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MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

FEB 17, 2010 04:39 PM

I cannot wait to get the fuck out of South Carolina, so that I may freely spend my worthless Federal cash money without the inbreds in power trying to ban it.

South Carolina Rep. Mike Pitts has introduced legislation that would mandate that gold and silver coins replace federal currency as legal tender in his state.

As the Palmetto Scoop first reported, Pitts, a Republican, introduced legislation this month banning "the unconstitutional substitution of Federal Reserve Notes for silver and gold coin" in South Carolina.

In an interview, Pitts told Hotsheet that he believes that "if the federal government continues to spend money at the rate it's spending money, and if it continues to print money at the rate it's printing money, our economic system is going to collapse."

"The Germans felt their system wouldn't collapse, but it took a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread in the 1930s," he said. "The Soviet Union didn't think their system would collapse, but it did. Ours is capable of collapsing also."

The lawmaker believes that a shift to an economy based on gold and silver coins would give the state a "base of currency" should that collapse come. As one expert told the Scoop, however, his bill would likely be ruled unconstitutional because it "violates a perfectly legal and Constitutional federal law, enacted pursuant to the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, that federal reserve notes are legal tender for all debts public and private."

In addition, since gold and silver regularly fluctuate in value, they could not easily function as stable currency.

But Pitts maintains that his state is better off with something he can hold in his hand and barter with as opposed to federal currency, which he described to the Scoop as "paper with ink on it." He says he resents what he considers the federal government's intrusions on states' rights.

Though he did not offer a timeframe, Pitts told Hotsheet that he anticipates a nationwide economic collapse "if our federal government continues the course it's been traveling under the previous administration and this administration."



So yes, take away our "paper with ink on it" and give us our shiny rocks. I can't wait to spend my Confederate gold on a tank of gas and drive the fuck out of this swampy, bass ackwards motherfucker.

Mr_Matt_

Mr_Matt_

Pompano Beach, FL
July 2005

FEB 17, 2010 04:47 PM

Well, it fits with the relentless advertising of gold by Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly et al.

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

FEB 17, 2010 04:51 PM

I'm sorry Rep. Pitts, but this will never catch on in DC, or the elite East Coast for that matter. You simply cannot snort blow through a gold coin.

Mr_Matt_ said:
Well, it fits with the relentless advertising of gold by Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly et al.



Well it's a good thing I sent all my jewelry to Goldline. Wait a minute.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

FEB 17, 2010 05:48 PM

In an interview, Pitts told Hotsheet that he believes that "if the federal government continues to spend money at the rate it's spending money, and if it continues to print money at the rate it's printing money, our economic system is going to collapse."


hahahaha! yes! because that is what is driving inflation! it's certainly not the hundreds of trillions of non-existant dollars that your fucktarded economic policies allowed Wall Street to create out of thin air!

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

FEB 17, 2010 06:32 PM

Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

FEB 17, 2010 06:40 PM

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



I'm going to start painting rocks, because I'm pretty sure no one down here will be able to tell the difference. Maybe I'll even be able to afford my own plantation!

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

FEB 17, 2010 06:40 PM

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



No, there isn't enough gold to go around. That's one of the reasons why no one has used an actual gold specie standard in ages. Even a gold-backed currency, like we used to have, uses fractional reserves.

Gold and silver coins also fall victim to all sorts of adulteration, counterfeiting, and what-have-you. They're really not such a good idea.

Katieesq

Katieesq

USA
June 2008

FEB 17, 2010 08:07 PM

Sick said:

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



No, there isn't enough gold to go around. That's one of the reasons why no one has used an actual gold specie standard in ages. Even a gold-backed currency, like we used to have, uses fractional reserves.

Gold and silver coins also fall victim to all sorts of adulteration, counterfeiting, and what-have-you. They're really not such a good idea.



Sick is absolutely right. Gold and silver coins often suffered "clipping," during which a coin would be shaved of some of its weight in order to make more coin. The debasement of coin was a big 18th century concern.

I'm really, really overwhelmed that a state representative is operating without any working knowledge of how a general equivalent is constructed, so I can't post any more right now. I thought we all realized gold had no intrinsic value a year or hundred ago.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

FEB 17, 2010 08:28 PM

MrCrisp said:

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



I'm going to start painting rocks, because I'm pretty sure no one down here will be able to tell the difference. Maybe I'll even be able to afford my own plantation!



May I recommend an alternative use for those rocks? This one involves putting the rocks in a sock and applying them in a swinging motion towards certain political heads.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

FEB 17, 2010 09:05 PM

Hi. Article 1, Section 8. Look it up.

This is about the wastingest of wastes of time.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

FEB 17, 2010 09:11 PM

Sick said:

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



No, there isn't enough gold to go around. That's one of the reasons why no one has used an actual gold specie standard in ages. Even a gold-backed currency, like we used to have, uses fractional reserves.

Gold and silver coins also fall victim to all sorts of adulteration, counterfeiting, and what-have-you. They're really not such a good idea.



I think people fail to realize that pure gold and silver are actually soft metals and easily manipulated.

In order to use gold and silver as currency, they would have to be mixed with other metals that would create strength in order to make the currency usable and give it a life expectancy of longer than a month before it loses shape. Let's face it, people beat the shit out of money.

So if i were to make a purchase of.....
~two gallons of milk
~ a carton of Pall Mall non-filters
~3- 40's of Grape Maddog 20/20
~3-cans of compressed air (purely for cleaning computer keyboards)
~a 12-pack of Magnum Trojans (yes i need the big ones)
~some lube for the fistin' ladiiez
~an Astro's hat
....in my local South Carolina shop and it came to $100.00 + taxi would only need about a half pound of pure silver or a little more than a quarter pound of pure gold.

If the gold and silver are mixed with another metal to make it more durable, you're probably looking at a pound of non-pure silver and a half pound of non-pure gold. Have fun getting that in your wallet. Have fun purchasing something over $1,000 and carrying your five pounds of silver around.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

FEB 17, 2010 09:19 PM

DevilsReject said:

Sick said:

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



No, there isn't enough gold to go around. That's one of the reasons why no one has used an actual gold specie standard in ages. Even a gold-backed currency, like we used to have, uses fractional reserves.

Gold and silver coins also fall victim to all sorts of adulteration, counterfeiting, and what-have-you. They're really not such a good idea.



I think people fail to realize that pure gold and silver are actually soft metals and easily manipulated.

In order to use gold and silver as currency, they would have to be mixed with other metals that would create strength in order to make the currency usable and give it a life expectancy of longer than a month before it loses shape. Let's face it, people beat the shit out of money.

So if i were to make a purchase of.....
~two gallons of milk
~ a carton of Pall Mall non-filters
~3- 40's of Grape Maddog 20/20
~3-cans of compressed air (purely for cleaning computer keyboards)
~a 12-pack of Magnum Trojans (yes i need the big ones)
~some lube for the fistin' ladiiez
~an Astro's hat
....in my local South Carolina shop and it came to $100.00 + taxi would only need about a half pound of pure silver or a little more than a quarter pound of pure gold.

If the gold and silver are mixed with another metal to make it more durable, you're probably looking at a pound of non-pure silver and a half pound of non-pure gold. Have fun getting that in your wallet. Have fun purchasing something over $1,000 and carrying your five pounds of silver around.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.



That's why you use Platinum pieces or Astral Diamonds for bigger purchases, obviously.

Or just get a Bag of Holding to keep all of the extra GP you're lugging around.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
Sadly, the things I'm referencing are no more fantastic than the concept of using the Gold standard for currency.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

FEB 17, 2010 09:20 PM

DevilsReject said:

Sick said:

Coyotemike said:
Just out of curiosity, is there even enough gold to go around, to replace all the non-existent dollars? If not, what exactly are we supposed to do with what little gold there is?



No, there isn't enough gold to go around. That's one of the reasons why no one has used an actual gold specie standard in ages. Even a gold-backed currency, like we used to have, uses fractional reserves.

Gold and silver coins also fall victim to all sorts of adulteration, counterfeiting, and what-have-you. They're really not such a good idea.



I think people fail to realize that pure gold and silver are actually soft metals and easily manipulated.

In order to use gold and silver as currency, they would have to be mixed with other metals that would create strength in order to make the currency usable and give it a life expectancy of longer than a month before it loses shape. Let's face it, people beat the shit out of money.

So if i were to make a purchase of.....
~two gallons of milk
~ a carton of Pall Mall non-filters
~3- 40's of Grape Maddog 20/20
~3-cans of compressed air (purely for cleaning computer keyboards)
~a 12-pack of Magnum Trojans (yes i need the big ones)
~some lube for the fistin' ladiiez
~an Astro's hat
....in my local South Carolina shop and it came to $100.00 + taxi would only need about a half pound of pure silver or a little more than a quarter pound of pure gold.

If the gold and silver are mixed with another metal to make it more durable, you're probably looking at a pound of non-pure silver and a half pound of non-pure gold. Have fun getting that in your wallet. Have fun purchasing something over $1,000 and carrying your five pounds of silver around.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.



Um it does cost more to make a penny than it's worth, same as a nickel

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny.htm

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

FEB 17, 2010 09:23 PM

DevilsReject said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.



I could have sworn reading and hearing that the penny does, in fact, cost more than a penny to make. I saw an interview on the Colbert Report a couple years back, but I don't know what the sources were.

EDIT: *grumble* Colinism beat me to it.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

FEB 17, 2010 09:29 PM

Otoki said:

DevilsReject said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.



I could have sworn reading and hearing that the penny does, in fact, cost more than a penny to make. I saw an interview on the Colbert Report a couple years back, but I don't know what the sources were.

EDIT: *grumble* Colinism beat me to it.



You can prove him wrong next time. wink

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

FEB 17, 2010 09:30 PM

So . . . does this polidiot not see the logical inconsistency of his position? Correct me if I am wrong, but a standard Republican/Conservative/Libertarian standpoint is that we should cut taxes because people should keep more of what they earn, and be in more control of how their money is spent, yes? And yet, if we were to switch over to gold/silver/metal standard, every single person would lose money that they had worked for and can spend, even if that money only exists as electronic ones and zeros on a computer somewhere. The ultra-rich (you know, Bush's favorite charity) would lose more than anyone, effectively shutting down every business in the country.

Then nobody would get paid.

atomicant

atomicant

Portland, OR
June 2003

FEB 17, 2010 09:31 PM

i'm not an economist by any sense, but if the dollar actually does tank and the country goes to absolute shit, does anyone think that gold will be worth anything?

if you're really worried about the american financial system falling completely apart, why not invest in non-perishable food items, water purifying systems, guns and ammunition?

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

FEB 17, 2010 09:42 PM

Subrosa said:
Hi. Article 1, Section 8. Look it up.

This is about the wastingest of wastes of time.


is that right exclusive to Congress?

vermicious_knid

vermicious_knid

Shreveport, LA
February 2008

FEB 17, 2010 10:03 PM

motorfirebox said:

Subrosa said:
Hi. Article 1, Section 8. Look it up.

This is about the wastingest of wastes of time.


is that right exclusive to Congress?



Congress doesn't have rights - they have enumerated powers delegated to them by the people who reserve the right to alter those powers at the time of their choosing through amendment. Governments do not ever have "rights" - Only individuals have rights, which is why they form governments as an instrument used to secure those very rights.

Section 10 more so than 8 of article 1 is the pertinent section regarding the restriction of individual State's powers to coin their own monies.


Section 10.

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.



This proposed idea is no solution. The solution is to disband the Federal Reserve and nationalize it as a publicly controlled agency that issues debt free notes and conducts all of its business in the public eye, rather than the unconstitutional, private, for profit, secretive monstrosity that currently exists.

I applaud those that seek an alternative to the counterfeit system in place now, but this South Carolina version is a lemon.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

FEB 17, 2010 10:08 PM

Since monetary value is based on a social agreement, does it really matter what we use?

vermicious_knid

vermicious_knid

Shreveport, LA
February 2008

FEB 17, 2010 10:09 PM

Coyotemike said:
Since monetary value is based on a social agreement, does it really matter what we use?


No.

Coyotemike

Coyotemike

USA
May 2006

FEB 17, 2010 10:14 PM

vermicious_knid said:

Coyotemike said:
Since monetary value is based on a social agreement, does it really matter what we use?


No.



Then why does anyone give care if our money is shiny yellow rocks or numerals on a computer screen? They have the same spending power (although one is easier to carry).

vermicious_knid

vermicious_knid

Shreveport, LA
February 2008

FEB 17, 2010 10:28 PM

Coyotemike said:

vermicious_knid said:

Coyotemike said:
Since monetary value is based on a social agreement, does it really matter what we use?


No.



Then why does anyone give care if our money is shiny yellow rocks or numerals on a computer screen? They have the same spending power (although one is easier to carry).



The arguments for commodity based currency, particularly ones linked to precious commodities such as gold, is that by the very nature of its own scarcity it is difficult to inflate which builds stability into an economy so long as that money continues to circulate. One of the major problems with this kind of a system is that the money supply ("new gold") frequently grows at a rate slower than population growth. It also doesn't allow for mass mobilization and direct allocation in the case of wars, disasters, major economic expansion, new endeavors, etc... That is why commodity currencies have failed in the face of crisis or modernization and are subject to recessions and depressions when any part of the economy requires more money to exist to function. It is also why, as Sick mentioned, little tricks get played to stretch the money, thus negating the stability that such a system is supposed to provide in theory.

The system of an elastic fiat unit is quite helpful, such as the one we have now where toggling interest rates up or down to give an economy the gas or put the brakes on speculation/inflation or encourage saving to influence consumer behaviour.

The major problem that exists within our system is that it is not truly publicly controlled and it uses compounding debt repayment as a quasi commodity as its medium. Eventually more is owed than exists and the value of all debts exceeds all values of assets and labor if allowed to continue upon a long enough time line.

We can issue debt free notes instead of bleeding a significant portion of our productivity to the criminal international banking syndicate that has our popular bodies bent over the barrel.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

FEB 17, 2010 10:48 PM

Otoki said:

DevilsReject said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
The only reason a penny doesn't cost more than a penny to make is because current pennies are almost 98% zinc and about 2% copper. I have heard if you nip the side of a penny on a bench grinder, then heat it up with a mapp-gas torch you can actually melt the zinc out of the penny and have the copper shell of a penny left. I wouldn't know for sure as i don't deface federal currency, it's against the law.



I could have sworn reading and hearing that the penny does, in fact, cost more than a penny to make. I saw an interview on the Colbert Report a couple years back, but I don't know what the sources were.

EDIT: *grumble* Colinism beat me to it.



here we go with the "OMFG! THE MINT LOSES 300 GABILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON THE PENNY!" argument.

Yes, if you look directly at the penny and the nickel, they cost more to manufacture than they are worth. But for the sake of the argument, we'll go ahead and ignore the dime and the quarter and blame the Mint for being a big wasteful government agency.

motorfirebox

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA
March 2004

FEB 17, 2010 10:53 PM

vermicious_knid said:
Eventually more is owed than exists and the value of all debts exceeds all values of assets and labor if allowed to continue upon a long enough time line.


yep. the debt from market derivatives alone is "worth", at the lowest estimates i've seen recently, $104.6k per person on the planet. the highest estimates put it at $224.1k per.

Coyotemike said:
Then why does anyone give care if our money is shiny yellow rocks or numerals on a computer screen? They have the same spending power (although one is easier to carry).


vermicious_knid said it. though unless there were a massive overhaul of the laws regulating the stock market--not just in the US, but globally--i'm pretty sure our current situation could have evolved even if every country on the planet used direct gold-based currency. basically, the guys who are want to go back to the gold standard don't know what the fuck they're talking about. it wouldn't solve any of our current problems, and it would create a lot of new ones. they have this stupid idea that the main driver of inflation is the government "printing more money", completely ignoring that corporate trade practices "print money" in quantities that are several orders of magnitude larger than our entire GDP. as of 2010, government spending is equal to about half of our GDP.

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