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BatAttaK

BatAttaK

Tacoma, WA
OLD SKOOL

DEC 23, 2003 07:31 PM

Un-fucking-believable

Reversing a Clinton-era policy, the Bush administration on Tuesday opened 300,000 more acres of Alaska's Tongass National Forest, the nation's largest, to possible logging or other development.

The administration will allow 3 percent of the forest's 9.3 million acres that were put off-limits to road-building by former President Clinton, to have roads built on them and perhaps opened to use by the timber industry. The Tongass comprises 16.8 million acres.

RACER_X

RACER_X

Philadelphia, PA
February 2003

DEC 23, 2003 07:51 PM

good place to go look for work wink

pharaoh

pharaoh

Los Angeles, CA
August 2002

DEC 23, 2003 08:09 PM

that bush guy is on my fucking shitlist.

-- did saying that just violate any part of the patriot act?

sinisterbhvr

sinisterbhvr

Buffalo, NY
November 2003

DEC 23, 2003 10:11 PM

I'm not surprised, is anyone else?

sketchy1

sketchy1

Dallas, TX
December 2003

DEC 23, 2003 11:05 PM

I am not surprised either. Bush sux.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 24, 2003 12:20 AM

I was all for opening ANWR to oil exploration, since the oil industry provides a lot of great jobs and pays for our state's government (plus there's absolutely nothing on the coastal plain; it's a barren wasteland nothing like the pretty pictures the environmentalists show you). Nothing redeeming or desireable about it except $200 billion worth of petroleum under it.

But the Tongass is different. It's a very beautiful national treaure, my favorite part of Alaska. I hate the thought of it looking like the Pacific northwest's forests from the air, the bald patchwork patterns.

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by stockula]

Jeff_Fries

Jeff_Fries

Humptulips, WA
September 2003

DEC 24, 2003 12:24 AM

Glad to see I didn't sink my savings into splinter futures for nothing.

wigglefree

wigglefree

I'm lost
October 2003

DEC 24, 2003 12:25 AM

Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here

Max16Characters

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of
March 2003

DEC 24, 2003 01:11 AM

well if roads are opened up into a forest doesn't that mean that in the event of a forest fire, fire trucks will be more able to penetrate the lands and put it out?

the reason we are constantly battling nature is not because we have learned from the mistakes of the past, but because we think we have.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 24, 2003 01:18 AM

Max16Characters said:
well if roads are opened up into a forest doesn't that mean that in the event of a forest fire, fire trucks will be more able to penetrate the lands and put it out?



The Tongass is a rainforest, the climate is very soggy. I can't think of there ever being a fire there in my memory.

Max16Characters

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of
March 2003

DEC 24, 2003 01:23 AM

stockula said:

Max16Characters said:
well if roads are opened up into a forest doesn't that mean that in the event of a forest fire, fire trucks will be more able to penetrate the lands and put it out?



The Tongass is a rainforest, the climate is very soggy. I can't think of there ever being a fire there in my memory.



Ok, my bad...i'm drunk but my point still stands for dryer areas of woodlands.

I don't want to see old growth forest disappear...i hope my children will someday be able to see real virgin forest somewhere near their backyard if that's at all possible.

pharaoh

pharaoh

Los Angeles, CA
August 2002

DEC 24, 2003 01:55 AM

wigglefree said:
Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here



HEY WIGGLEFREE, WHAT IF I'M ALREADY TOTALLY VEGAN???

and i use recycled paper as much as possible....

and i recycle everything in sight like a man on a mission...

can i still think it's a shitty plan?

it's not like you can only do one thing to help the earth. there's a lot of different ways to attack the problem of the earth falling apart and becoming a shitheap.

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by pharaoh]

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

DEC 24, 2003 02:12 AM

Max16Characters said:

stockula said:

Max16Characters said:
well if roads are opened up into a forest doesn't that mean that in the event of a forest fire, fire trucks will be more able to penetrate the lands and put it out?



The Tongass is a rainforest, the climate is very soggy. I can't think of there ever being a fire there in my memory.



Ok, my bad...i'm drunk but my point still stands for dryer areas of woodlands.

I don't want to see old growth forest disappear...i hope my children will someday be able to see real virgin forest somewhere near their backyard if that's at all possible.



Me neither. I've plyed the Inside Passage on ferries and cruise ships. I love it love it love it. Rent John Sayles' "Limbo" if you want to see it. It's one of the few movies ABOUT Alaska that was filmed in Alaska. (but it's not that good a movie, boring story).

MisterJesus

MisterJesus

United Kingdom
November 2002

DEC 24, 2003 02:17 AM

pharaoh said:

wigglefree said:
Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here



HEY WIGGLEFREE, WHAT IF I'M ALREADY TOTALLY VEGAN???

and i use recycled paper as much as possible....

and i recycle everything in sight like a man on a mission...

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by pharaoh]



You mean you don't pocket mulch?

I'm a level 5 vegan I won't even eat anything that casts a shadow.

pharaoh

pharaoh

Los Angeles, CA
August 2002

DEC 24, 2003 10:15 AM

MisterJesus said:

pharaoh said:

wigglefree said:
Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here



HEY WIGGLEFREE, WHAT IF I'M ALREADY TOTALLY VEGAN???

and i use recycled paper as much as possible....

and i recycle everything in sight like a man on a mission...

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by pharaoh]



You mean you don't pocket mulch?

I'm a level 5 vegan I won't even eat anything that casts a shadow.



is that a simpsons reference??

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

DEC 24, 2003 11:42 AM

wigglefree said:
Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here



d00d, get a grip. Timber companies aren't using old-growth trees for paper. They get cut for long solid timbers or peeled for veneer, which is much more profitable than pulp.
Since paper is a low-end use - and contains a high percentage of cotton and recycled paper - not a lot of old trees are cut down for paper mills, IIRC.

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by Stiles]

wigglefree

wigglefree

I'm lost
October 2003

DEC 24, 2003 11:47 AM

Stiles said:
d00d, get a grip. Timber companies aren't using old-growth trees for paper. They get cut for long solid timbers or peeled for veneer, which is much more profitable than pulp.
Since paper is a low-end use - and contains a high percentage of cotton and recycled paper - not a lot of old trees are cut down for paper mills, IIRC.
[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by Stiles]



Fine then, DO you live in a fucking house? SUpply and demand baby.

wigglefree

wigglefree

I'm lost
October 2003

DEC 24, 2003 11:49 AM

pharaoh said:

wigglefree said:
Normally I take a more sympathetic perspective but,

HAY HIPPY, DO YOU USE PAPER?

If you wana do something for the environment click here



HEY WIGGLEFREE, WHAT IF I'M ALREADY TOTALLY VEGAN???

and i use recycled paper as much as possible....

and i recycle everything in sight like a man on a mission...

can i still think it's a shitty plan?

it's not like you can only do one thing to help the earth. there's a lot of different ways to attack the problem of the earth falling apart and becoming a shitheap.

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by pharaoh]




Tuche' (translation - I conciede)

dvsskunk

dvsskunk

Westminster, CO
December 2003

DEC 24, 2003 11:51 AM

yeah sure who cares burn rain forests club baby seals you know the works

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

DEC 24, 2003 11:52 AM

Uh, yeah, my house is cinderblock over a concrete slab, with steel doors, sheetrock and fiberglass insulation. There's probably more wood in my christmas tree.

wanna try again?



Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

DEC 24, 2003 11:55 AM

BTW - I'm pointing out that paper is a bad example to blame the cutting of old-growth forests on.

I'm against Bush's opening of old-growth forests to logging.

dvsskunk

dvsskunk

Westminster, CO
December 2003

DEC 24, 2003 11:57 AM

but it isnt a slash and clear operation we need wood where do we get it from?

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

DEC 24, 2003 11:58 AM

wigglefree said:
Fine then, DO you live in a fucking house? SUpply and demand baby.



The correct term for my current dwelling is "A House Of Fucking", thank you.

I love the efforts to pawn off the environmental abuses of major corporations on the behaviors of individual consumers. "Hey, we spilled twenty thousand gallons of oil off the Alaskan shoreline, but you use oil for your motorscooter, so how the fuck can you blame us?"

wigglefree

wigglefree

I'm lost
October 2003

DEC 24, 2003 12:01 PM

Stiles said:
Uh, yeah, my house is cinderblock over a concrete slab, with steel doors, sheetrock and fiberglass insulation. There's probably more wood in my christmas tree.

wanna try again?



I don't know if I can but... Ok.

Old growth forets for fucking x-mas tree farms! I'm from alaska yo! I know first hand, the matter has about as much chance as a slug in a salt mine. Unless you are AMAIZINGLY skilled in organizing and politically powerful, the best I solution I could think of is to change your own behaviour.

wigglefree

wigglefree

I'm lost
October 2003

DEC 24, 2003 12:06 PM

Uncognitive said:
The correct term for my current dwelling is "A House Of Fucking", thank you.



Again I stand corrected, I guess I won't be invited over for the holiday. *sigh



I love the efforts to pawn off the environmental abuses of major corporations on the behaviors of individual consumers. "Hey, we spilled twenty thousand gallons of oil off the Alaskan shoreline, but you use oil for your motorscooter, so how the fuck can you blame us?"



The argument you stated is a non-sensical one. There are many more culpabul factors besides buying fossel fuels. However, it is more rediculs to get angy about these issues, expect the world to change, with out changing your own behaviour THAT PAYS THESE BASTERDS.

If you want to hurt the, hit them the only place they care about, in their pocket book!

[Edited to try and fix quotes]

[Edited on Dec 24, 2003 by wigglefree]

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