The importance of unions

The Wisconsin thread has served somewhat as a catch-all for union-related news, but it feels kinda weird to just start slapping any and every union-related thought and article that comes up in there--the Wisconsin situation is an issue unto itself, and neither it nor the broader issue of unions in general deserve to be watered down by having to share space.

That said, I basically just made this thread so I could post a link about why and how Apple employees want to unionize. There have been a few other union-y stories I wanted to draw attention to, which I'll get around to at some point if I don't forget completely.

Here's another reason why unions are important.

Based upon healthcare only, what else has this administration done? Golf? Use AF1 for campaigning? Parties at the WH? He has spent most of his time sucking up to unions and supporters for the majority of his administration. His foreign policy sucks more than Bush's and can't stop talking about family instead of getting directly involved in the pertinent issues. Lets get real people, Alan West calls him out on a constant basis. Obama is useless and keeps hiring people so he can go on a four year vacation. Tell me one fucking thing he has done to boost this nation???

This thread isn't about Obama. This thread is about unions. They both have an o in them but they are not the same word!

There is massive amounts of roadwork being done in my area thanks to the recovery act. Probably even some by union workers. (Like how I brought it back on topic?) I realize it is hard to look at the other side, but how much of the attempts to get shit done has been stopped by the Republicans grandstanding? How much more problems are we dealing with due to Republican union busting? Stop trolling, you're worse at it than I am.

And ya know what? Businesses and mega-corps have many ways in which they unionize.

They also would be nothing--absolutely nothing--without the people who work for them, and the people who buy from them, which is the mostly the schmoes who also work for them. But if they can continue eroding the reproductive rights of women--keeping people tethered to large, unaffordable families, people will continue sweating it out, taking whatever jobs they can, for whatever penitence they can, and more people desperate to put themselves through the war grinder.

Oh, look!

This nation will be one big Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, to the delight of the industrialists and their ideological henchmen.

This country already is the TSF, when richest o f the rich fuck up on wallstreet and within the banking system, everyone else gets burned. Also, the Republican party seems bent on preventing an economic recovery with a Democratic controlled Executive. They are playing the CIA's game here on American soil: destabilize the country to wrest control, it's no accident that union busting is going on amid an economic crisis where corporations continue to reap major profits.

^^ You are correct, sir. I do not know why I tried to make it softer.

So, what are your views concerning the importance, or otherwise of trade unions?

What are your views concerning the linked article in the original post (the article concerning Apple employees who want union membership)?

What kind of contribution has the trade union movement made to workplace conditions and workers' rights since it got going in the 1800s? Do you think that trade unions have played a positive or a negative role? Do you think that they have made a worthwhile contribution to workers' conditions?

Are you a worker? If so, do you think your working conditions would be better or worse if the trade union movement had never happened? Do you ever feel that there are ways in which your working conditions could be improved? Do you think that a trade union could help to facilitate change for the better in your workplace?

Here's what unions have done for me:
8 hour days
40 hour work week
overtime pay
child labor laws
worker safety laws
minimum wage
collective bargaining
sick leave
paid vacations
statutory holidays
job security

But when I think about it what have unions done for me lately?
I think unions in someways are misunderstood because the majority of workers are not union workers.

Nearly half of Americans are financially fragile.

Yes, too many of us are living paycheck to paycheck, all it takes is an illness, injury or other emergency and it's all downhill from there.

I have worked in a couple of different unions. (UFCW and the UAW)
As a former UAW member, the plant I worked in back in Ohio was closed down and moved to Mexico or somewhere outside the US.

I started during the bankruptcy and still made a decent wage. As to the "benefit" of the union, we were tasked with making a certain amount of door latches "x" per shift. If we (the assembly line workers) started to get ahead of schedule, someone (not management) would come over and tell us to slow down. Great work ethic!

Now a days I don't see what the unions contribute to the workers, all they seem to do is take the dues and contribute them to their progressive candidates.

____
I like how that "Financially Fragile" article states that households with women are vulnerable... Nice!

As to the root cause, most Americans do not put aside anything at all for an emergency (rainy day) fund. Even if you are living paycheck to paycheck you can still put aside a few bucks here and there. If you are "unable" then stop smoking, drinking, doing drugs. They can cancel the cable, internet, and any other superfluous purchases.

I am sorry, but your anecdote about your personal experience, whether true or not, does not amount to a hill of beans.

You made a bald statement about someone slowing production if it went over scheduled amounts, but you stop there with absolutely no further analysis of any reasons. I can think of a good reason, but since you made the statement, it is your job to elucidate.

And, when people pretend to know why people can or can not save, if they are or are not doing anything like drinking and drugging--as if that has anything whatever to do with unionizing--it is a total slight of hand.

It has nothing to do with worker wages, hours, or safety.

Please try again.

Yeah, those unions never did nothin' for air traffic controllers--or the lives that depend on them. (Shit, I just realized I already started a union thread a few months back.)

Yes it was a bald statement, I am not trying to conceal anything. We were not supposed to go over the daily manufacturing quotas based on the unwritten rule of the old hands that had been there for 20+ years. As best as I can tell, if management had proof that the assembly lines could produce more than x latches in a shift then they would want that on a regular basis. Why the union members didn't want do be more productive, I have no idea. Like I said, probably a piss poor work ethic.

You are right: my anecdote, your opinions, and everyone elses don't mean a damn thing, and have no value except to the originator.

As to the second half of my statement it has absolutely nothing to do with unions, merely a reply to the article that was linked. I would have thought that was apparent what with me separating my statements and actually referencing the article... :facepalm:

But, of course, mega-corps should be unimpeded in forming cartels, consortiums and the like. They count as mega-citizens, according to SCOTUS.

Examples please

So, you really, really believe it was poor work ethic than, say, keeping quotas at a rate that people--everyone--could actually maintain over time? Or not pacing workers out of a job?

Ya know, corporate interests are not the only ones who can and should be tactical. Some people seem to think that corporate interests are the ones who should have the absolute right to be ruthlessly so.

And it is seems to always be that people who hold your opinions are the great workers, and the other guys were the shiftless, contemptuous ones. Why is that?

Never-the-less, you still have no basis for your statement about people's habits.

You can not be serious.

When everyone in the plant is lined up at the gates 30 mins before the end of the shift and milling around the line 15 mins before that, I doubt there is any problem with pacing.

Well, people apply to work at these places (see I am making a general statement ) if you don't want to adhere to their policies then find someplace else to work.

HOWEVER!!!
I do not believe that your place of employment has any right to dictate to you what you can and can not do off the clock! I find it repugnant that there are businesses that will fire employees because they smoke (Scotts)

Never said I was a great worker. I will bust my ass for the company I work for, until they try to, or actually screw me over.

Real life experience.
I know people who leech off the system.
I know people who happily live paycheck to paycheck and do nothing to save, because the government will give them money (tax dollars) or know someone who will "lend" them the cash

Yes.
You see, I work literally 60-100+ hours a week in the oilfields. I do not have time to keep up with what is going on in every level of our corrupt government!

If you are going to bring up a point that is mainly used in cyberpunk, please be kind enough to point it out in REAL life.

Umm. . . Cyberpunk?

I don't understand ...