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Katieesq

Katieesq

USA
June 2008

JUL 02, 2009 04:15 PM

Keeping up with a decades-old tradition of bumbling through yet another fiscal year, California will begin issuing IOUs, a drastic measure not taken since The Great Depression, to the tune of $53.3 million dollars.

By Thursday afternoon, state officials said, 28,742 warrants worth $53.3 million will be printed and readied for distribution. If the state’s fiscal crisis – which has left California unable to pay all of its bills – continues without a budget settlement, it would issue as much as $3.36 billion for the month of July.



Luckily, it's illegal to send out IOUs to state employees. But we've found another way to screw them over.

In the meantime, Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, has ordered state workers to take a third furlough day each month, beginning next Friday, to help stave off a further cash crisis in the state. On Wednesday, he proclaimed a fiscal emergency and called for a special session to continue the budget debate.



And here's the kicker: even banks, those fun, failing institutions, are hesitant to lend to us.
“In evaluating potential registered warrant acceptance, banks have been advised by regulatory authorities to consider such issues as credit quality, capital requirements and concentration limits,” the president of the California Bankers Association, Rod Brown, said in a prepared statement. “Given the poor credit rating of California – the worst in the nation – banks may be hesitant to extend credit to the state.”

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

JUL 02, 2009 05:26 PM

And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUL 02, 2009 05:35 PM

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

JUL 02, 2009 05:44 PM

bean said:

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.



I read an article somewhere that described it as "direct democracy gone awry"

Pip

Pip

Framingham, MA
OLD SKOOL

JUL 02, 2009 05:47 PM

Cassiel said:

bean said:

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.



I read an article somewhere that described it as "direct democracy gone awry"



Subrosa has gone into detail about over the course of several threads. I think the recent prop 8 threads may be a good bit of research. Don't bump them, just read his posts about the California constitution.

Hey Arnie, I bet that car license fee thing you ran against looks pretty damn good now, doesn't it?

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 02, 2009 08:09 PM

Cassiel said:

bean said:

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.



I read an article somewhere that described it as "direct democracy gone awry"



As have I.

sick

sick

Minneapolis, MN
June 2003

JUL 02, 2009 08:21 PM

TheFuckOffKid said:

Cassiel said:

bean said:

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.



I read an article somewhere that described it as "direct democracy gone awry"



As have I.



Is there any other way for direct democracy to go? What with its admitting no cure for the mischiefs of factions and all.

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

JUL 02, 2009 08:51 PM

The simple answer here is that California needs to cut spending. Yeah it's a simple Sarge-World answer, but let me ask you this:

What exactly are you getting out of California's current spending that people in other states aren't getting from their goverment's not spending as much? That's what I'd like to know. Other states don't seem to be having the same problem as California (or at least not even close to the point that California is). What's California doing wrong here?

gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

JUL 02, 2009 09:00 PM

SergeantPsycho said:
The simple answer here is that California needs to cut spending. Yeah it's a simple Sarge-World answer, but let me ask you this:

What exactly are you getting out of California's current spending that people in other states aren't getting from their goverment's not spending as much? That's what I'd like to know. Other states don't seem to be having the same problem as California (or at least not even close to the point that California is). What's California doing wrong here?


California doesn't have a spending problem. Real per capita spending has only increased 2.2% over the last decade. What it has is a revenue problem. Prop 13 has kept corporate property tax artificially low, we're the only oil-extracting state that doesn't charge an extraction fee, and it's practically impossible to increase taxes (although it's dirt easy to reduce them).

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 02, 2009 09:22 PM

I went here to find some cross state comparisons of per capita spending.

Basically, a bunch of states sit within the $9-10K per annum per capita band. Massachussetts is a bit higher, climbing towards $11K, while California is a bit over $11K. New York is well over $14K.

Just so we know.

bean

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUL 02, 2009 11:53 PM

TheFuckOffKid said:
I went here to find some cross state comparisons of per capita spending.

Basically, a bunch of states sit within the $9-10K per annum per capita band. Massachussetts is a bit higher, climbing towards $11K, while California is a bit over $11K. New York is well over $14K.

Just so we know.


Um, you may want to go back and reread that. That $11K figure is state and local spending, which includes massive expenditures for things like water and power, which California municipalities pay vastly more for than other states. The actual spending for the state is about $3900 per capita per year, which is well within the middle range.

Our state's problem is not a spending problem, by any remote stretch of the imagination.

gdarklighter has it right.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 03, 2009 01:42 AM

D'oh.

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

JUL 03, 2009 04:47 AM

gdarklighter said:

SergeantPsycho said:
The simple answer here is that California needs to cut spending. Yeah it's a simple Sarge-World answer, but let me ask you this:

What exactly are you getting out of California's current spending that people in other states aren't getting from their goverment's not spending as much? That's what I'd like to know. Other states don't seem to be having the same problem as California (or at least not even close to the point that California is). What's California doing wrong here?


California doesn't have a spending problem. Real per capita spending has only increased 2.2% over the last decade. What it has is a revenue problem. Prop 13 has kept corporate property tax artificially low, we're the only oil-extracting state that doesn't charge an extraction fee, and it's practically impossible to increase taxes (although it's dirt easy to reduce them).



If you're spending more money than you have to the point of issuing IOUs, you have a spending problem.

TheFuckOffKid

TheFuckOffKid

NEWSWIRE

Australia

JUL 03, 2009 05:32 AM

SergeantPsycho said:

gdarklighter said:

SergeantPsycho said:
The simple answer here is that California needs to cut spending. Yeah it's a simple Sarge-World answer, but let me ask you this:

What exactly are you getting out of California's current spending that people in other states aren't getting from their goverment's not spending as much? That's what I'd like to know. Other states don't seem to be having the same problem as California (or at least not even close to the point that California is). What's California doing wrong here?


California doesn't have a spending problem. Real per capita spending has only increased 2.2% over the last decade. What it has is a revenue problem. Prop 13 has kept corporate property tax artificially low, we're the only oil-extracting state that doesn't charge an extraction fee, and it's practically impossible to increase taxes (although it's dirt easy to reduce them).



If you're spending more money than you have to the point of issuing IOUs, you have a spending problem.


If you're spending more money than you have, you could spend less, or you could find a way to get more money.

Who knew life could be so multi-faceted outside of SargeWorld??

surreal

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

JUL 03, 2009 06:09 AM

SergeantPsycho said:

If you're spending more money than you have to the point of issuing IOUs, you have a spending problem.



Not in this case. If your tax collection system is utterly broken, you have a revenue problem. California per-capita state spending is roughly average.

SergeantPsycho

SergeantPsycho

USA
January 2007

JUL 03, 2009 06:54 AM

Stiles said:

SergeantPsycho said:

If you're spending more money than you have to the point of issuing IOUs, you have a spending problem.



Not in this case. If your tax collection system is utterly broken, you have a revenue problem. California per-capita state spending is roughly average.



You need to match your spending to the money you take in, not match the money you take to you sustain your spending.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

JUL 03, 2009 07:02 AM

SergeantPsycho said:

You need to match your spending to the money you take in, not match the money you take to you sustain your spending.



Right - who needs schools, roads, bridges, police, jails, firefighters, trash collection, water, sewers and libraries anyway?

meatpieboy

meatpieboy

Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004

JUL 03, 2009 07:14 AM

Area State Good For It By Next Year, It Swears

MrCrisp

MrCrisp

I'm lost
August 2004

JUL 03, 2009 07:24 AM

Hey, can you guys fix the state before I move back? Please?

Pip

Pip

Framingham, MA
OLD SKOOL

JUL 03, 2009 08:15 AM

Will this crisis force California to draft a new constitution?

WyldeSage

WyldeSage

I'm lost
June 2008

JUL 03, 2009 08:36 AM

Now I hate living in California even more.

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

JUL 03, 2009 08:36 AM

So far, it looks like Wells Fargo and Bank of America are the only banks accepting the IOUs, and Wells is doing it only for the next seven days. I don't know about B of A.

Necia

Necia

San Francisco, CA
August 2005

JUL 03, 2009 08:39 AM

Sick said:

TheFuckOffKid said:

Cassiel said:

bean said:

Cassiel said:
And you guys can't raise taxes, can you?


We could, if our legislative, referendum, and constitutional amendment processes weren't completely fucked beyond belief. We're practically a case study in what happens when a democracy doesn't have a well-written constitution at its core.



I read an article somewhere that described it as "direct democracy gone awry"



As have I.



Is there any other way for direct democracy to go? What with its admitting no cure for the mischiefs of factions and all.



No, there isn't. There are just nicer ways to put it, like "gone awry," versus less-nice ways to put it, like "a constant clusterfuck of frequently epic proportions, and if I'd wanted my neighbor Bob or those morons upstairs with the loud music they play early in the morning to have the power to make laws for me, I'd have written him/them in on the ballot at the last election--and, as it turns out, I didn't and wouldn't do that, ever. Nothing against Bob personally, of course. Everything against the morons upstairs with the music, though."

gdarklighter

gdarklighter

San Diego, CA
August 2005

JUL 03, 2009 09:45 AM

SergeantPsycho said:

gdarklighter said:

SergeantPsycho said:
The simple answer here is that California needs to cut spending. Yeah it's a simple Sarge-World answer, but let me ask you this:

What exactly are you getting out of California's current spending that people in other states aren't getting from their goverment's not spending as much? That's what I'd like to know. Other states don't seem to be having the same problem as California (or at least not even close to the point that California is). What's California doing wrong here?


California doesn't have a spending problem. Real per capita spending has only increased 2.2% over the last decade. What it has is a revenue problem. Prop 13 has kept corporate property tax artificially low, we're the only oil-extracting state that doesn't charge an extraction fee, and it's practically impossible to increase taxes (although it's dirt easy to reduce them).



If you're spending more money than you have to the point of issuing IOUs, you have a spending problem.


I suspect I know the answer to this, but do you even know the first thing about California politics? The California budget?

meatpieboy

meatpieboy

Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004

JUL 03, 2009 09:54 AM

Necia said:
So far, it looks like Wells Fargo and Bank of America are the only banks accepting the IOUs, and Wells is doing it only for the next seven days. I don't know about B of A.



Idiots! Making more bad loans to lenders with crappy credit! We're just back into the same death spiral!!!

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