronto carry fairly traded coffee. i'll take you out for some if you're ever up here.
Well, they purchased SODO center for their Seattle headquarters. This building has been a landmark of the SODO district of Seattle forever. First thing they did was tear down the the Giant SODO sign on top and put their stupid corporate logo up in its place. Ever heard of SODO Mojo, now its Starbucks Mojo.
s5 said:
anyone who has any shred of decency either quits after a few weeks or, if they're like me, sticks around for the humor value. turnover is high.
I lasted 90 minutes in telemarketing.
I lasted nearly two years at Starbucks, though. I think it really can be a good place for some employees. One of my co-workers took on the job when he was laid off from Boeing and supported his family with the wages (piddling though they were in comparison) and insurance he made there.
photogrrl said:
they support coffee bean suppliers that pay sub standard wages in countries with few or no labour standards. often time the workers are exposed to toxic chemicals without proper training or protection.
they recently introduced "fair trade" coffee, that they sell only one day a month. i think this says alot about their regular coffees.
Actually, Fair Trade is sold every day. It's only brewed as a coffee of the day once a month. I think they could do a LOT more to promot Fair Trade as a coffee and really get people interested in it, if it a) tasted better and b) had a better marketing push.
In Pittsburgh there's a Starbucks right across the street from a local coffee shop called Beehive. I think a lot of the animosity in PGH comes from the fact that there's the whole 'which coffee shop do you go into?' kinda thing. Like Beehive people think they're cooler than Starbucks people, and Starbucks people think they're better than Beehive people. And god forbid that you be seen walking from one directly to the other! *gasp* Outside of this city tho, I can't venture a guess. *shrug*
BTW, personally I go to neither... I'm more of a 'stay at home and drink tea' kinda person.
pr0ject605 said:
I think a lot of the animosity in PGH comes from the fact that there's the whole 'which coffee shop do you go into?' kinda thing. Like Beehive people think they're cooler than Starbucks people, and Starbucks people think they're better than Beehive people.
Actually, Fair Trade is sold every day. It's only brewed as a coffee of the day once a month. I think they could do a LOT more to promot Fair Trade as a coffee and really get people interested in it, if it a) tasted better and b) had a better marketing push.
i stand corrected. you are right, you can buy the beans everyday. i was referring to the fact that it is only brewed once a month, and that really is the only time it's marketed at all.
I stopped going there because I'm trying to say away from what they sell -- a coffee slurpy.
It's not that hard to get a decent cup of coffee or iced americano somewhere else anyway.
The whole multi-tentacled all encompassing corporate entity that chokes the life out of smaller independent cafes isn't all that good either.
I think it's cool that my community protested the arrival of the first invading Starbucks.
pr0ject605 said:
In Pittsburgh there's a Starbucks right across the street from a local coffee shop called Beehive. I think a lot of the animosity in PGH comes from the fact that there's the whole 'which coffee shop do you go into?' kinda thing. Like Beehive people think they're cooler than Starbucks people, and Starbucks people think they're better than Beehive people. And god forbid that you be seen walking from one directly to the other! *gasp* Outside of this city tho, I can't venture a guess. *shrug*
BTW, personally I go to neither... I'm more of a 'stay at home and drink tea' kinda person.
I go to the Beehive on a semi-regular basis meaning when i'm in the neighborhood. I work for Starbucks as i stated above, but the Beehive is waaaaay cooler and filled with much more interesting peepz.
Moonflight in Robinson has been in the same place for like 15 years and when Starbucks put in a drive through they put one right across the street. Moonflight's still there. There's a different atmosphere and clientel alltogether which makes those two places relatively secure in their existance.
pr0ject605 said:
I think a lot of the animosity in PGH comes from the fact that there's the whole 'which coffee shop do you go into?' kinda thing. Like Beehive people think they're cooler than Starbucks people, and Starbucks people think they're better than Beehive people.
Max16Characters said:
I go to the Beehive on a semi-regular basis meaning when i'm in the neighborhood. I work for Starbucks as i stated above, but the Beehive is waaaaay cooler and filled with much more interesting peepz.
do you ever go in wearing your starbucks uniform? that would be a fine photo-op waiting to happen.
pr0ject605 said:
In Pittsburgh there's a Starbucks right across the street from a local coffee shop called Beehive. I think a lot of the animosity in PGH comes from the fact that there's the whole 'which coffee shop do you go into?' kinda thing. Like Beehive people think they're cooler than Starbucks people, and Starbucks people think they're better than Beehive people. And god forbid that you be seen walking from one directly to the other! *gasp* Outside of this city tho, I can't venture a guess. *shrug*
BTW, personally I go to neither... I'm more of a 'stay at home and drink tea' kinda person.
I go to the Beehive on a semi-regular basis meaning when i'm in the neighborhood. I work for Starbucks as i stated above, but the Beehive is waaaaay cooler and filled with much more interesting peepz.
Moonflight in Robinson has been in the same place for like 15 years and when Starbucks put in a drive through they put one right across the street. Moonflight's still there. There's a different atmosphere and clientel alltogether which makes those two places relatively secure in their existance.
Actually, from what I heard they made Beehive into smoking and nonsmoking sections... so if I had to choose I'd go there for the comfort factor alone.
By the way, if you go there regularly, I'm sure we know some of the same people. My old roomie frequents Beehive all too often.
Thistle said:
I don't like Starbucks because most independent coffee shops make much better coffee, play better music, have a better ambience, and aren't corporations. I think the general hatred of them comes from them being on like every street corner.
Yep...and the fact that they are on every street corner puts all those great little coffee shops that we love so much out of business. I've seen several of my favorite coffee shops go under when Starbucks opened up right across the fucking street.
Take this passage from a very thorough document on the history and business practices of Starbucks prepared by the Thunderbird Graduate School for International Management:
"The company was widely considered ruthless in its real estate practices. Practices included paying premiums over existing rental prices to push square footage prices up, retaining closed properties to prevent competitor entry, and generally aggressive property negotiations. The refusal to franchise allowed the firm to pursue real estate and store proliferation strategies which did not conflict with corporate goals; all stores were Starbucks-owned and operated, and therefore 'turf' was not an issue."
On the other hand, though, they've done a lot of really good work to ensure that coffee farmers worldwide earn fair wages and have decent living conditions. From the same document as the above passage:
"Starbucks was a regular and growing giver, supporting relief organizations such as CARE, the nonprofit international relief organization, as well as providing direct support to farmers and farm communities around the world. For example, Starbucks had contributed $43,000 in 2001 to the construction of a health clinic and school in Guatemala and a health clinic in East Timor. The company was also providing aid in a variety of ways to the improvement of coffee processing facilities in a number of the countries of origin."
Starbucks also supports certified Fair Trade coffee buying practices. If that doesn't mean anything substantial to you (it didn't to me until recently) this might help you get an idea of what that means. From this story:
"The wholesale price for Arabic beans, the type used by specialty coffee roasters, is about 51 cents a pound. Fair Trade growers are paid $1.26 per pound for their beans. All the money goes to the farmer, not to a wholesaler or middleman." That's a tad misleading, since the actual price is negotiated with the individual co-op by the buyer, but it's representative of the value of Fair Trade practices over traditional wholesale purchasing.
They also enter into long-term (3 to 5 year) contracts with growers to ensure that growers have capital during tough times, and provide financial assistance in times of stress. They provided financing for more than 1.2 million pounds of coffee in 2002 (205 farmers received pre-harvest financing, 691 postharvest financing). This financing would be difficult if not impossible for growers to procure if not for the Starbucks loan guarantee programs.
As much as I hate the fact that Starbucks forces their employees to fit a certain aesthetic, disregard local customs and cultural forces during international expansion, and force their competitors out of the market altogether with brutal real estate practices, I have to admit that the fact that they work so hard to enrich the lives of traditionally underpaid worldwide coffee growers is more important. So I'd say they are, as a company, more positive than negative.
Actually, Fair Trade is sold every day. It's only brewed as a coffee of the day once a month. I think they could do a LOT more to promot Fair Trade as a coffee and really get people interested in it, if it a) tasted better and b) had a better marketing push.
i stand corrected. you are right, you can buy the beans everyday. i was referring to the fact that it is only brewed once a month, and that really is the only time it's marketed at all.
I'll agree with you there. If they truly wanted to promote Fair Trade, they're all marketing whizes there and i'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for them to make fair trade the new buzz word in coffee. But they don't and i will agree that at best, it's a token commitment to the practice.
One thing i find pretty weak is that they go through all the trouble of getting Certified Organic Shade Grown Coffe (very yummy BTW) and yet in the decaf form they use chemicals rendering it no longer Organic. They could easily use the Swiss Water process to make it chem free and still Organic, but for some silly reason they don't. Decaf Mocha Java is Swiss Water processed if that's important to you, but drinking decaf coffee to me is pretty fucking pointless.
Max16Characters said:
I go to the Beehive on a semi-regular basis meaning when i'm in the neighborhood. I work for Starbucks as i stated above, but the Beehive is waaaaay cooler and filled with much more interesting peepz.
do you ever go in wearing your starbucks uniform? that would be a fine photo-op waiting to happen.
I make it a point to do as little in my dress code outside of work as possible. I also make it a point to NEVER use Starbucks terminology at an independent place as that's pretty rude IMO.
Can they do more? Of course. But seriously, there are far worse global companies out there that aren't putting half the effort into improving conditions for anyone worldwide as Starbucks is.
Also, according to their site, they only brew Fair Trade coffee once a month to be featured as their coffee of the day, but it can be brewed at any time at customer's request.
Oryx
SUICIDEGIRL
Zambia
MAR 15, 2004 12:41 AM