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Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 04:24 PM

Something for everyone to hate in here, but it ends up with $238B in surpluses...


http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/07/29/take-chainsaw-budget-2


Defense cut by 2/3: $475 billion (Federal Budget, pg. 58)

Medicare/Medicaid*: $441 billion (Cato Institute)

Social Security Means Testing: $170 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate Dept. of Education (includes Pell Grants): $106.9 billion (Cato Institute)

Social Security*: $85.7 billion (Cato Institute)

Eliminate Dept. of Transportation: $84.8 billion (Cato Institute)

Tax Amnesty: $80 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)

Eliminate Dept. of Labor*: $78.6 billion (Department of Labor and White House)

Eliminate HUD: $60.8 billion (Cato Institute)

Eliminate Dept. of Agriculture*: $33 billion (Cato Institute)

Cut civilian employee compensation: $30 billion (Cato Institute)

Stop maintaining vacant federal property: $25 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate Foreign Aid: $21.2 billion (Cato Institute)

Eliminate Dept. of Energy*: $20.8 billion (Cato Institute)

Eliminate NASA: $19.6 billion (Cato Institute)

Federal Drug War: $15 billion (White House)

Earmark moratorium: $16 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate Fannie/Freddie Subsidies: $14 billion (Federal Housing Finance Agency (p. 10))

Eliminate Dept. of Commerce: $13.9 billion (Department of Commerce)

Eliminate Dept. of Interior: $12 billion (White House)

Legalize Pot, Online gambling, Immigrants: $12 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)

Privatize Army Corps of Engineers: $10.6 billion (Cato Institute)

Cut federal employee travel budget: $10 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate National Science Foundation: $7.4 billion (National Science Foundation)

End EPA’s State and Local grants: $6.5 billion (Cato Institute)

Repeal Davis-Bacon: $6 billion (Republican Study Committee)

Privatize TSA: $5.7 billion (Federal Budget)

Cut Dept. of Justice’s State and Local grants: $5 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Privatize Post Office: $4 billion (White House)

Eliminate Small Business Administration: $1.8 billion (Small Business Administration)

Lease coastal plain of ANWR: $1.5 billion (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate Federal Flood Insurance: $1.3 billion (CBO, pg. 3)

Abolish SEC: $1.3 billion (SEC)

Eliminate Corporation for National Community Service: $1 billion (Cato Institute)

Suspend acquisition of federal office space: $1 billion (Heritage Foundation)

End subsidies for public broadcasting: $500 million (Cato Institute)

Eliminate the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corp: $480 million (Heritage Foundation)

Eliminate the FCC: $439 million (FCC)

Eliminate the Endowments for Arts/Humanities: $332 million (NEA/NEH)

Total Cut: $1,882,619,000,000

Current deficit: $1,645,000,000,000

Surplus Achieved: $237,619,000,000




(Research by Maxim Lott and Charles Couger.)

They don't need to drive us deeper in debt. They choose to. Tune in tonight at 10pm to see how they could choose differently.

--

*Notes

Department of Energy is eliminated except for Nuclear arms maintenance

Department of Agriculture is eliminated, except for food programs for the needy

Department of Labor is eliminated, except for 26-week unemployment benefits

Defense budget would still be $243 billion, more than twice what the next highest country (China) spends

Medicare and Medicaid savings breakdown:

Block grant Medicaid and freeze spending (226)

Repeal 2010 healthcare law (87)

Increase Medicare premiums (39.8)

Cut non-Medicare premiums (37.7)

Cut Medicare payment error rate by 50% (28.6)

Increase Medicare deductibles (12.6)

Tort Reform (10)

Social Security savings breakdown:

Price index initial benefits** 41.1

Raise the normal retirement age** 31.4

Cut Social Security disability program by 10% 13.2

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 01, 2011 04:29 PM

Edited edit: nevermind, for some reason I thought this was the actual bill. Short version of my response to this proposal: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Long version: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Christ, it is basically a declaration of war on everyone but the top 0.01% of the country's wealthiest.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 04:34 PM

you don't want to cut defense spending by 2/3?

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

AUG 01, 2011 04:34 PM

motorfirebox said:
Edited edit: nevermind, for some reason I thought this was the actual bill. Short version of my response to this proposal: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Long version: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Christ, it is basically a declaration of war on the poor.



The poor? It's a declaration of war on virtually the entire country. And I strongly suspect some of those declared "savings" don't actually add up. For example, the post office actually makes money for the government.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 04:41 PM

malkav11 said:
And I strongly suspect some of those declared "savings" don't actually add up. For example, the post office actually makes money for the government.



it does? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/12/politics/main7048546.shtml


(AP) The Postal Service said Friday it lost $8.5 billion last year despite deep cuts of more than 100,000 jobs and other reductions in recent years.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 01, 2011 04:46 PM

Fixer said:
you don't want to cut defense spending by 2/3?


Not at the cost of HUD, the SEC, the Depts of Labor, Agriculture, Commerce, the Interior, and Energy, the SBA, Davis-Bacon, the FCC, most of Social Security, and most of Medicaid/care. It's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater into Mt. Doom. Seriously, anybody who honestly supports this idea should just move to Somalia and have done with it.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 01, 2011 04:52 PM

Stossel proved long ago that he's a fucking idiot.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 04:54 PM

motorboxfire, why can this not be a discussion, and not a 100% take it or leave it?

Nice ad hominem there at the end.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 04:55 PM

Coyotemike said:
Stossel proved long ago that he's a fucking idiot.



I've never heard of him, but why not discuss some of the ideas and not the guy who compiled them?

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 01, 2011 04:56 PM

Make Cohagen president and sell air to the poor: eleventy trillion.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 01, 2011 04:57 PM

Fixer said:

Coyotemike said:
Stossel proved long ago that he's a fucking idiot.



I've never heard of him, but why not discuss some of the ideas and not the guy who compiled them?



His ideas are a slap in the face to every person who has to work for a living.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 01, 2011 05:01 PM

There's no point in discussing it as an itemized list. The proposal basically amounts to "let's not have a government anymore; instead, let's leave all duties of government to the corporate elite". It is an abdication of democracy in favor of plutocracy. I'm not going to debate the finer details of that starting point; I'm going to reject it and look for a better starting point. And if you believe saying "Somalia" is some kind of personal attack, that's on you. The philosophy of government you espouse, in all seriousness, holds up Somalia as an ideal. That's where the paradigm ends up.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 01, 2011 05:03 PM

motorfirebox said:
There's no point in discussing it as an itemized list. .


Especially one made a person that the OP "has never heard of" (which I don't buy for a second).

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 05:05 PM

Coyotemike said:

His ideas are a slap in the face to every person who has to work for a living.



I work for a living and don't feel slapped by talking about some ideas. You're letting your personal opinions on the guy taint your analysis.

Do you support the Federal Drug War, or would you want to see it ended? Can you not say you'd want to see it ended just because this guy Stossel also wants it?

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 05:07 PM

PointBlank said:
Especially one made a person that the OP "has never heard of" (which I don't buy for a second).



Okay, so you'd prefer to call me a liar, you're prerogative but that's pretty fucking rude.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 01, 2011 05:10 PM

Fixer said:

Coyotemike said:

His ideas are a slap in the face to every person who has to work for a living.



I work for a living and don't feel slapped by talking about some ideas. You're letting your personal opinions on the guy taint your analysis.

Do you support the Federal Drug War, or would you want to see it ended? Can you not say you'd want to see it ended just because this guy Stossel also wants it?



You're putting words in my mouth. I called him a fucking idiot. The implication is that I disagree with his ideas.

As others have said, an itemized discussion is useless. This is a Libertarian wish-list. Libertarianism, like most -isms, only sounds good on paper. This doesn't even make it to that level. This is an attack on poor people.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 05:13 PM

so, it's your way or no way, in this democratic republic?

Forgive me for not thinking that your way is the best and only way.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 01, 2011 05:20 PM

Fixer said:
so, it's your way or no way, in this democratic republic?

Forgive me for not thinking that your way is the best and only way.



And what is "my way"?

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

AUG 01, 2011 05:23 PM

Haha, yeah, the left in this country is totally all about refusing to give an inch. That's why the current deal being agreed upon includes at least a dollar of revenue for every three in cuts er I mean five in cuts er I mean let's not worry about revenue right now maybe we'll get to it later.

No, the "my way or the highway" routine is currently the calling card of the Tea Party. I don't demand that the budget be handled my way, but with regards to Stossel's proposal, I will refuse to consider going that way.

Which reminds me of another of the Tea Party's calling cards: the "I know you are but what am I" defense.

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 01, 2011 05:25 PM

Well, no one is saying that it's our or no way. We're saying fuck no to Stossel's "way" which is just a publicity ploy.

A list of "cuts" that doesn't explain the cost of those cuts is typical non-thought by Stossel. Really, cutting 2/3 of the military would be great, but what would removing that money do? Where is it removed from? How would removing troops from overseas add to jobless numbers here? How would pulling 475 billion dollars help job figures or the economy? What would happen to the people who make weapons?

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

AUG 01, 2011 05:29 PM

PointBlank said:
Well, no one is saying that it's our or no way. We're saying fuck no to Stossel's "way" which is just a publicity ploy.

A list of "cuts" that doesn't explain the cost of those cuts is typical non-thought by Stossel. Really, cutting 2/3 of the military would be great, but what would removing that money do? Where is it removed from? How would removing troops from overseas add to jobless numbers here? How would pulling 475 billion dollars help job figures or the economy? What would happen to the people who make weapons?



Cuts that big means "fuck vet benefits"

PointBlank

PointBlank

New York, NY
November 2004

AUG 01, 2011 05:47 PM

Why do people say they want to start a discussion and not participate? Why not start the discussion in the original post instead of only copying/pasting?

What, exactly do you LIKE about this list? Please note that Stossel isn't just talking about making one of the cuts, he's talking about making ALL of them, with no context, no method, no reasoning...what is good about that?

He mentions ending the "war on drugs, " but what does that mean? He mentions legalizing pot, but is that included in ending the war on drugs? Would other drugs be legalized?

See, this is the discussion part.

Fixer

Fixer

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

AUG 01, 2011 06:43 PM

PointBlank said:
Why do people say they want to start a discussion and not participate? Why not start the discussion in the original post instead of only copying/pasting?



I had just come across this on another forum, and hadn't just fully digested it and formulated my opinions. In a quick view, I thought it was interesting enough to consider, and thought I'd bring it here to give you the same chance to read and consider it.

The linked url has more details in the sources linked to, such as the source of the $15B "Federal Drug War" number, as one example.

Canadian_Coat

Canadian_Coat

Brockville, ON
September 2008

AUG 01, 2011 06:57 PM

I wonder what the US would have looked like if they never had NASA, National Science Foundation, the EPA, financial regulations, social security and medicare (for the most part) and the Department of Labour?

I bet it would only look better whatever

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

AUG 01, 2011 07:07 PM

I'm not sure why the US government needs to be returned to budget surplus within a year, and I'm certainly not sure why it should be done with no tax increases whatsoever.

As in, I don't get any of the point of this at all, except for it being rhetorically appealing to Tea-Party slash-and-burners.

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