Utah debates eliminating the 12th grade

From the LA Times:

That this is even a legitimate debate is indicative of the perverse political era we are now in. The GOP set out over 25 years ago to make government "small enough to drown in a tub" in the words of Grover Nordquist. The drowning has begun--military, police and prison spending not withstanding. This will only worsen if Obama's proposed spending freeze becomes a reality.

I'm all for smart students that can make a demonstration of their knowledge being able to head off to college already without having to put up with "senior skip day," spring break fever that becomes more important than graduation, and etc. etc. etc.

But to suggest simply doing away with senior year institutionally? That's more myopic than "blizzard on the East coast, guess that shows those global warming chumps!" A lot more myopic.

I'd rather take educational advice from this Butters


Honestly, I just cannot imagine what it would be like for a school system if they had to overhaul their whole curriculum to fit 4 years into 3, and then hope that the kids actually excel in college.

Meh, who cares, right? Gotta save cash somewhere.

What strikes me as missing, at least from this blurb, is an acknowledgement that "goofing off" is not symptomatic of the 12th grade itself, but rather a feature of senior year being the last year. In other words, wouldn't we see the same (or a very similar) pattern if the junior year was the final year?

Also: I see too many kids who can't write/think and are 18. I'm not sure I could handle 17 year olds.

Ding ding ding. If you cut off senior year, then "Senioritis" would quickly become "Junioritis." It's bad enough that my grade 11's are laying claim to "Senioritis" without even being seniors yet.

As an eleventh grader I would have loved this idea. As an adult, yeah, not so much.

I <3 U.

This is the perverted logic of the ideology of fiscal conservatism. Cutting spending becomes a sacrosanct value despite the evidence that spending money in certain areas demonstrably saves you money down the road.

They should have a joint program between high school & community colleges to let certain seniors take free classes at the local community college in lieu of time-killing classes to fill out your time as a senior.

I don't know how it was at your high school.....but MY senior year entailed meeting my final state-requirements in 4th year English, 4th year Phys. Ed and 2nd Year Foreign Language and a 2nd year History. The rest of my day consisted of 2 study halls, a lunch period, and a theater workshop.

My high school USED to let you go home after your state-required classes if your other obligations were met....or you could join the work-program. Unfortunately for me...those were both suspended before I got to High School.

I would have MUCH rather taken some basic college-level courses instead of two study-halls a lunch & a theater workshop.

I think a program like that could help kids get a head start on their college careers...OR...save some kids a lot of money who enroll in college only to find that college isn't for them.

The problem with the idea in the original post is that many students are struggling with basic coursework; to eliminate a grade one would have to demonstrate that the majority of students have completed the required work early and/or could handle an accelerated learning pace. Also, some programs (International Baccalaureate) are structured in a way that one has to complete the 12th grade.

In response to bean's post: the high school I graduated from had a contract (and transportation) to some of the local colleges-students could take courses-I knew a few girls who were going to college for nursing who got a leg up on their coursework that way, others were able to have sophomore or upperclassman status when they arrived at college. I exempted courses this way (IB student, took college courses as well). I would rather see: a) curriculum and teacher evaluation to see if the students are learning necessary core skills (what you stated) b) more hs-college partnerships formed for students that can handle advanced coursework (I think these students would be in the minority in any hs) c) the option for early graduation for students that completed the all required coursework in 3 years.

In my hs, the discrepancy was due to so many students flunking out. Eliminating a grade won't help in schools with low graduation rates.

Don't confuse one State Senator opinion/legislation with that of an entire party's platform since I don't think eliminating a whole grade level is in the GOP's platform.

That being said I will agree that this is a bad idea and this Senator isn't very smart since his concession is to make senior year optional which it already is with the GED exam.

One of my daughters opted for the International Baccalaureate program while another opted for the Advanced Placement program throughout high school. Both programs qualified students to attend college level classes at the local university,which they did. A portion of their AP and IB classes were college accredited as well.

The benefits were obvious; they didn't feel like they wasted their time as seniors, the exposure to college helped them with their decision making, and the extra "credit" accelerated their potential advancement through college, shaving off nearly a year of college classes we would have otherwise "paid" for.

That's pretty easy to fix. Just cut eleventh grade.

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Cash, your area doesn't have a post-secondary option? My district has the very program you described. Unfortunaley it's only open to the top students, who may not be the ones who need it most.

Eliminating an entire grade may not be a part of the Utah GOP’s platform but gutting public education (among other government programs) in response to a fiscal crisis induced by Republican tax policies wealthy is right of the GOP playbook written by Nordquist and others and has been a central part of their governing ideology for a quarter century.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by Bean and Cash; however that is not really a part of the policy debate that is taking place in Utah or any other state—almost all of which are gutting both K-12 budgets AND state university and community colleges budgets. The parameters of debate really are the value of a balanced budget vs. expenditures on public education and not expenditures on K-12 education vs. community colleges or balanced budget vs. increasing revenues. I don’t expect the proposal in Utah to be successful, but that it is even being debated in instructive on where policy assumptions lie and how far the ideological debate on such questions has shifted in favor of the right-wing. Obama’s proposed “spending freeze” essentially ceded this ground ideologically.

I agree with the basis premise that 12th grade is not effective for a small, but significant percentage of high school students. I think the Utah solution is flawed. Instead, if you wanted real reform instead of just cost cutting, the 12th grade could be expanded for different paths. E.g., a greater selection and possible licensing of fields preparing for careers such as a year long apprenticeship in nursing, plumbing or drafting, training to become an electrician or computer programmer in place of the normal academic classes.

Ideally most students will continue in a traditional track of college preparation. But for the students who are not going that route and are at risk of dropping out, I think it's a disservice to not offer training for a more-than-minimum-wage job. To protect the middle class, we need more than a one-size-fits-all education system.

The proposal shows that Utah and states all over the US are in a desperate financial situation. If you want further reading look at what Nevada is considering.

Nevada cuts

If states don't get some more help pretty soon, there are going to be cuts in the most basic services all over the country.

Medicaid covers hearing aids? Plans never cover hearing aids; it's disgraceful.

My suspicious mind wonders if this has anything to do with the Mormon tradition of sending kids off to be missionaries between high-school and college.

Interesting thought.

There actually are some programs like the ones you and Cash suggest. Contrary to what was stated below, and converse to AP/IB programs, they're actually intended to try and reach out to students who normally fall through the cracks. It, in theory, asks students to step up to the plate by putting them in the 'big league' (hey, I actually managed to not mix a sports metaphor!) Of course, I still believe it tends to be a self-selecting population, and doesn't necessarily prove success of the intent.

As for having kids leave school already equipped with these skills, I know it isn't your intent, but that is always a slap in the face to every hardworking educator out there. If you think this isn't the goal of every 'failed/failing' educator, you'd (in most cases) be mistaken. It is the emotional drain of this failure combined with the criticisms and implication that we aren't trying that leads to such a high rate of teacher burnout.

That is one of my primary criticisms of "Race to the Top." The nature of the grant implies that we are just a bunch of lazy fucks, and maybe with a carrot in front of our noses we will finally get off our generous asses and try and educate. Thank god we now have incentives! I can unveil my master plan to turn all my kids into straight-A geniuses!

Not to mention that we know who will really be rewarded with these grants.

Am I going off topic? Sorry. I will step off my crazy teacher soapbox now.

Couldn't possibly be the football teams,could it?

I was thinking "Pretty White Kids with Problems," but I doubt the football teams will suffer as much as, say, the AcaDeca kids.

I'm just guessing the arts departments, among others, won't be helped by this any. That's most of what I'm saying.